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NRL Expansion. Ideas and opinions.

Who would you admit as the next team into the NRL?

  • Perth

    Votes: 75 57.7%
  • PNG

    Votes: 8 6.2%
  • Wellington/2nd NZ team

    Votes: 5 3.8%
  • Adelaide

    Votes: 6 4.6%
  • Darwin

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Fiji

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Central Coast

    Votes: 10 7.7%
  • Central Queensland/4th Queensland team

    Votes: 12 9.2%
  • Samoa

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Other (please specify)/No Expansion

    Votes: 12 9.2%

  • Total voters
    130
Messages
21,867
Well the new parramatta stadium is going to have the best drip line in Australian sports, so it’ll be interesting to see what happens there.

To me the full roof is more needed for the big venues, for concerts.

So if you’re not going to have a full roof this is the next best thing.


3EA1D83A-C6B9-43B9-A904-48130DC772A3.jpeg
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,920
Well the new parramatta stadium is going to have the best drip line in Australian sports, so it’ll be interesting to see what happens there.

To me the full roof is more needed for the big venues, for concerts.

So if you’re not going to have a full roof this is the next best thing.


View attachment 18848

Will make a nice change, I have yet to visit an Australian stadium with stand roofs that actually cover all the seats. I know it doesn't rain as much as UK but geez would an extra few metres of roof width actually cost that much? Even in the new Perth stadium the other week it looks like the roof only covers about 75% of seating.

At the redeveloped nib stand I've worked out from experience anything below row M your going to get wet, that would be about 30-40% of the stand!
 
Messages
21,867
Will make a nice change, I have yet to visit an Australian stadium with stand roofs that actually cover all the seats. I know it doesn't rain as much as UK but geez would an extra few metres of roof width actually cost that much? Even in the new Perth stadium the other week it looks like the roof only covers about 75% of seating.

At the redeveloped nib stand I've worked out from experience anything below row M your going to get wet, that would be about 30-40% of the stand!

It’s not just a cost issue but also an issue for grass growth. The wider the roof the more sun it blocks out.

Dare say the improvement in pitch technologies with the weaving in of artificial fibres helps, also if you notice with the parramatta roof the last few meters is clear, allowing sun to pass through. That clear part can also block UV as grass doesn’t need UV to grow.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,311
Western Tiger (Perth relocation) 2020
Brisbane Two (new) 2020
Auckland Two (new) 2022
Wellington Sea Eagles (relocation) 2022
 

Springs09

Juniors
Messages
1,903
Western Tiger (Perth relocation) 2020
Brisbane Two (new) 2020
Auckland Two (new) 2022
Wellington Sea Eagles (relocation) 2022

How about we don't have any relocations

It's effectively killing two clubs. If the Tigers move to Perth we're practically killing the Balmain/Wests merger and losing their fans while also killing the Pirates bid. What's the point?
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,311
How about we don't have any relocations

It's effectively killing two clubs. If the Tigers move to Perth we're practically killing the Balmain/Wests merger and losing their fans while also killing the Pirates bid. What's the point?

We need relocation to get less Sydney teams because Sydney has too many teams.
The Pirates aren't a club they are a concept. Anyone who was going to support the Pirates will be supporting the Tigers.
 

Spanner in the works

First Grade
Messages
6,073
This is an update to something I said earlier, but my ideal scenario would be:

Next two years
Expansion side 1: Wellington
Expansion side 2: Perth

The establishment of Wellington and Perth would help secure a better TV deal through increased time slots, providing a revenue boost for expansion at the end of the next TV deal. Wellington would provide competition to Rugby and the Warriors.

End of next TV deal
Expansion side 3: Brisbane 2
Expansion side 4: Joint Pacific first grade side
(Pacific nations reserve grade sides).

A second Brisbane side would provide additional competition in the Queensland market.

Rather than an individual PNG/Fiji/Tonga/Samoa/etc side, I'd like to see the establishment of a Joint Pacific side based out of Port Moresby or Fiji, which takes in players from all these nations, but also has some Australian/Kiwi players. The idea behind this would be to establish the initial governance/infrastructure/profile etc required to run a first grade side in a major competition, with a view to setting in place the standards required for individual sides in PNG/Fiji/etc.

To that end, and to support the Joint Pacific side, individual nations would establish reserve grade sides that form part of the national reserve grade comp in the NRL, with players from each of those individual sides feeding into the Joint Pacific side. This would essentially 1) support the success of the Joint side and 2) create a pipeline of teams that as they reach maturity, they become viable options for joining the first grade comp as their own individual side.

Around 2020-25 and commencement of relevant new TV deal
Expansion side 5: Fiji or PNG
Expansion side 6: Adelaide

In relation to Fiji or PNG, both options open up new international markets, but in line with the above, appear to be the most mature options in the Pacific.

Adelaide is a direct attack on AFL.

2025 onwards (and end of relevant TV deal)
Depends on the game's growth. Options could include a second Melbourne or Perth side, a Darwin side or a Central Queensland side. I'm less and less inclined to see a Central Coast side each day that passes, but monitoring how the AFL expands could change this.
I'd also like to see from now (with a view to future expansion):
  • At least two games per round taken interstate (one game) and overseas (one game, within the region), with a view to potential expansion 20-25 years down the track (or beyond). Options could include Tasmania, Indonesia (massive potential market with a huge economy and population base), the Pacific nations, into Japan with their interest in Rugby, Darwin, Adelaide, and others.
  • When the NRL returns to profitability, expected to be this year with a $40 million surplus, establish a ongoing, sustainable, grants program run by the ARLC for grassroots clubs and competitions, with a view to establishing a strong set of feeder clubs for the national competition, along with a long-term purpose of creating a pipeline of clubs for potential expansion. Grants would be assessed against key criteria, to ensure money is not wasted, with two streams available:
    • Club Futures Stream: Available for investing in physical assets that will support the sustainability, attractability, and financial viability of clubs. Projects will need to demonstrate a return on investment to the ARLC and applicant. Return on investment will ideally be financial (i.e. get your money back), but might include securing enough players to have an u-16 side; training and skills development equipment; refurbishment of on-ground infrastructure such as sheds and spectator facilities; etc.
    • Competition Futures Stream: Available for the development of strategic plans or capability development plans that will support the sustainability and growth of local competitions. Examples might include the preparation of a competition-wide governance framework; preparation of an ongoing, strategic recruitment and diversification plan, which will be actioned by on-ground NSWRL/QRL/CRL/etc representatives; or the development of a skills development plan for identified gaps in the competition's staff/volunteers, such as budgeting.
      • (In relation to the last example, if a competition identifies the need for skills training, the club can approach the ARLC for a grant to pay for this training under the Club Futures Stream, as long as the proposal stacks up)
  • The establishment of on-ground NRL offices in PNG, Fiji, Samoa, Indonesia and other locations to help promote the code overseas. Promotion could include the provision of grant money to projects local clubs propose that will improve playing infrastructure (e.g. a new storage shed or irrigating a field); arranging current and former stars to meet with local teams and business owners; arranging attendance for senior executives to attend games in Australia; identifying sponsorship options; providing information packs, fact sheets, rule books, coaching guides etc to locals planning to establish new clubs or in need of help for their own club; etc.
  • An open opportunity for expansion sides to join the u20s comp, as long as they can prove they are viable. This would be good exposure for clubs and will help them get structures in place for a first grade side;
  • The creation of a national reserve grade competition (which includes the teams above).
 

BuderusIsaBeast

Juniors
Messages
554
I think the reality is there are to many teams in Sydney. Unfortunately I can’t see anyone making the hard call to relocate any. The less teams in Sydney the more space for expansion teams in Perth, Brisbane 2, NZ 2 and Adelaide
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
5,353
Would relocations of Sydney clubs to Gosford and Wollongong help? Say, Roosters and Dragons? Its takes two clubs out of Sydney but still keeps the iconic brands in the NRL. There fans can still see them play plenty of (away) games in Sydney. The two clubs could even work with the NRL to sell away game memberships to their Sydney based fans and hold a 'heritage' fixture each year at Allianz - the ANZAC day match against each other. They also remain NSW clubs.

This might be a solution that causes the least amount of damage in Sydney. But allow the bigger clubs room to grow into super-clubs
 

greenBV4

Bench
Messages
2,508
Would relocations of Sydney clubs to Gosford and Wollongong help? Say, Roosters and Dragons? Its takes two clubs out of Sydney but still keeps the iconic brands in the NRL. There fans can still see them play plenty of (away) games in Sydney. The two clubs could even work with the NRL to sell away game memberships to their Sydney based fans and hold a 'heritage' fixture each year at Allianz - the ANZAC day match against each other.
If there is going to be a reduction to the number of Sydney teams relocations are definitely the way to go as opposed to dropping teams and adding in completely new ones

Passionate fans can still follow their team, and as there would be a lot of teams still left in Sydney there would be plenty of away games they could attend, there is no reason for the relocated sides not to maintain a fan base in Sydney like South Melbourne and Fitzroy have in Melbourne in the AFL

Its a touchy subject and choosing which teams would be located would be hard (most likely the NRL should offer incentives for clubs to willingly choose to), but it is the only feasible option for expansion and a true "national" competition, I don't think the NRL can sustain 20 teams, and that limits the number of expansion areas to only 2 without relocations.

This might be a solution that causes the least amount of damage in Sydney. But allow the bigger clubs room to grow into super-clubs
also this, I don't see any of the existing Sydney clubs growing to become any bigger than they currently are in terms of recognition, memberships and supporter bases without giving the "bigger" clubs more room to grow
 

Springs09

Juniors
Messages
1,903
We need relocation to get less Sydney teams because Sydney has too many teams.
The Pirates aren't a club they are a concept. Anyone who was going to support the Pirates will be supporting the Tigers.

No, the West Coast Pirates play in the S.G. Ball competition. If they are just a concept then who are the players signed for?

There's no point relocating. If there are too many teams in Sydney then cut a few. You won't get many tigers fans staying on when their team is playing out of Perth, nor would Sea Eagles fans stick around when their team is based in NZ.
 

Springs09

Juniors
Messages
1,903
Would relocations of Sydney clubs to Gosford and Wollongong help? Say, Roosters and Dragons? Its takes two clubs out of Sydney but still keeps the iconic brands in the NRL. There fans can still see them play plenty of (away) games in Sydney. The two clubs could even work with the NRL to sell away game memberships to their Sydney based fans and hold a 'heritage' fixture each year at Allianz - the ANZAC day match against each other. They also remain NSW clubs.

This might be a solution that causes the least amount of damage in Sydney. But allow the bigger clubs room to grow into super-clubs

Well the Dragons are already effectively relocated to Wollongong, but with half their games at Kogarah.

Maybe if Dragons extended their games at Wollongong to 8, and the Roosters could do the same at the Central Coast, with 4 games at Allianz against traditional Sydney rivals. 'East Coast Roosters' or something so they retain their traditional nickname 'Easts'.

That could work, but I don't think relocation to the other side of the country would. You would lose the fanbase in Sydney without gaining a significant fanbase in Perth. Souths fans in Perth might switch to an authentic Perth side, but I'd say they are unlikely to start following the Tigers.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,311
There's no point relocating. If there are too many teams in Sydney then cut a few. You won't get many tigers fans staying on when their team is playing out of Perth, nor would Sea Eagles fans stick around when their team is based in NZ.

It has worked reasonably well in the AFL with the Swans. They have thousands of South Melbourne fans.
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
5,353
Give all clubs a fair go under the current funding arrangements and with the new stadia once built. If a club still struggles or falls over, then maybe we have to accept that, that particular club is not big / popular enough for the NRL in the Sydney market. The NRL can then look to relocate that club to Adelaide or NZ (Brisbane won't accept a NSW team and Perth already have the Pirates).

This keeps the brand alive, reduces the oversaturation in Sydney and gives an NRL licence to an expansion area without adding extra teams.

All Adelaide or NZ 2 would have to do initially is hit the average attendances of the failed Sydney club around 12 - 13k. TV ratings for the relocated club will be made up of a mixture of their hard core Sydney fans and new fans in their new location. Given support and time to grow, they will have a greater potential for growth than they would have had in the Sydney market.
 

mistertaylor

Juniors
Messages
409
I'm all for expansion but have consistently believed that Brisbane 2 and Perth should be the first two locations for any new/relocated franchises.

As for Adelaide - I don't really understand the appeal tbh. Is there enough support on the ground in ADL to average 7k+ home crowds? What kind of corporate support would an ADL team attract? Even the new timezone does little to add any appeal, as they're only half hour behind the eastern seaboard.

MT
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,563
With modern society being as soft as it is it won’t hurt to have a full roof. And generally the game is a better spectacle in the dry.

And while your add it just give the season ticket holders a nice new $3,000 plasma and a $800 cinema style couch

That will work well in their lounge room

It will save $400k on rebuilding the SFS

I think I should start writing a business case for the goverment on a new stadium policy and my offer services as a pilot customer

Should be able to also charge $100k in consulting fees

Win-win
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,563
We need relocation to get less Sydney teams because Sydney has too many teams.
The Pirates aren't a club they are a concept. Anyone who was going to support the Pirates will be supporting the Tigers.

Why does everyone think Sydney has too many teams

Hasnt been a issue for 111 years

In fact no new teams haveen added to Sydney for 50 years

What was Sydneys population back then ? It was 2.4 mil

How many today 5 mil plus and growing

Technical Sydney can accomodate more teams

And lets renember back then 12 clubs ean 3 grades and 3 junior grades. And Sydney also had a NSW Cup style 2 grade second Division
 

greenBV4

Bench
Messages
2,508
Why does everyone think Sydney has too many teams

Hasnt been a issue for 111 years

In fact no new teams haveen added to Sydney for 50 years

What was Sydneys population back then ? It was 2.4 mil

How many today 5 mil plus and growing

Technical Sydney can accomodate more teams

And lets renember back then 12 clubs ean 3 grades and 3 junior grades. And Sydney also had a NSW Cup style 2 grade second Division

The way I see it is Sydney could keep the number of teams and nothing will happen, but thats the issue, the game wont grow and expand..

I don't think the NRL can sustain 20 teams, so that means that IF they did want to expand into Perth, Bris 2, NZ 2 and Adelaide (for example), at least 2 existing teams need to go (or relocate)..

You could also argue that by reducing the number of Sydney team the remaining teams could grow to become "super-clubs" OVER TIME - obviously the current fans of the clubs would be pissed off and rightly so, but over time the new generations wont even know the difference. If the NRL is serious about expansion they need to consider the future and not the present

For now though I think 18 teams can be sustained and the first 2 expansions areas need to be chosen ASAP so they can be prepared to join the comp, and then the issue of how the next 2 expansion teams are added can be considered
 
Last edited:

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,920
Why does everyone think Sydney has too many teams

Hasnt been a issue for 111 years

In fact no new teams haveen added to Sydney for 50 years

What was Sydneys population back then ? It was 2.4 mil

How many today 5 mil plus and growing

Technical Sydney can accomodate more teams

And lets renember back then 12 clubs ean 3 grades and 3 junior grades. And Sydney also had a NSW Cup style 2 grade second Division

Back then getting 3000 people to games and having a revenue of $5000 was also ok for the clubs! Times change, sports now a business, big business in fact. 10,000 crowds and revenue of $14mill isn't going to cut it. Time is now for all clubs to get their houses on order and grow their fanbase or get out. No more excuses, they have the profile, money, media coverage and soon stadia for most of them. Move up or move out.
 

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