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Ponga Appreciation Thread.

Joel-22

Juniors
Messages
883
I'm trying to give the most measured assessment of Ponga and Newcastle that I can here.
My general assessment is that Ponga could be equally good in the 1 or 6.
He has the defence, kicking, running, fitness, vision to play either position equally well. Wherever he chooses to play he is destined for greatness. I think if you're reasoning honestly, whether you're adamant that he should play fullback or adamant he should play 5/8, nothing I've said in the preceding sentences should be controversial.
There are three questions to which the answers should determine where he should play, each of which have differing levels of primacy. They are;

1. Where does he want to play?

2. Where is best for the club?

3. Which position yields the fewest great players?

To answer question 1, I think it is clear that at this stage the kid wishes to play fullback. However, he has made a few comments that suggest he is open to a switch at some point in his career. That said, he has expressed unambiguously that (at least for the time being) he sees himself as a fullback.

Verdict on this point: Ponga to stay at fullback.

On question 2, the answer remains the most uncertain. There is no doubt Connor Watson is a wonderful young footballer. He has done some fantastic things playing 5/8 this year. However, he has also shown that there are areas of his game that he truly needs to work on if he is to make a complete first grade 5/8 (his kicking and passing). Some have argued that Watson would be better suited to fullback than 5/8 because of his playmaking deficiencies. This is an illusion, at least I would argue. Every good team in the modern game has a fullback who has excellent playmaking skills. The pass selection of fullbacks is absolutely crucial, perhaps more so than the modern 5/8's. In the modern game it is often the fullback who throws the final, crucial pass in organised set pieces. I don't believe that Watson is suited to that role, at least at this stage in his career, and regardless of where he plays this is something Watson should be working hard on in the off-season and at training.
So to be honest, after objectively looking at the side we have and weighing both sides of the argument the answer to question 2 remains unclear. One could argue that the answer to question 1 feeds into question 2 because we should keep Ponga happy by allowing him to play where he chooses (which as previously stated, appears to be fullback at this stage).
The answer to question 2 changes depends largely on our squad. If we suddenly signed a boom fullback (i.e. Matt Dufty) I would probably err to moving Ponga to 5/8. Equally, if we signed a boom 5/8 (i.e. Maloney) there would and should be no hesitation to leave Ponga at fullback.
The issue is complicated by the fact we have two players (Ponga and Watson) who are seemingly capable of playing both positions.

Verdict on this point: Ponga to stay at fullback and Watson to be given longer in the 5/8 position.

3. If one is to argue for Ponga to move into 5/8, I think this is the strongest line of argument to take. Outside of Maloney, Widdop, Thurston (if you include him a 5/8) there isn't a great deal of truly great 5/8s running around. This obviously depends on how define a "great 5/8". However, I think objectively you could argue that there are more great fullbacks in the game. Just look at the NSW and QLD sides, each side had at least 2 specialist fullbacks in it each game (Holmes, Slater and Trbojevic, Tedesco) and only one 5/8 (and I would hardly call Munster a great 5/8).

Verdict on this point: Ponga to 5/8.


So I think a fair conclusion, is to allow 1.Ponga 6.Watson 7.Pearce more time to develop.

The 3 circumstances in which we should think about moving Ponga to 5/8 are:
1. Ponga decides that is where he wants to play
2. 1.Ponga 6.Watson 7.Pearce is given a solid 12months together and doesn't work
3. We sign a boom fullback

So at this stage, our best side has Ponga at fullback
 
Last edited:

Knight Vision

First Grade
Messages
5,066
Ponga is a fullback. Ponga says he wants to play fullback. Ponga gets what Ponga wants.

1st full season of NRL = QLD SOO selection, Dally M leader board, One of the top try assist and tackle busts in the league. All of this and people jump on a media report and hype to change the kids position to 5/8. Simply amazing.

1 and only reason we move Ponga from Fullback is - PONGA doesnt want to play there.
 

Spot On

Coach
Messages
13,902
Meaney looks like he could be a decent 1. Maybe he could be a very good one.

I know Watson has played a lot of his footy at the back but it will be disappointing to lose Meaney if Ponga does go to 6.

In that scenario, Watson on the bench would have been my preference.

Alas, it will never be. We finally have a jnr in the system that looks a good player and we can't manage to keep him.
 

Yosh

Coach
Messages
11,325
I think Munster is quite a great 6. Or is it just in the Storm system? The Storm always have a really good quality running five-eigth outside an organizer seven. Pearce and Watson fit that description and Ponga has it in him to be better than Slater (difficult but he has the potential). We just need a quality nine. I still can't see Levi being that player. Great impact hooker off the bench but we need someone better.
 

Knight Vision

First Grade
Messages
5,066
I think Munster is quite a great 6. Or is it just in the Storm system? The Storm always have a really good quality running five-eigth outside an organizer seven. Pearce and Watson fit that description and Ponga has it in him to be better than Slater (difficult but he has the potential). We just need a quality nine. I still can't see Levi being that player. Great impact hooker off the bench but we need someone better.
I'm not so sure about Levi. He has a heck of a lot of potential and he's only a pup, best years ahead of him. If he can improve a few things in his game he could be anything.

Look at Damien Cook he's 27 yrs old and just reaching his potential versus Levi who's 22 yrs old
 

PhilGould

Bench
Messages
3,325
Hooker is a really nuanced role so it's hard to gauge how good young players can/will be and as mentioned above they generally don't hit their peak until mid-late 20s. It's such a big step up in quality from reserve grade or u/20's and they're smack bang in the middle of everything in attack and defence, so all the growing pains are much more noticeable. The only young hookers who come out of the gates firing are the super quick hookers being used as impact players off the bench and they rarely can sustain that once they become starters.

Danny's playing big minutes now and not struggling with the workload as much as I would have expected. He's getting smarter at timing his runs and I think he's improving at slowing down the ruck in defence. He does still goes for the hero play a little too much and needs to get more variety in his game when we're attacking the try-line. Considering how his season started I'm happy with his development this year.
 

Snikt

Juniors
Messages
19
Meaney looks like he could be a decent 1. Maybe he could be a very good one.

I know Watson has played a lot of his footy at the back but it will be disappointing to lose Meaney if Ponga does go to 6.

In that scenario, Watson on the bench would have been my preference.

Alas, it will never be. We finally have a jnr in the system that looks a good player and we can't manage to keep him.

Weve lost Meaney regardless. Hes signed with the Dogs
 

TooheysNew

Coach
Messages
1,050
Weve lost Meaney regardless. Hes signed with the Dogs
I think his point was that it is less disappointing to have lost Meaney at the moment, because we already have a brilliant fullback.

If Ponga moves to 6, we no longer have a brilliant fullback, we have a brilliant 6, and then its super disappointing to have lost someone who could have been our fullback.
 

Spot On

Coach
Messages
13,902
Weve lost Meaney regardless. Hes signed with the Dogs

Yes, I know. My point was it's not so disappointing to lose Meaney if Ponga stays at 1.

If he plays 6 in 2019 however, it looks like (from only the few games I've seen him) we lose a player to fill the 1 who potentially could be very good there.
 

Snikt

Juniors
Messages
19
Fair enough

I agree. Ponga is a better fit at fullback for our team. Id really like to see his cover defence improve though
 

Frank Facer

First Grade
Messages
5,069
I'm trying to give the most measured assessment of Ponga and Newcastle that I can here.
My general assessment is that Ponga could be equally good in the 1 or 6.
He has the defence, kicking, running, fitness, vision to play either position equally well. Wherever he chooses to play he is destined for greatness. I think if you're reasoning honestly, whether you're adamant that he should play fullback or adamant he should play 5/8, nothing I've said in the preceding sentences should be controversial.
There are three questions to which the answers should determine where he should play, each of which have differing levels of primacy. They are;

1. Where does he want to play?

2. Where is best for the club?

3. Which position yields the fewest great players?

To answer question 1, I think it is clear that at this stage the kid wishes to play fullback. However, he has made a few comments that suggest he is open to a switch at some point in his career. That said, he has expressed unambiguously that (at least for the time being) he sees himself as a fullback.

Verdict on this point: Ponga to stay at fullback.

On question 2, the answer remains the most uncertain. There is no doubt Connor Watson is a wonderful young footballer. He has done some fantastic things playing 5/8 this year. However, he has also shown that there are areas of his game that he truly needs to work on if he is to make a complete first grade 5/8 (his kicking and passing). Some have argued that Watson would be better suited to fullback than 5/8 because of his playmaking deficiencies. This is an illusion, at least I would argue. Every good team in the modern game has a fullback who has excellent playmaking skills. The pass selection of fullbacks is absolutely crucial, perhaps more so than the modern 5/8's. In the modern game it is often the fullback who throws the final, crucial pass in organised set pieces. I don't believe that Watson is suited to that role, at least at this stage in his career, and regardless of where he plays this is something Watson should be working hard on in the off-season and at training.
So to be honest, after objectively looking at the side we have and weighing both sides of the argument the answer to question 2 remains unclear. One could argue that the answer to question 1 feeds into question 2 because we should keep Ponga happy by allowing him to play where he chooses (which as previously stated, appears to be fullback at this stage).
The answer to question 2 changes depends largely on our squad. If we suddenly signed a boom fullback (i.e. Matt Dufty) I would probably err to moving Ponga to 5/8. Equally, if we signed a boom 5/8 (i.e. Maloney) there would and should be no hesitation to leave Ponga at fullback.
The issue is complicated by the fact we have two players (Ponga and Watson) who are seemingly capable of playing both positions.

Verdict on this point: Ponga to stay at fullback and Watson to be given longer in the 5/8 position.

3. If one is to argue for Ponga to move into 5/8, I think this is the strongest line of argument to take. Outside of Maloney, Widdop, Thurston (if you include him a 5/8) there isn't a great deal of truly great 5/8s running around. This obviously depends on how define a "great 5/8". However, I think objectively you could argue that there are more great fullbacks in the game. Just look at the NSW and QLD sides, each side had at least 2 specialist fullbacks in it each game (Holmes, Slater and Trbojevic, Tedesco) and only one 5/8 (and I would hardly call Munster a great 5/8).

Verdict on this point: Ponga to 5/8.


So I think a fair conclusion, is to allow 1.Ponga 6.Watson 7.Pearce more time to develop.

The 3 circumstances in which we should think about moving Ponga to 5/8 are:
1. Ponga decides that is where he wants to play
2. 1.Ponga 6.Watson 7.Pearce is given a solid 12months together and doesn't work
3. We sign a boom fullback

So at this stage, our best side has Ponga at fullback
Great post. I have already discussed in this thread the idea of moving Ponga to 5/8 and even suggested that you guys buy Barba (who looks to be going back to Cronulla). Holmes would be another good pick up to play fullback, but I read that he will most likely be going to Nth Qld if he leaves Cronulla.

As for 5/8's. Besides Thurston, Ponga would be in a completely different category to the ones you mentioned. Top line 5/8's are rarer than top line fullbacks. If I was coaching Ponga, I would be very interested in him playing 5/8. He would be closer to the ball at 5/8 and would probably get more touches. I think he would develop a very good kicking game too. He could eventually develop into a dominate play maker later on in his career. I prefer my captain to play in the halves if possible and he is future captain material.

I can understand the idea of keeping Ponga fullback, where he has more room to move and can inject himself when ever he likes. He also has the chance to run the ball back from broken play.

What about the idea of Watson at centre?

I know it all gets down to where Ponga wishes to play.
 

Yosh

Coach
Messages
11,325
I think Ponga will get the ball plenty at both 5/8th or at fullback. I think the only difference would be whether you want him running the ball more in open space (fullback) or making tackles in the line.

Ponga is also excellent at cover tackling and quite safe at the back. If we bring in Watson, I'm sure he'll be deadly with the ball in hand but how is he under the high ball? How will he be organizing from the back? How will he deal with last ditch cover tackles?
 

Knight Vision

First Grade
Messages
5,066
wow. Amazing honor for a kid in his first year. Hard to not get carried away about Ponga. Depending on injuries he could be anything by the end of his career. If I was a betting man I'd say he could be one of the all time greats- lets hope thats in red and blue
 

GC_Gladiator

Juniors
Messages
1,508
Not looking to get into a debate about who the more talented player is but I wonder if Milford's transition to the halves from fullback might highlight some of the difficulties that Ponga might face if he were to move.

You guys have one hell of a player and it has been thrilling to watch him from the back this year.
 

Frank Facer

First Grade
Messages
5,069
So 5/8 it is then. There is an article in the SMH saying that Ponga will be playing 5/8 next year. I think it is a great idea. Newy will have one of the best pairs of halves in the comp. They will probably have the best 5/8 in the comp. I already think that Ponga has the best passing game in the comp. He will now be closer to the action and can become a more dominate play maker. I think a good fullback will be easier to find than a good 5/8. He is future captain material and I think captains best positions are halfback and 5/8.
 

Yosh

Coach
Messages
11,325
So 5/8 it is then. There is an article in the SMH saying that Ponga will be playing 5/8 next year. I think it is a great idea. Newy will have one of the best pairs of halves in the comp. They will probably have the best 5/8 in the comp. I already think that Ponga has the best passing game in the comp. He will now be closer to the action and can become a more dominate play maker. I think a good fullback will be easier to find than a good 5/8. He is future captain material and I think captains best positions are halfback and 5/8.

What Ponga wants, what Ponga gets. I think that's the number one rule in Newcastle these days.
 
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