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NFL style Division System in the NRL

Hello, I'm The Doctor

First Grade
Messages
9,124
I hate this idea. How can you be the best in the comp when you only play certain teams. That's why I think the Super Bowl is stupid- champions of 2 comps play off...

The comp isnt about finding the best team (if it was, the Minor Premiership would be the main prize). Its about entertaining people with the contest...

I think Divisions would really add to this in terms of rivalries. If the comp was broken into divisions and the the Preliminary finals fought within these to get a Division champion (to then go on to a Top 4 with the other division champions), the rivalries within the Divisions would be huge!!

And the GF will then have a wider spread of teams; the biggest GFs arent the close rivalries (the GF is already big enough an event), they are between teams from different states (obviously you get the wider spread of interest when youve go teams from different cities competing).

Also, you would give more neutral fans an angle for excitement. Either people think "I want my division to win to prove ours is the toughest" or theyll think "f*ck the side that knocked my team out, i want to see them lose". More people will have a way to become personally attached to the final games even once their team is gone.

(I think it would also be a benefit to give more teams bragging rights each season. Maybe they dont win the comp, but they are Division champions. Just something to keep more fans interested and hopeful)
 

Hello, I'm The Doctor

First Grade
Messages
9,124
Conference usually build very intense rivalries but its very hard to say they make the competition fairer. It is highly likely that a team with a good record will miss out to team with a very poor record at least once every few years or so.

Even if this happened, it would only be comparable to 9th place making it in over 8th in the current comp...

2 teams that will probably lose anyway; and im positive you could go back and find some unfair structure that caused 9ths the lose a game or 2 mid season.

We will NEVER have a perfectly fair comp. We should be focused on making the comp the most ENTERTAINING it can be.

(In the long run, every unfair disadvantage will be repaid with some advantage somewhere else)
 

myrrh ken

First Grade
Messages
9,817
2 divisions.

8 Sydney teams (stains to be based in Wollongong) in one

8 non Sydney teams in the other

Done

It would actually overcome the unfairness Suburban teams face against one city clubs
 
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POPEYE

Coach
Messages
11,397
Even if this happened, it would only be comparable to 9th place making it in over 8th in the current comp...

2 teams that will probably lose anyway; and im positive you could go back and find some unfair structure that caused 9ths the lose a game or 2 mid season.

We will NEVER have a perfectly fair comp. We should be focused on making the comp the most ENTERTAINING it can be.

(In the long run, every unfair disadvantage will be repaid with some advantage somewhere else)
You want a fair comp . . . increase the teams to 20 and they play each other once.

While you're at it have one of the teams owned by the ESL, give the Poms the same chance NZ has
 

Hello, I'm The Doctor

First Grade
Messages
9,124
You want a fair comp . . . increase the teams to 20 and they play each other once.

While you're at it have one of the teams owned by the ESL, give the Poms the same chance NZ has

Who gets home field advantage?
What time of year are they playing? (maybe one side deals better in the heat, maybe one side is more effected by Origin fatigue)
What happens if 1 team has a 5 day turn-around and the other has and 8 day break?
What if its raining and only one team brought their long spikes?

The comp will NEVER be perfectly even (make a demand like "everyone plays each other once" or "everyone plays Home-Away-Home-Away-etc." and you forfeit the power to influence other things; turn-arounds between matches, derby matches, byes). Sport is fundamentally unequal, just accept that.

Forget making the game EVEN, make it INTERESTING......
 

Hello, I'm The Doctor

First Grade
Messages
9,124
There really is only 2 conferences

Sydney v Regional

My preference is a 20 team comp split into 4 groups of 5 teams...

Take the top 3 teams from each comp and have them play off (2nd V 3rd, Winner V 1st) for the Division Championship. Then have the 4 Division Champions play off in qualifiers and a GF.

We ensure that the first 8 games of every finals series will be huge rivalries and the last 3 games (big enough events to not need rivalries) will have teams spread from across the country to bring wide audiences.

And the regular season games between teams in the same division will probably grow to be huge events in themselves...
 

juro

Bench
Messages
3,791
If I was going with divisions, I'd keep it to 2, at least in the beginning. For the sake of the split, have it south and north.

South:
Warriors
Storm
Raiders
Dragons
Sharks
Souths
Bulldogs
Wests

North:
Cowboys
Broncos
Titans
Knights
Sea Eagles
Eels
Panthers
Roosters

Play each team in your own division twice, and each team in other division once (alternating home and away every other year). That gives 22 games for the season.

If you want to go down the path the NFL does, give the top 3 teams from each division entry to the finals, plus 2 wildcards. Or just stick with the current system.

Having too many divisions would hamper expansion (how would we react if some divisions had 4 and some divisions had 5 teams?). Mind you, expansion is too hard with one division...

If it all works out, in 10 years time, we could move to splitting into more divisions. Let it evolve.
 

POPEYE

Coach
Messages
11,397
Who gets home field advantage?
What time of year are they playing? (maybe one side deals better in the heat, maybe one side is more effected by Origin fatigue)
What happens if 1 team has a 5 day turn-around and the other has and 8 day break?
What if its raining and only one team brought their long spikes?

The comp will NEVER be perfectly even (make a demand like "everyone plays each other once" or "everyone plays Home-Away-Home-Away-etc." and you forfeit the power to influence other things; turn-arounds between matches, derby matches, byes). Sport is fundamentally unequal, just accept that.

Forget making the game EVEN, make it INTERESTING......
Not that home field advantage means anything if you're supposedly a professional footballer but if you can't give every team the advantage of 'home' games one year give it to them the next

Nothing is perfect, least of all your bullshit argument. Closer to perfect is that there be 19 rounds with 20 teams, including one from England with the one from NZ we already have . . . add Perth, Ipswich and one from Fiji for all I care

The Poms we already have here might jump ship to play with an 'ESL' team and there'd be enough good'uns capable of relocating in Australia for the season given the money being thrown around . . . the team doesn't have to be made up entirely of Poms just as the Warriors aren't all NZ'ers

All hypothetical mind you as long as there's naysayer wankers like you around but I'm only pointing out 'fairness'. Fairness to England if their players are all NRL hardened, fairness to teams competing for the Shield if there's a decent Origin/International/ Exhibition break, fairness to players trying to recover from injuries

Players that are selected to play in the interval games should be the best, getting paid the most and should earn it . . . nevertheless, no players or clubs will have to endure the lopsided 'unfair' strain they're asked to now
 

POPEYE

Coach
Messages
11,397
My preference is a 20 team comp split into 4 groups of 5 teams...

Take the top 3 teams from each comp and have them play off (2nd V 3rd, Winner V 1st) for the Division Championship. Then have the 4 Division Champions play off in qualifiers and a GF.

We ensure that the first 8 games of every finals series will be huge rivalries and the last 3 games (big enough events to not need rivalries) will have teams spread from across the country to bring wide audiences.

And the regular season games between teams in the same division will probably grow to be huge events in themselves...
More bullshit . . . the rivalry between your dicks might be constant but in RL they're rarely even
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,546
Last time we had a 20 team comp

It was 4 groups of 5 based upon prior positions on the table the year before
 

unforgiven

Bench
Messages
3,138
Even if this happened, it would only be comparable to 9th place making it in over 8th in the current comp...

2 teams that will probably lose anyway; and im positive you could go back and find some unfair structure that caused 9ths the lose a game or 2 mid season.

We will NEVER have a perfectly fair comp. We should be focused on making the comp the most ENTERTAINING it can be.

(In the long run, every unfair disadvantage will be repaid with some advantage somewhere else)

It is not like 9th getting in instead of 8th, its the side with the equal worst record in the entire NRL making the finals. That is far worse than the inequality we have now.
 

POPEYE

Coach
Messages
11,397
Last time we had a 20 team comp

It was 4 groups of 5 based upon prior positions on the table the year before
Doesn't matter how many are in the comp ol' mate as long as everyone plays the rest the same number of times. The team I favour most is doing quite well no matter who Origin and the lopside number of games f**ks over . . . I'm happy being here to push a few buttons

If anyone thinks RL isn't interesting Ch9 has Netball
 

TheFrog

Coach
Messages
14,300
The comp isnt about finding the best team (if it was, the Minor Premiership would be the main prize).
I'm not sure I agree with your logic. The best teams rise for the biggest games. If every game is of equal value the big game abilities of teams are not tested.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,420
It is not like 9th getting in instead of 8th, its the side with the equal worst record in the entire NRL making the finals. That is far worse than the inequality we have now.

Never happens with the NFL conference system so not sure why you would think it would here. Is it possible? sure but highly unlikely. the use of wildcards for non top conference team with best record also helps mitigate the risk.
 

unforgiven

Bench
Messages
3,138
Never happens with the NFL conference system so not sure why you would think it would here. Is it possible? sure but highly unlikely. the use of wildcards for non top conference team with best record also helps mitigate the risk.

Because the way you look at these things is to look at the worst possible outcome. Yes it is highly unlikely but the dumb system you guys are pushing has the potential for the team with the equal worse record in the competition to make the finals. Its actually possible under this system for a side to win 7 games from 26 and win the entire competition. Why would we implement a system that has that possibility? even if it is extremely unlikely.

Please explain to me why we should be happy with a system that allows a 7 and 19 team to win the comp?

I also don't care if it has never happened in the NFL, I am as big an NFL fan as anyone here. I actively support an NFL team as much as I support my NRL team, but that does not mean that we should adopt everything they do. I used to like the idea conferences and the rivalries they create, AFCN conference games are intense, but the disadvantages far out way the advantages for the NRL. The NFL have no choice as there are more teams than games played so they are hamstrung and use an inferior model to most other sporting leagues.
 
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Messages
21,783
id do it like this. split it into 4 divisions and split via region. so each division gets a QLD or NZ team. Then each gets one of Canberra, Melbourne, Newcastle and St George Illawarra. Then 4 West Sydney teams. then the remaining Sydney teams.

Division 1
Broncos
St George
Wests
Souths


Division 2
Cowboys
Newcastle
Parra
Roosters

Division 3
Gold Coast
Canberra
Panthers
Manly

Division 4
Warriors
Melbourne
Bulldogs
Cronulla

You play Your division at home and away so that's 6 games.
You play everyone else once, and these games alternate each year so one year you get the home game the next year you get away.
You then play 18 games. Bye weeks for Origin.

So for arguments sake the sharks would have a schedule of

9 home games vs Warriors, Melbourne, Dogs, Panthers ,Gold Coast, Parra, Newcastle, Souths, Dragons
9 Away games vs Warriors, Melbourne, Dogs, Manly, Canberra, Roosters, Cowboys , Broncos , Wests

the drawback of this is less derbies. but anyway.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,420
Because the way you look at these things is to look at the worst possible outcome. Yes it is highly unlikely but the dumb system you guys are pushing has the potential for the team with the equal worse record in the competition to make the finals. Its actually possible under this system for a side to win 7 games from 26 and win the entire competition. Why would we implement a system that has that possibility? even if it is extremely unlikely.

Please explain to me why we should be happy with a system that allows a 7 and 19 team to win the comp?

I also don't care if it has never happened in the NFL, I am as big an NFL fan as anyone here. I actively support an NFL team as much as I support my NRL team, but that does not mean that we should adopt everything they do. I used to like the idea conferences and the rivalries they create, AFCN conference games are intense, but the disadvantages far out way the advantages for the NRL. The NFL have no choice as there are more teams than games played so they are hamstrung and use an inferior model to most other sporting leagues.

Its called risk management, how high is the potential impact of the risk and how likely is it to happen. Given the chances for it happening are so low it is worth the risk taken.
End of day this is all hypothetical and only really becomes an issue if NRL expands to 20 teams but as most of us will be dead before that happens I don't think we need to lose sleep over it!
 

unforgiven

Bench
Messages
3,138
Its called risk management, how high is the potential impact of the risk and how likely is it to happen. Given the chances for it happening are so low it is worth the risk taken.
End of day this is all hypothetical and only really becomes an issue if NRL expands to 20 teams but as most of us will be dead before that happens I don't think we need to lose sleep over it!

No many here are proposing to do it with the 16 team competition we have now, I can't really see an argument for doing it unless we have more teams than we have games. If we get to 20 teams I could see an argument for having conference to determine which teams play twice but I'd still do the table over the entire competition.

The funny thing is, that those proposing this do not realise that the teams in an NFL division to not play the same teams over the course of the season. Their schedule is based on the position they finished in their division the previous year, so the team in 4th plays the easier schedule when compared to the team in 1st.

The NFL system is not about creating a fairer schedule, its about maximising rivalries and allowing 32 teams to compete in a competition that has each team playing 16 regular season games. We can do all that without a conference or divisional system.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,168
It is not like 9th getting in instead of 8th, its the side with the equal worst record in the entire NRL making the finals. That is far worse than the inequality we have now.

The problem that we have with the system now as is (as likely to occur as the problem you are worrying about) is that one team could win every regular season game they play and every other team could have the exact same win loss record as the other teams and thus only win, what, half their games. Then a team with only 10 wins (same as the team that came last) could go on to win the comp - against the team that won all their games. So really the present system is like a bomb waiting to explode. That so unfair. Lets go to minor premiers takes all EPL style.

Except that, wait, finals rate well and draw good crowds....so stuff that. And stuff your hypothetic fear mongering. There may be good arguments against going to conferences but yours isn't one of them.
 

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