Nene McDonald - This isn't going to be popular!

Discussion in 'St George Illawarra Dragons' started by RedV Resurgence, Dec 28, 2017.

  1. Walpole

    Walpole Juniors

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    Valentine Holmes? Damn, if he ran with the passion of an old lady after a boxing day special I'd be happy!
     
  2. Coffs dragon

    Coffs dragon Juniors

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    I tend to agree with OTs opinion on NENE which must stand for: Nil Effort No Exertion.
    Flo maybe slow but at least he puts in 110% effort and is fully committed displaying characteristics like Heart & Soul
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  3. possm

    possm First Grade

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    There is much in what you say that I agree with. The problem we have is that the squad we have is what we have right now and the young guns coming through are exactly that; they are still coming through. Given that Mary is very conservative when it comes to 'bringing through' young guns, I am very much afraid it will be a case of wasting another year, persisting with those who just aren't putting in a full effort and looking for our young guns to kill it in reserve grade before promoting them.

    My view is that the 2017 form of players. together with their achievements in the off-season, should be the guide for selection during 2018. There is no real upside in picking favourites as is currently the case. For me the ideal situation would be to start with Dufty at the back, Mann and Lafai in the centres and two new young guns on the wings; most probably Lomax and one other. This would be our best option for introducing speed into our backline.

    As far as Aitken, Nightingale and Macdonald are concerned, I'd be inclined to start them in reserve grade, telling them they need to improve substantially in the areas they are deficient if they wish to hold down a first grade spot. My opinion of these players is based solely on form and repeated defensive deficiencies during the 2017 season; especially the last half of the season. Unfortunately, Nightingale does not have much control over his current deficiencies, he has lost speed which together with Mary's compressed defensive plan, has him fighting to keep up with the play and unable to nullify the long bull or deep kick to opposition wingers hugging the sideline.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  4. Carlton

    Carlton Juniors

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    I find Nene a bit of an enigma, he has size and speed and when he was younger he did run hard and use those attributes. When I watch him bring the ball back it's like he has been told his job is to get defenders into the tackle, don't get pushed back and slow the play the ball until the attack can get back.

    When he runs it back he invariably picks out a defender and runs straight at them and then turns it into a wrestle. Even doing this he still shows great strength but I am not 100% sure that it is all his own idea. In fact I think some of the "indifference" he seems to display could be that he is not really happy with the role he has to play.
     
  5. kit66

    kit66 Juniors

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    I thought I'd heard it all the other day when someone wanted to make Nightie a bench hooker but now we're sending him to reserves to pick up his game, ( love your work possm but you're stretching it here matey ).
    If all our players had Nighties work ethic and commitment we'd rarely lose a game. Not only was he our top try scorer he also helped our tiring forward every week by coming in and doing the hard yards to give them a break and contributed simply by keeping his error rate low and also by getting away plenty of quality off loads. His stats alone put him in the the top 10 wingers in the game but it's his professionalism and experience that keeps him in the run on side. He's not the fastest but he's safe, reliable and a great finisher. 16 tries is a good effort, forum favourites like V.Holmes scored 6, Dugan 3, B.Morris 6.
    Unless you have a Radradra or Addo Carr lined up, I'd stick with Nightie any day.
    Here's some stats, knock yourselves out.
    https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/stats/players?sortBy=tackles&position=winger
     
  6. kit66

    kit66 Juniors

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    Great points you make. It's overlooked sometimes that players are just doing what they're told. It's the same with our compressed defence and our wingers and centres seemingly misjudging and coming in when they should've stayed out. They're just following the coach's instructions and when they get caught in the wrong place it's either because they or a team mate played to instinct rather than coaching ( and stayed out wide for example ) and the holes appear.
    You also have smart opposition coaches and players that know how and when to exploit that kind of defence. If you can put a player in two minds it's a safe bet he let his instinct take over and their "structure" goes out the window.
    Having said that, our defence last year was 6th best ( better earlier in the year too ). With a little tweaking and trust between our players there's no reason we can't improve that dramatically. It's actually a good defensive structure when executed properly.
     
  7. SEAT 1A

    SEAT 1A Juniors

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    Agree, coaching staff should be able to influence Nene to perform at his best as he is a young first grader however, seem off the pace at times and goes through the motions during the game.

    He follows instructions when running from dummy half, makes good meters and is difficult to bring down though.
     
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  8. Belta

    Belta Juniors

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    Dragon said; "...Imagine if Nene returned the ball with the vigour of Val Holmes!"

    I had this exact thought myself.
     
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  9. BennyV

    BennyV Coach

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    On Aitken - he is a tremendous athlete, strong, quick and supremely fit. Unfortunately, he seems to be lacking a bit of football IQ. He doesnt seems to have the natural instinct to know when to adjust his line or sidestep, lacks some basic ballskills and despite being a good tackler, he is unable to make reads and decisions in defence. (In fact, I can see why Saint Jimmy is such a fan, given his pull towards Mitch Rein who also lacked footy intellegence despite great physical assets). I think it was Fittler who mentioned that he often looks like an U8s player who just grabs the ball and tucks in under one arm and tries to run through/around opposition.

    I'm willing to give him a bit of leeway considering the idiots who have coached him and the poor excuses for halfbacks who have been feeding him (when he gets a bit of space between him and the defense he can look dangerous) but with 50 FG games under his belt he needs to bump up a level fast, because he's got some very talented youngsters breathing down his neck.
     
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  10. giboz71

    giboz71 Bench

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    Nene faded badly towards the end of the season. He started great and his dummy half runs to start the year were awesome. And his try against the Roosters in ANZAC day was brilliant, I thought we had found the winger we always needed.

    Not sure what happened after that?? But anyone who seemingly laid a hand on him in the process of scoring, he’d go flying into the crowd like a 75 kilo lightweight.
     
  11. 2010Dragons

    2010Dragons Bench

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    Seriously, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Nene has the height and looks like Tarzan BUT plays like Jane, slowing down before he hits the defensive line, skips and hops every time he runs from DH.
    He has hands like feet. Also, Nene is a slow runner. Tariq Sims beat Nene is a sprint race !
     
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  12. Pro Dragons

    Pro Dragons Juniors

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    Agreed, I think Dugan with an informed Widdop and feeding off Hunt's long range passing would of had him at his best.
     
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  13. Saint_JimmyG

    Saint_JimmyG Juniors

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    Personally, I feel Dugan's 'metre returns' and defence are areas that Dufty will be exposed in this season.
     
  14. MILEY CYRUS

    MILEY CYRUS Juniors

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    If Nene is slow, whatdoes that make Nightingale?
     
  15. possm

    possm First Grade

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    Hopefully form during the trials will answer a lot of questions.
     
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  16. 2010

    2010 Juniors

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    Nene has probably suffered by not having a decent kicker to utilise his height. If that is rectified by Hunt kicking then that’s a plus but he still lacks the speed that other teams wingers have.
    Nightingale is one of my favourite players. You can’t deny he gives it all every game.
    He needs to step aside to give our juniors a chance to see how they go.
    McIdiot is going to be tested once again in handling the transition of the juniors and the bench.
    I don’t have any confidence that he will handle that
     
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  17. denis preston

    denis preston Bench

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    How many had he scored in the two years previously? How many from more than 20 meters out ? How many times was he burned on the outside and on kick chases ? How many times was he turned on his back in take ups ? If we are to show anything different to our opponents next season it has got to start with new personnel. Playing safe may get us to the 8 but it certainly won't get us a top 4 berth.
     
  18. kit66

    kit66 Juniors

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    Fair enough but instead of a lot of questions how about some answers. You can't just drop our top try scorer, and one of our most experienced players without a better option to replace him. By better option I mean a dedicated winger, not a fill in backline utility like Mann or even Field but someone we can put there and leave there all year and who performs at least as well or, to please you, better than Nightie.
    Like I said, unless you have a Radradra or Addo Carr lined up there's not much point. I'm not against promoting one of our kids but now that we have a real reserve grade where those kids can test themselves against men why not leave Nightie there until someone shows he's up for the job.
     
  19. TruSaint

    TruSaint Coach

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    Its interesting that people are having a dig at Flo based on his speed.

    Granted i think his time is over and we will see 2018 as his farewell. But lets be serious, Jason was never fast.

    Please show me a clip of him running 60-70 metres to score like a Blacklock / Morris. etc

    Yet he was a game winner. Always finding the line, always doing the hard shite that others wont.

    Always tackling his heart out, diffusing a bomb, moving to Fb when need be. Always 1st chosen for club and NZ.

    LIke someone said, until we find a suitable replacement , please chose to direct your dismay at others whom have held a mortgage on position based on reputation. Im all for Flo leaving and may he leave on a high note, but to use "speed', an acquisition he never had as an excuse is just plain wrong.

    Nene got through 2017 on reputation and hope. He delivered very little. Any other club would have dropped him mid stream. Maybe thats what he needs to show his real potential as we did with Lafai. We also dropped Mann, who has come back better than ever.

    PS the 2 tries he scored on the 2010 GF were close range, but worth 4 points non the less, and needed a cool head, skill, and finishing.
     
  20. Saint_JimmyG

    Saint_JimmyG Juniors

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    Good post.

    Nightingale's perceived lack of speed has not been a major issue for me either. I've probably said this previously, but I feel his best games in 2017 were at fullback where speed is normally considered a necessity.

    It wouldn't surprise me if Nightingale is in the number one jumper by the halfway point this upcoming season.
     
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