NRL mismanagement?

[BuffaloRules]

It doesn't seem like that at all. From nearly the moment the tv deal was announanced the nrl was already forecasting it for grassroots and media. The amount was the only issue depending on the club grants and players salary cap.

Gallop did run it cheaply, the grants to clubs were also 50% of the salary cap too. Yet the clubs are worse of today than 15 yrs ago.

You never explain what the non club grant and salary cap money is being spent on, and is it doing anything to improve the game?

This is not an insignificant amount- hundreds of millions a year...

 

[siv]

The NRL clubs have way too much control over the game in Australia.

We need a complete separation between the NRL and the game below the NRL level. Similar to the separation between the NFL competition and American Football.

Its called the ARLC and the NRL

But the NRL wants to be the ARLC

 

[Cumberland Throw]

If the NRL had $100 million in bank and made $7m a year from interest that got put straight into grass roots , would the players consider this $7m to be nrl revenue ??

 

[siv]

If the NRL had $100 million in bank and made $7m a year from interest that got put straight into grass roots , would the players consider this $7m to be nrl revenue ??

They would want the $100 mil first

 

[Stormwarrior82]

You never explain what the non club grant and salary cap money is being spent on, and is it doing anything to improve the game?

This is not an insignificant amount- hundreds of millions a year...

I dont need to explain anything. Maybe you need to talk to the nrl chief finance officer. I feel the detail that gets reported in the annual report is sufficient. I can understand you want to know more but apart from you and others complaining even more on how those funds should be spent, what does it do? Other codes are just as bad in the reporting of their budgets.

Just a guess on expenditure, most headings are obvious.
$100 mil on grassroots--- improving the game
$50mil on media---- improving the game
$75 mil events and sponsorship---improve
$25 mil admin
$25 mil football
$15 mil community and player welfare--improve
$30 mil state leagues---improve the game
$30 mil development --improve the game

$350 mil total

Buffalo where are you taking the $50 mil away from?

 

[siv]

So is the problem the NRL ARLC or both ?

 

[Pedge1971]

First thing. The clubs don't cost the nrl money, they make the nrl money. That misconception has to be acknowledge. When i say clubs i mean the players as well. Advertisers and broadcasters pay heaps for popular clubs and skillful players.

Secondly where does all the money the clubs get go? They are asking for 30% over the cap, so if the cap costs $10 million they recieve an extra $3million. You have coaching staff. You have medical staff. You have an under 20s team and most teams run their own reserves (or come to an agreement with a feeder club). These teams play 30 odd weeks of the year, with the logistics involved in that. For fly away teams this is even more. Depending on the team you also have junior funding, junior programs, scouting, development officers etc. You also have to always keep your facilities up to date. Then there's the actual running off the club, all the front office staff, marketing, accounting, HR ect and they all need to be paid. When you start adding it all up it starts making sense.

When people say clubs should be profitable, where does that money go? It's not like my business where if i make extra profit i can take a holiday or buy a new car. Any extra money the clubs makes doesn't actually go to anyone. All money clubs make is for football. So that's why clubs mostly live on the line. It's all about winning, so every cent should be spent gaining any possible advantage other wise it's actually wasted money just sitting there. The clubs make the money so in return should receive enough to keep ticking over. On a $13m per club grant is $208m. Considering the clubs make the nrl about $380m per year from tv broadcasting rights alone that isn't unreasonable. It's what the nrl is spending with that extra $150-$200m every year that should be under scrutiny and not the clubs

I think both sides (NRL v NRL Clubs) are equally to blame. The fact there is 2 sides and not 1 team shows this to be true. Both sides have this view of where their responsibilities begin and end vs the other side and they have never aligned. Infact the self interested turds that run the clubs cannot even agree among themselves and it is typically 3 or 4 clubs that tend to agitate and appoint themselves as reps for the whole. We know who they are.

The NRL are far from blameless and their gutless stance against powerful clubs trying to bulldoze their way back into ownership of the game combined with their inability to delineate roles and responsibilities, provide transparency on financials and include the clubs in certain processes shows they are inept.

Grant and Greenburg need to go. I would also throw up the Commission roles again on the proviso no one with an existing club or NSWRL or QRL affiliation or connection can be anywhere near it.

And ffs, News cannot be allowed anywhere near the games admin. They have done more damage rhan the rest put together.....

 

[Pedge1971]

How much is Newy, GC, Balmain, Dragons costing the NRL in extra $$$ every year?

It still blows my mind Newy has been in financial dire straits for a long time now, such a strong league area and they still can't get their shit in a pile. This is not a shot at knights fans either, they're pretty much the only reason the club still exists at the moment.

Ask the NRL, who knows. Though the Knights have reported that they have paid back some debt in the last 2 years so who knows.

 

[BuffaloRules]

I dont need to explain anything. Maybe you need to talk to the nrl chief finance officer. I feel the detail that gets reported in the annual report is sufficient. I can understand you want to know more but apart from you and others complaining even more on how those funds should be spent, what does it do? Other codes are just as bad in the reporting of their budgets.

Just a guess on expenditure, most headings are obvious.
$100 mil on grassroots--- improving the game
$50mil on media---- improving the game
$75 mil events and sponsorship---improve
$25 mil admin
$25 mil football
$15 mil community and player welfare--improve
$30 mil state leagues---improve the game
$30 mil development --improve the game

$350 mil total

Buffalo where are you taking the $50 mil away from?

We can only speculate on where the money goes, because we don't really know...what does "grassroots and development" actually mean in practical terms?...the NRL annual report tells us little and I have never seen even the most basic accounting details from any of the State Leagues... ie NSWRL QRL or the Developing States..

When the NRL has just reported three years of losses in a row despite record revenues that are many multiples of what the revenue was 10 years ago, I dont think it's sufficient to say it shouldn't be analysed and explained further...I don't give a stuff about the other codes...

I can summaries the points I am repeatedly trying to make as follows.

- two thirds of the revenue the game earns is being spent outside of the clubs and NRL players...for people to blame the current situation solely on "the greedy clubs" ( and by extension the players who end up with most of this money) is wrong...

- however this remaining two thirds of the money is being spent is not "improving the game" as you have repeated ad nausem .... several key areas of the game remain stagnant at best( I am being generous) under the reign of Grant despite the large sums of money being deployed... I have already stated that if the money was being spent and the state of the game was improving I wouldn't have an issue...

 

[seanoff]

Coaches, support staff , ceo , marketing , admin , ticketing etc

Can't cost $11m

I'd suggest you go and look at AFL clubs annual reports. Collingwood and North Melbourne are really clear. They spend a boatload of money on all those things listed.

NM one of the smaller AFL clubs. Spent $22M on footy ops, 3.3M on membership, 5.5M on admin, 3.1M on keeping sponsors happy. Its a chunk.

Sponsors dont just give you money, they want access in return. Hospitality, game access etc.

 

[Perth Red]

You'd have to question if we are getting value for money in some of the increased expenditure areas over last 5 years.
Salary cap and integrity unit from $450k to $3.2mill
Cost of running the nrl comp (refs etc) up $10mill a year
Event game and sponsorship (whatever the hell this includes?) up $33 mill a year
States and affiliates (vast majority nsw an qland cup) up $7mill a year

The clubs have seen their grants double in last 5 years but still scream poor.

 

[taipan]

The only reason he had the numbers last time was because the nrl had the qrl and the nrl owned clubs. Everyone else was against him, But after negotiations when the count happened, the clubs didn't have the numbers so some clubs (probably qld clubs) pulled there vote against. The nsw clubs shouldnt be ganging up on anyone. They should all Make up there own mind. It's not about ganging up at all. It's about promoting the sport rugby league.

That's partially what I stated, The difference being the two NRL clubs .Those two had little real choice.
Then two high profile board members one Sutcliffe and the other the high profile one name escapes me, who was involved in the new TV deal, supposedly resigned from the ARLC,apparentlydue to the Grant's handling of the Salary Cap 130% fiasco.
" One more time" I don't agree with clubs ganging up on Independent Boards or Chairmen fullstop.

 

[taipan]

I would assume the cost of titans, knights, dragons and tigers are all rolled into one of those sub group figures. Not sure which one though, I'd only be guessing.

It irks me no end that, anytime something leaks, it's from a club. The single handidly biggest issue facing the nrl is the undermining, self interested clubs that continuely leak to the media to use as leverage to help there own individual agenda. It's incredible.

That's why i need clarification.My guess and it is an uneducated one, the $25m is the cost of running pa the Tits and Knights and any unspecified club loans.

You are dealing with people involved in football clubs.It happens in all sports.Apart from politics these clubs have more politics and disagreement than you can poke a stick at.The egos run wild.Some still can;'t run a chook raffle.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

It wouldnt take much for a TV channel, say 10, to offer the ARLC money to run a mid week cup of RL teams to play in a FA cup style knock out.

Clubs like Wentworthville, Cabramatta, Redcliffe, Ipswich. Newcastle Wests, Wollongong Collegians. Mackay Cutters, Townsville Blackhawks, central Qldand Northern Pride. A Perth, Adelaide, Riverina, team too.

Put it on a Wednesday night when nothing is doing. Get some juicy sponsors on board. Bundle it all up so tv and advertisers and sponsors benefit, clubs get gate and participation fee. ARLC gets a second tv comp...exclusive and separate from NRL.

 

[Stormwarrior82]

I think both sides (NRL v NRL Clubs) are equally to blame. The fact there is 2 sides and not 1 team shows this to be true. Both sides have this view of where their responsibilities begin and end vs the other side and they have never aligned. Infact the self interested turds that run the clubs cannot even agree among themselves and it is typically 3 or 4 clubs that tend to agitate and appoint themselves as reps for the whole. We know who they are.

The NRL are far from blameless and their gutless stance against powerful clubs trying to bulldoze their way back into ownership of the game combined with their inability to delineate roles and responsibilities, provide transparency on financials and include the clubs in certain processes shows they are inept.

Grant and Greenburg need to go. I would also throw up the Commission roles again on the proviso no one with an existing club or NSWRL or QRL affiliation or connection can be anywhere near it.

And ffs, News cannot be allowed anywhere near the games admin. They have done more damage rhan the rest put together.....

I agree with you on the first part, but not the second. And yes the nrl are far from blameless but calling for Greenberg and Grants head is premature. I don't hear the calls for the club CEOs to go? Dib, Politis? They shoulder zero blame. Shoulders like snakes.
Grant and Greenberg were selected to there positions by well connected, successful businessmen and women. It seems Grant is more willing to go toe to toe with the club ceos than what Greenberg is. You don't want that? The Nrl has made it clear a few times that they want to go in a certain direction but get stopped by club ceos saying "what about us"? How can the Nrl sore with the eagles when they're surrounded by snakes.

 

[mave]

The biggest snake is that inconsistent POS Greenburg.

Grant just simply appears out of his depth.

 

[Stormwarrior82]

We can only speculate on where the money goes, because we don't really know...what does "grassroots and development" actually mean in practical terms?...the NRL annual report tells us little and I have never seen even the most basic accounting details from any of the State Leagues... ie NSWRL QRL or the Developing States..

When the NRL has just reported three years of losses in a row despite record revenues that are many multiples of what the revenue was 10 years ago, I dont think it's sufficient to say it shouldn't be analysed and explained further...I don't give a stuff about the other codes...

I can summaries the points I am repeatedly trying to make as follows.

- two thirds of the revenue the game earns is being spent outside of the clubs and NRL players...for people to blame the current situation solely on "the greedy clubs" ( and by extension the players who end up with most of this money) is wrong...

- however this remaining two thirds of the money is being spent is not "improving the game" as you have repeated ad nausem .... several key areas of the game remain stagnant at best( I am being generous) under the reign of Grant despite the large sums of money being deployed... I have already stated that if the money was being spent and the state of the game was improving I wouldn't have an issue...

I understand that you want to know more information, I would like it too but I understand why they don't. Apart from the nrl walking over to the Afl headquarters or the Aru headquarters and telling the codes our game plan, where and when we are going to spend money and on what. The detail you require would give the other codes more of a head start than they already have. Why don't clubs tell each other the game plan before the game? Because it's valuable information that can be used to stifle the opposition.(afl/aru/soccer).

The Nrl last year had $350mil revenue. $217 mil was spent on clubs/affiliate states and development. All vital and needed. Leaves $133 mil left.
$72mil on events/game/sponsorship
$19mil football
$21mil admin
$20mil integrity and player welfare.

Again tell me where you want to take the money away from? yes admin could be argued that it doesn't add to the game but what other areas aren't improving the game. You can't just say it. Tell me what area doesn't improve the game?

 

[Stormwarrior82]

You'd have to question if we are getting value for money in some of the increased expenditure areas over last 5 years.
Salary cap and integrity unit from $450k to $3.2mill
Cost of running the nrl comp (refs etc) up $10mill a year
Event game and sponsorship (whatever the hell this includes?) up $33 mill a year
States and affiliates (vast majority nsw an qland cup) up $7mill a year

The clubs have seen their grants double in last 5 years but still scream poor.

Salary cap and integrity-- you can thank cronulla and parramatta for the yearly increases of salary cap/ integrity spend.

Cost of running the comp--- I can't see where that increase is needed.

Event and game sponsorship--- has increased dramatically and can't explain why.

States and affiliates-- don't have a problem with the spend. Makes sense to spend more in nsw/qld than other states.

And clubs are worse than anyone.

 

[Stormwarrior82]

That's partially what I stated, The difference being the two NRL clubs .Those two had little real choice.
Then two high profile board members one Sutcliffe and the other the high profile one name escapes me, who was involved in the new TV deal, supposedly resigned from the ARLC,apparentlydue to the Grant's handling of the Salary Cap 130% fiasco.
" One more time" I don't agree with clubs ganging up on Independent Boards or Chairmen fullstop.

Yes it's sad that those 2 commissioners felt they needed to leave. I don't think it was because of Grant at all. Remember Grant is a spokesperson of the Arlc. He has 1 vote on the board so his opinion carries the same weight as any other commissioner. It's a board decision to take the MOU off the table not Grant. The 2 that are leaving I feel, is because the way clubs are attacking the Arlc and the independence of it. The clubs can remove a commissioner and Grant is the target because they have less infuence on him. If Grant wasn't there, it would be the next qld commissioner. The clubs can't remove the Ceo (Greenberg) The 2 commissioners that are leaving I feel are pissed that the game is destroying itself from the inside. When you feel you are making zero progress and can't see the light, you escape.

 

[betcats]

The biggest snake is that inconsistent POS Greenburg.

Grant just simply appears out of his depth.

Well his board hired Smith and then Greenberg so he obviously is out of his depth.