Premiership

[Dennis Papaioannou]

To me, the question of whether Mary is a coach capable of winning a premiership is a little unfair. So many factors have to fall a team's way for them to win a comp these days. That is why no team has had successive victories for a couple of decades. Brian Smith did a great job in 1993 but it was not his fault that we lost Jason Stevens in the opening minute. David Waite did a great job in 1996 but it was not his fault Manson allowed the tackled Ridge to get up and run away. Nor his fault in 1999 that Choc didn't pass the ball to unmarked support which would have opened up an unassailable lead nor for Bill Harrigan to even the contest up a little with a Storm try off a forward pass. Or looking at it from another angle, we may not have made the 2010 GF had Jeremy Smith been penalised for a high shot with roughly 8 minutes to go. Would such a decision have made Bennett a lesser coach?

The question should be "is Mary the best available option?" My response to that question is three-fold:

1. We don't really know because we appoint rather than call for applications.

2. If we must appoint a coach without recourse to calling for applications then I believe Mary is the most reliable choice. Six months ago I was amongst his harshest critics. I envisaged a season of watching more Illawarra matches than those of the Dragons. But until the past 2 weeks and with the exception of the Eels game I have derived a lot of pleasure from the Dragons' performances. I could list many concerns which I agree with that are commonly raised on the Forum but I have no doubt that overall Mary has shown improvement and a willingness to change. In Press Conferences this year he has appeared much more relaxed and, dare I say it, a better human being than he revealed in his excusathons last year. And his recent quoted remarks in relation to Russell Packer show that his concern for his players as individuals rivals the long lauded qualities of Wayne Bennett.

3. Without an open selection process, who would you suggest is a better choice and available?

We let the best candidate walk out the door - Jason Demetriou.
He would have been the perfect transition even though many will say he was another rookie coach.
But stack his qualifications up against Mary's and he was better qualified.
He would still be available and could exit Brisbane if it was for a FG coaching position.
I still cannot understand why he wasn't a shoe in.
Coached an attractive style of play and was tactically savvy.
If he was given the same opportunity as McGregor, I am sure we would have been much better off.
Look, I think the improvement has been great but Canterbury was a big test and we failed that because Hasler devised tactics to beat us and Mary could not counter that.
Next is Parramatta who gave us a hiding the first time because they came with a simple game plan to attack us out wide and we couldn't do anything about it.
Let's see if Mary can change this worrying trend.

 

[Alec's-saints]

We let the best candidate walk out the door - Jason Demetriou.
He would have been the perfect transition even though many will say he was another rookie coach.
But stack his qualifications up against Mary's and he was better qualified.
He would still be available and could exit Brisbane if it was for a FG coaching position.
I still cannot understand why he wasn't a shoe in.
Coached an attractive style of play and was tactically savvy.
If he was given the same opportunity as McGregor, I am sure we would have been much better off.
Look, I think the improvement has been great but Canterbury was a big test and we failed that because Hasler devised tactics to beat us and Mary could not counter that.
Next is Parramatta who gave us a hiding the first time because they came with a simple game plan to attack us out wide and we couldn't do anything about it.
Let's see if Mary can change this worrying trend.

and look where the dogs are on the ladder and still hasn't delivered them a premiership. mary has us sitting in the top 4. abit rich don't you think.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

I think it's a bit rich that we keep having a wank over our position on the table.
We are 4th on points differential.
In fact we are on the same competition points as 3 other teams.
My concern is the current trend.
Teams beneath us are coming good and we are tanking.
You can window dress it all you like but it's there for everyone to see.
We fielded close to our strongest team against the Dogs and were dominated.

 

[coast_dragons]

I think it's a bit rich that we keep having a wank over our position on the table.
We are 4th on points differential.
In fact we are on the same competition points as 3 other teams.
My concern is the current trend.
Teams beneath us are coming good and we are tanking.
You can window dress it all you like but it's there for everyone to see.
We fielded close to our strongest team against the Dogs and were dominated.

I think you maybe the only one having a wank.

 

[Alec's-saints]

I think it's a bit rich that we keep having a wank over our position on the table.
We are 4th on points differential.
In fact we are on the same competition points as 3 other teams.
My concern is the current trend.
Teams beneath us are coming good and we are tanking.
You can window dress it all you like but it's there for everyone to see.
We fielded close to our strongest team against the Dogs and were dominated.

we had a off game who cares it happens to every team. you must be burning up watching the saints play some good footy this year and sitting in the top 4. you can death ride us all you want mate people like you shouldn't even be following this club go follow someone else you clown

 

[Life's Good]

Our ladder position reflects a team that is playing a style perfectly suited to the roster we have. Powerful forwards that win the battle up front allowing the backs some room to move.
When that fails eg Parra, Bulldogs game we then haven't got a plan b because we are effectively operating with one half-Widdop.
This is why having a decent 7 is critical to our chances 2018. Will that mean we are suddenly premiership contenders? Only time wil tell.
As for this year it's a case of enjoy the ride.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

we had a off game who cares it happens to every team. you must be burning up watching the saints play some good footy this year and sitting in the top 4. you can death ride us all you want mate people like you shouldn't even be following this club go follow someone else you clown

You have no idea what you are talking about.
Look at the essence of the post not your emotional diatribe.
Look at the recent results 4 losses out of 5.
Last two games were not "good footy", sorry to burst your bubble.
No one is death riding the team but it seems that unless we wax lyrical all the time we are not true supporters.
You are totally out of line and are in no position to decide who should be following the club or not.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

I think you maybe the only one having a wank.

Relax champ - it was just a figure of speech.
Instead of getting touchy about that - look at the essence of my post and you will see it is a statement of fact.

 

[hewi]

we had a off game who cares it happens to every team. you must be burning up watching the saints play some good footy this year and sitting in the top 4. you can death ride us all you want mate people like you shouldn't even be following this club go follow someone else you clown

No doubt about it they have played some great footie, however that was in the past. The last two games have been very ordinary to say the least. We are allowed to criticise, however I'm sure everyone on here wants to see a mighty big win against the Eels, I know I do. Do I think it will happen? I'm very nervous that all I'm willing to say at the moment.

 

[Alec's-saints]

You have no idea what you are talking about.
Look at the essence of the post not your emotional diatribe.
Look at the recent results 4 losses out of 5.
Last two games were not "good footy", sorry to burst your bubble.
No one is death riding the team but it seems that unless we wax lyrical all the time we are not true supporters.
You are totally out of line and are in no position to decide who should be following the club or not.

ok dribble drop

 

[Blood Shot Eyes]

To be totally honest if you have the cattle almost anybody can deliver a premiership imo......if you look at the last time we won it yes we had Bennett BUT we had a bloody good 17 to go with it.....whilst I will give credit to Wayne I also have to give equal credit to our boys.......Bennett has the ability to bring the best out in his teams but they have to have the skills as well.......when John Buchanan was coach of the Aussie Cricket team they were unbeatable......now there were coaches around the world that were as good if not better than him but he had Warne, Mcgrath, Gilchrist, Hayden, Taylor etc etc...now as a former 1st grade cricket coach without blowing my own trumpet with that roster II believe I could have had favourable results as well......to finally answer your question at this stage with what cattle Mary has at his disposal and his lack of faith he seems to have with some up and comers this year I dont think so.....maybe next year with Hunt and who knows who else .......then maybe

 

[BringTheNoise]

To be totally honest if you have the cattle almost anybody can deliver a premiership imo......if you look at the last time we won it yes we had Bennett BUT we had a bloody good 17 to go with it.....whilst I will give credit to Wayne I also have to give equal credit to our boys.......Bennett has the ability to bring the best out in his teams but they have to have the skills as well.......when John Buchanan was coach of the Aussie Cricket team they were unbeatable......now there were coaches around the world that were as good if not better than him but he had Warne, Mcgrath, Gilchrist, Hayden, Taylor etc etc...now as a former 1st grade cricket coach without blowing my own trumpet with that roster II believe I could have had favourable results as well......to finally answer your question at this stage with what cattle Mary has at his disposal and his lack of faith he seems to have with some up and comers this year I dont think so.....maybe next year with Hunt and who knows who else .......then maybe

I don't really subscribe to your theory. Nathan Brown had better squads than Bennett ever did at the Dragons and could never seal the deal.

Some of our key players in 2009 & 2010 were signed off the scrap heap. Weyman had huge potential but was an overweight, unfit and poorly disciplined mess before he came to us, Priddis was without a club, Dell was way past his best and coming off a 2 year drug ban, Soward was in and out of first grade.

Neville Costigan was playing prop and Beau Scott was playing centres because we literally had no-one else (until Gaz came).

Our biggest signings were J. Smith (who I think Brown signed anyway) and Boyd.

2010 we were a champion team, not a team of champions. The Bennett factor was undeniable. No Bennett, no Premiership.

 

[coast_dragons]

Relax champ - it was just a figure of speech.
Instead of getting touchy about that - look at the essence of my post and you will see it is a statement of fact.

Touchy funny you should say that you may have just touched something.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

Touchy funny you should say that you may have just touched something.

Stop it - I've got a stitch ha ha

 

[coast_dragons]

Stop it - I've got a stitch ha ha

Keep your hands above the table thats the advice you need today.

 

[Blood Shot Eyes]

I don't really subscribe to your theory. Nathan Brown had better squads than Bennett ever did at the Dragons and could never seal the deal.

Some of our key players in 2009 & 2010 were signed off the scrap heap. Weyman had huge potential but was an overweight, unfit and poorly disciplined mess before he came to us, Priddis was without a club, Dell was way past his use date and coming off a 2 year drug ban, Soward was in and out of first grade.

Neville Costigan was playing prop and Beau Scott was playing centres because we literally had no-one else (until Gaz came).

Our biggest signings were J. Smith (who I think Brown signed anyway) and Boyd.

2010 we were a champion team, not a team of champions. The Bennett factor was undeniable. No Bennett, no Premiership.

Thanks for your opinion thats what forums are about..you have your opinion on the Bennett factor and I have mine.......you make some valid points in your assessments none of which will lead me to change mine

 

[Frank Facer]

Our ladder position reflects a team that is playing a style perfectly suited to the roster we have. Powerful forwards that win the battle up front allowing the backs some room to move.
When that fails eg Parra, Bulldogs game we then haven't got a plan b because we are effectively operating with one half-Widdop.
This is why having a decent 7 is critical to our chances 2018. Will that mean we are suddenly premiership contenders? Only time wil tell.
As for this year it's a case of enjoy the ride.

I agree with your whole post. I also think that either Field or Dufty could also offer us X factor at fullback next year. They both are very quick and can ball play too. As long as our forwards can do the job, that should provide the halves and fullback the time and space to do their thing.

I also think that Aikten must be replaced. I have not seen Herbert, but from the wraps that are on him, I think he should be given a run in first grade. Lomax and Marsters could also both be pushing for first grade in the next 2 years. Garrick is another with wraps on him.

 

[WardyRedV]

To be totally honest if you have the cattle almost anybody can deliver a premiership imo......if you look at the last time we won it yes we had Bennett BUT we had a bloody good 17 to go with it.....whilst I will give credit to Wayne I also have to give equal credit to our boys.......Bennett has the ability to bring the best out in his teams but they have to have the skills as well.......when John Buchanan was coach of the Aussie Cricket team they were unbeatable......now there were coaches around the world that were as good if not better than him but he had Warne, Mcgrath, Gilchrist, Hayden, Taylor etc etc...now as a former 1st grade cricket coach without blowing my own trumpet with that roster II believe I could have had favourable results as well......to finally answer your question at this stage with what cattle Mary has at his disposal and his lack of faith he seems to have with some up and comers this year I dont think so.....maybe next year with Hunt and who knows who else .......then maybe

I'm quite optimistic about next year because it seems like the perfect storm. A star half joining a team who outperformed the year before. A coach who had been written off. A crop of juniors who are almost too talented to believe (Field, Dufty, Robson etc.). A star half who finally, after years of being sub standard, has started playing out of his boots. It really does seem like a team that can realise its potential. We've seen this storyline a few times over the last several years and I do believe we will have a team capable of taking it out.
Fully expecting to have the heart ripped out of this post because McUseless sucks!!! But he's our coach for the next couple of years so I'd rather be positive about the situation.

 

[possm]

To be totally honest if you have the cattle almost anybody can deliver a premiership imo......if you look at the last time we won it yes we had Bennett BUT we had a bloody good 17 to go with it.....whilst I will give credit to Wayne I also have to give equal credit to our boys.......Bennett has the ability to bring the best out in his teams but they have to have the skills as well.......when John Buchanan was coach of the Aussie Cricket team they were unbeatable......now there were coaches around the world that were as good if not better than him but he had Warne, Mcgrath, Gilchrist, Hayden, Taylor etc etc...now as a former 1st grade cricket coach without blowing my own trumpet with that roster II believe I could have had favourable results as well......to finally answer your question at this stage with what cattle Mary has at his disposal and his lack of faith he seems to have with some up and comers this year I dont think so.....maybe next year with Hunt and who knows who else .......then maybe

Bennett did not only bring discipline, a sense of playing for each other and ownership of your space on the ground, he also developed a great game plan that suited the players while also considering the opposition of the day,

Bennett recruited some good hard nosed forwards to the Club and a great fullback in Boyd. He turned Soward into a match winner and gave Hornby, Young, Morris, Cooper and Gasnier the confidence to play well above their usual skill-level. There is no way we could have won that GF without Bennett.

 

[Dragsters]

The fact that we are even in the mix this year as a contender is astonishing in itself.....we play a very physical brand of footy and it's taking its toll at the moment. We need to find that second wind and fast.....

4 forwards on the bench is a must now as is a decent kicking 7.