our future stars

[Drag Queen]

I said we have four U20 graduates with first grade experience. I am 100% correct.

They have three total, only Cleary is playing full time first grade. That's three. Total. Do you just make stuff up?

I'm not arguing that it's better or worse. You're saying ours is a train wreck and I don't see that. We've currently blooded more U20 players than they have. FACT.

Maybe. But with that possibility in mind do you believe Newcastle's junior development program is superior to all other clubs?

Old Timer. The king of straw mans.

You seem to want Field and Kerr and Lawrie and Dufty and Herbert and god knows who else to have a crack at first grade before they're ready. The juniors are coming along fine. Our reggies is full of young guys getting a taste.

OT do you even follow the 'Young Guns' ? If you did you would know they are far off the mark. Fact.

 

[Drag Queen]

OT do you even follow the 'Young Guns' ? If you did you would know they are far off the mark. Fact.[/QUOT

 

[ALSGI]

It's a tough one isn't it? I don't disagree that we lack that xfactor at the moment as well as speed. But as you say, how can you argue against Mary given our position and the way we have been playing for a majority of the year? The only real hiccup was the loss of Gaz (our dominant play maker) - and even then we were pretty competitive for a couple of those games.

I think the only thing with McCrone is that he does seem to compliment Gaz well. Potentially he does more off the ball than is noticeable. His kicking is definitely shite but he does have a few try assists this year so he does add some value in attack. Maybe the problem is the options we have available don't have that ability to organise off the ball? They may not talk enough or take enough control to allow Gaz to do his thing? As we know, it's not just about attacking ability - there are so many other factors to take into consideration when trying to find a halves combo that works well. These are the things we just aren't certain of and only the coaching team would be intimately aware of how each of them work with Gaz - the reggies are a great opportunity to build those skills - getting a peek every now and then in firsts.

I think the shuffle is a pretty good idea and I think (based on nothing but gut feel) that we may see some of this happen over the next few months. I guess it's a balancing act where you want your best players on the field at all times - you don't want to risk the chance of winning a premiership just to blood a bunch of youngsters.

The other aspect is that even if we brought young players into the team and we started to lose due to things such as defensive and attacking combinations not gelling, Mary will get the blame for not bringing them in earlier or bringing the wrong combinations in. Some people just have it in for him no matter what he does - it's a no win situation.

Yep, agree and just as confused.

 

[duck]

@Old Timer we all have an opinion and credit to you for at least trying to back it up, even though I totally disagree with it.

 

[Old Timer]

OT do you even follow the 'Young Guns' ? If you did you would know they are far off the mark. Fact.

And how exactly do you expect to get them up to the mark that you believe they need to be at?
No matter how long you play in reggies you will only ever find out if you can make it in the NRL by playing in it.
To that end I believe smart young players will learn a hell of a lot quicker by playing with the 1st graders than they will ever learn playing in reggies.

 

[Drag Queen]

And how exactly do you expect to get them up to the mark that you believe they need to be at?
No matter how long you play in reggies you will only ever find out if you can make it in the NRL by playing in it.
To that end I believe smart young players will learn a hell of a lot quicker by playing with the 1st graders than they will ever learn playing in reggies.

So you would play them even if it was detrimental to the team? Hmm.

 

[Old Timer]

@Old Timer we all have an opinion and credit to you for at least trying to back it up, even though I totally disagree with it.

Good that we can disagree and keep it reasonably amicable.
For the record I have not been pushing any particular barrow for Laurie, Garrick, Herbert as they certainly have a way to go.
My push is in particular around Dufty, Host, Field and Leilua who were all must signings according to the forum and were all heralded by management and coaching staff.
Sele has been handed very well and as I said before cannot complain.
I do not believe Field is being handled well in light of Millward's statement and subsequent statement by Mc Gregor re 3 possible FB's for 2018 although maybe next time Dugan is out he may finally get selected to play there and Dufty falls into that category as well.
My push for Kerr is based on the fact Packer is gone and people are suggesting we buy a range of different props who may or may not be available including some 22-23 years olds.
My preference is to see what we have in house before we buy anything other than a SOO or Int standard replacement. If we were to secure such a player then the game plan obviously changes.
People were all about how great Sims was as a signing well let him step up and start and bring Kerr to the bench or is the truth of the matter Sims is actually not that good although he was touted as a possible SOO player when he signed with us?
Our club has many constraints on it including cap pressure and if we can find players from within side the club that help alleviate that then IMO it should be investigated rather than just immediately signing outsiders.

 

[hazzbeen]

And how exactly do you expect to get them up to the mark that you believe they need to be at?
No matter how long you play in reggies you will only ever find out if you can make it in the NRL by playing in it.
To that end I believe smart young players will learn a hell of a lot quicker by playing with the 1st graders than they will ever learn playing in reggies.

Old Timer Agree , it is easier to play with a team of better players. , So if the tigers had waited , Moses , Brooks would have never shown what they can do . So all this talk of buying a fullback for next year where does that leave Dufty and Co ? So they linger in Reggies for next 2 to 3 years with no experience to top grade . Its a no from me , give these guys a go if we dont we will never know or we loose them . They will have there ups and downs but in the long run it will be a benefit to them and the team . Bottom line if they are good enough , they will make it ......

 

[Old Timer]

So you would play them even if it was detrimental to the team? Hmm.

How do you know it will be detrimental to the team that is purely supposition?
Did you do any whinging about last years efforts on the field or were you happy with it?
Obviously this years better efforts is due to change in lots of areas so obviously change should not be feared and in fact should be embraced because without it where do you think we would be this year?

 

[Old Timer]

Old Timer Agree , it is easier to play with a team of better players. , So if the tigers had waited , Moses , Brooks would have never shown what the can do . So all this talk of buying a fullback for next year where does that leave Dufty and Co ? So they linger in Reggies for next 2 to 3 years with no experience to top grade . Its a no from me , give these guys a go if we dont we will never know or we loose them . They will have there ups and downs but in the long run it will be a benefit to them and the team . Bottom line if they are good enough , they will make it ......

If Nighty to FB and KFFL to wing or buying other clubs 22 years olds is the answer for 2018 on the basis of Dugan leaving then god help us.
IMO that type of selection just means we are a club that lives in the now and has no idea of how to develop a sustainable future.

 

[j0nesy]

I don't think our junior progression is a train wreck but I don't think it's great either. Apparently 4 of u20's have tasted first grade in the past couple of seasons, I don't think this is a good yardstick. How many have actually started a game? How many minutes have they played? How many have become permanent first graders?

The only u20's player, in recent times, to have cemented a spot in first grade (and NSW for that matter) is Jack Bird and he had to leave our club to get a gig. We need to be careful not to repeat that error. One or two of these young blokes need to be given a good go. A handful of minutes per month off the bench is not enough.

 

[hazzbeen]

So you would play them even if it was detrimental to the team? Hmm.

What about when we lost 7 straight last year and we were the worst attacking team I had seen , No changes happened they could have blooded player then , so its not just about this year its been like this for a while .....

 

[Old Timer]

I don't think our junior progression is a train wreck but I don't think it's great either. Apparently 4 of u20's have tasted first grade in the past couple of seasons, I don't think this is a good yardstick. How many have actually started a game? How many minutes have they played? How many have become permanent first graders?

The only u20's player, in recent times, to have cemented a spot in first grade (and NSW for that matter) is Jack Bird and he had to leave our club to get a gig. We need to be careful not to repeat that error. One or two of these young blokes need to be given a good go. A handful of minutes per month off the bench is not enough.

Jonesy
You make a great point re "starting games" so many other clubs avoid wholesale shuffling and select the best available person who plays the position required and put them in the run on side.
Penrith & Cowboys in particular have had great success with a range of 19 & 20 year olds.

 

[possm]

It's a balancing act Juniors v retention/recruiting. In my opinion the planning should be there and if things don't go according to plan, then adjust the plan in a way that the squad keeps momentum and does not go backwards for a year or two. Far too often officials have their heads in the sand and cannot mke the hard decisions in a way which bests serves next year's squad.

A couple of years ago we knew Dugan and Packer's contracts would be up in 2017. We also knew we had some bright juniors coming through. What we did not know is how long it would take to bring these players up to first grade standard.

I believe we have taken the risky/ambitious path and unless we have a miracle off-season, we are in for a stall in momentum in 2018. A clever recruitment department would have anticipated this situation to be one of the options to consider and, instead of recruiting Macdonald should have at that time recruitd a wing/fullback so that if this current circumstance arrived, we would have coverage until the Dufty/Field or Mann fullback was ready.

In my mind, Mann should have played left wing all year and filled in for Dugan when ever needed. Let Field and Dufty push for selection at fullback from reserve grade and from there, let the form player win the day. Field could have been our utility player all year. Dufty would do what he has done all year and we would not have needed to buy Macdonald.

In Packer's case, I'm sure we got him super cheap and so we should have however, come the time when he is up to scratch we should have upgraded and extended his contract for another couple of years at least - mid-term 2016. We always hoped he would be ready in 2016 and so there was no real need to buy Mosoe and some of the other Illawarra forwards. Having Packer under contract for another two years would have been so handy when it comes to maintaining momentum and bringing through our young gun props.

 

[possm]

What about when we lost 7 straight last year and we were the worst attacking team I had seen , No changes happened they could have blooded player then , so its not just about this year its been like this for a while .....

Yes bad game style and low player confidence and no junior development however, all is forgiven with a two year extension in 2017.

 

[j0nesy]

Jonesy
You make a great point re "starting games" so many other clubs avoid wholesale shuffling and select the best available person who plays the position required and put them in the run on side.
Penrith & Cowboys in particular have had great success with a range of 19 & 20 year olds.

I find it very frustrating when we shuffle multiple positions to accomodate an injury when the obvious and simplest option would be to replace like for like, and give a young bloke a go. This has been going on for years now. There were ample opportunities to give Bird a go and there have been ample opportunities to give Field and Dufty a go. We will lose one of these two i think and we will probably regret it.

 

[Drag Queen]

What about when we lost 7 straight last year and we were the worst attacking team I had seen , No changes happened they could have blooded player then , so its not just about this year its been like this for a while .....

Hutch got some game time, but you'll find that most of the young guys mentioned here were not even in reggies last year. McGregor was a major fail for me last year. We brought in Mann and Milne who both had a sniff but ultimately spent their year predominately with the Cutters. Both not local juniors but surely deserved to play given their obvious talent. If these young players were actually playing out of their skin I wouldn't hesitate bringing them in. Problem is that they aren't.

 

[Too old too slow]

Good that we can disagree and keep it reasonably amicable.
For the record I have not been pushing any particular barrow for Laurie, Garrick, Herbert as they certainly have a way to go.
My push is in particular around Dufty, Host, Field and Leilua who were all must signings according to the forum and were all heralded by management and coaching staff.
Sele has been handed very well and as I said before cannot complain.
I do not believe Field is being handled well in light of Millward's statement and subsequent statement by Mc Gregor re 3 possible FB's for 2018 although maybe next time Dugan is out he may finally get selected to play there and Dufty falls into that category as well.
My push for Kerr is based on the fact Packer is gone and people are suggesting we buy a range of different props who may or may not be available including some 22-23 years olds.
My preference is to see what we have in house before we buy anything other than a SOO or Int standard replacement. If we were to secure such a player then the game plan obviously changes.
People were all about how great Sims was as a signing well let him step up and start and bring Kerr to the bench or is the truth of the matter Sims is actually not that good although he was touted as a possible SOO player when he signed with us?
Our club has many constraints on it including cap pressure and if we can find players from within side the club that help alleviate that then IMO it should be investigated rather than just immediately signing outsiders.

"Field not being handled well.."..

Whether we like it or not 'millennials' have to be handled differently .. and I am not sure the 'old brigade' have fully grasped that just yet.

This whole situation confuses an old fellow like me..

It would seem that in his mind (albeit a planted seed perhaps) he is too small and perhaps won't be ready until 2019. Is there doubt in his mind?

With almost certainty barring injury or the like he won't play 5/8 in the firsts.

He has the talent but I get the feeling he will be lost in our system.

He will be off contract in 2019... just about the time he will be ready if he's going to be... and there in is the conundrum.


WHERE WILL FIELD PLAY?

Don’t expect to see Jai Field playing fullback for St George Illawarra next season.

The crafty half has been tipped as the man to take over from Cronulla bound Josh Dugan next season but the 19-year-old has burst that thought bubble.

While Field’s body is maturing against men playing in the Intrust Super Premiership NSW, the livewire is still only 79 kilos.

Field revealed he will make the move from the halves into the No.1 at some stage but it’s unlikely that will come in 2018.

“Playing five-eighth at the moment, for my body is probably where I need to play,”

“You’re getting knocked around at fullback. Down the track I’d definitely like to play fullback.

He’s also spent time with the Cutters but adding size to his 180cm frame has proved difficult after suffering from shin splints halfway through pre-season.

Sitting at 79 kilos, he wants to get up to the 86 kilo mark by next season with his focus for the remainder of the year, working on his body.

“My physicality,” he said when asked what he’s working on.

"I’m still a bit small to play against men. I can get knocked around a bit because I am a small frame.

“I’ll hopefully put a few more kilos on in the next pre-season and hopefully I’m ready to go.”



https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/cou...n/news-story/d5847335742ee6363685aba66f963589

 

[Drag Queen]

"Field not being handled well.."..

Whether we like it or not 'millennials' have to be handled differently .. and I am not sure the 'old brigade' have fully grasped that just yet.

This whole situation confuses an old fellow like me..

It would seem that in his mind (albeit a planted seed perhaps) he is too small and perhaps won't be ready until 2019. Is there doubt in his mind?

With almost certainty barring injury or the like he won't play 5/8 in the firsts.

He has the talent but I get the feeling he will be lost in our system.

He will be off contract in 2019... just about the time he will be ready if he's going to be... and there in is the conundrum.


WHERE WILL FIELD PLAY?

Don’t expect to see Jai Field playing fullback for St George Illawarra next season.

The crafty half has been tipped as the man to take over from Cronulla bound Josh Dugan next season but the 19-year-old has burst that thought bubble.

While Field’s body is maturing against men playing in the Intrust Super Premiership NSW, the livewire is still only 79 kilos.

Field revealed he will make the move from the halves into the No.1 at some stage but it’s unlikely that will come in 2018.

“Playing five-eighth at the moment, for my body is probably where I need to play,”

“You’re getting knocked around at fullback. Down the track I’d definitely like to play fullback.

He’s also spent time with the Cutters but adding size to his 180cm frame has proved difficult after suffering from shin splints halfway through pre-season.

Sitting at 79 kilos, he wants to get up to the 86 kilo mark by next season with his focus for the remainder of the year, working on his body.

“My physicality,” he said when asked what he’s working on.

"I’m still a bit small to play against men. I can get knocked around a bit because I am a small frame.

“I’ll hopefully put a few more kilos on in the next pre-season and hopefully I’m ready to go.”



https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/cou...n/news-story/d5847335742ee6363685aba66f963589

Good read.

 

[True_Believer]

"Field not being handled well.."..

Whether we like it or not 'millennials' have to be handled differently .. and I am not sure the 'old brigade' have fully grasped that just yet.

This whole situation confuses an old fellow like me..

It would seem that in his mind (albeit a planted seed perhaps) he is too small and perhaps won't be ready until 2019. Is there doubt in his mind?

With almost certainty barring injury or the like he won't play 5/8 in the firsts.

He has the talent but I get the feeling he will be lost in our system.

He will be off contract in 2019... just about the time he will be ready if he's going to be... and there in is the conundrum.


WHERE WILL FIELD PLAY?

Don’t expect to see Jai Field playing fullback for St George Illawarra next season.

The crafty half has been tipped as the man to take over from Cronulla bound Josh Dugan next season but the 19-year-old has burst that thought bubble.

While Field’s body is maturing against men playing in the Intrust Super Premiership NSW, the livewire is still only 79 kilos.

Field revealed he will make the move from the halves into the No.1 at some stage but it’s unlikely that will come in 2018.

“Playing five-eighth at the moment, for my body is probably where I need to play,”

“You’re getting knocked around at fullback. Down the track I’d definitely like to play fullback.

He’s also spent time with the Cutters but adding size to his 180cm frame has proved difficult after suffering from shin splints halfway through pre-season.

Sitting at 79 kilos, he wants to get up to the 86 kilo mark by next season with his focus for the remainder of the year, working on his body.

“My physicality,” he said when asked what he’s working on.

"I’m still a bit small to play against men. I can get knocked around a bit because I am a small frame.

“I’ll hopefully put a few more kilos on in the next pre-season and hopefully I’m ready to go.”



https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/cou...n/news-story/d5847335742ee6363685aba66f963589

Excellent post. It gives us a small window into the difficulties the coaching team face in managing the roster and ensuring players are being dealt with in a way that doesn't break their confidence or hinder their progression. Giving them small part roles in the NRL team here and there lets them know they are part of the bigger picture, gives them a taste in the hope that they will focus and work on their game in the Reggies.

I suspect Dufty fits into this category as well although potentially further along than Field. You can read into this that the move from Reggies is far from a sideways step from 20s. It's a leap up in physicality and speed - as is the NRL from Reggies. It's the ability to recognise those players that make the transition easily which is the difficult part.