QRL/BRL matches question

[Knight87]

I was wondering, you know how when people say "rugby league matches played over the past 100 yrs in Australia", they're either referring to matches played in the NSWRL (1908-1994), ARL/SL (1995-97) and NRL (1998-today)? Why does not that include matches played in the QRL/BRL before 1988 (when the Broncos came into the comp)? Even though the NSWRL and QRL/BRL were the state comps of the respective states (NSW and QLD), why are NSWRL matches counted, yet BRL ones arent?

And also, on the topic of that (and I want an honest answer from those who were alive and remember at the time, when it was around), what was the quality of football like in the QRL/BRL pre 1988? How did it compare to the NSWRL? Did they get good crowds back then in the QRL/BRL? Was it popular? When did its popularity and crowd attendances start to diminish?

 

[East Coast Tiger]

It's a very good question. It's quite unfair that players from the BRL have never been recognised alongside those from the old NSWRL because the standard was pretty similar in the old days.

The games pre-1988 were almost as well attended as Sydney games for the most part. Lang Park only held abot 33,000 but it used to be packed for grand finals and they used to have match of the day there like they had at the SCG and those got big crowds too. The suburban grounds didn't attract huge crowds but then again that was pretty much the same in Sydney. I haven't seen many games from the BRL days but the standard would have been close to NSWRL standard.

 

[Knight87]

you know what I mean? Like, pre-1988, NSW had their own comp, QLD had theirs. Why are NSWRL matches recorded in the record books and archives and are the only ones talked about, whereas the QRL/BRL matches don't even get a mention today? Its like it was non-existant (maybe in the minds of NSWRL ppl). Unless, the quality of play in the QRL/BRL was very crap. I dunno, I was only 1 yr old in 1988, so I don't remember watching anything at the time. Had to rely on youtube for some famous clips of matches gone by from former years

 

[hellteam]

because its a nsw run game. theres plenty of people in queensland these days that dont support any team in the nrl because their team (eg wests panthers valleys) and competition have gone.

 

[Knight87]

I found this off Wikipedia. Tell me what you think of this:

"From the early 1920s to the 1970s, the Brisbane Rugby League premiership was the premier competition in the state, and was a thriving success boasting big crowds and large, loyal supporter bases with the repective clubs. Like its NSW counterpart, the clubs were constant, with new teams rarely entering the competition. Traditionally, the clubs were Valleys, Brothers, Norths, Souths, Wests, Easts, Redcliffe and Wynnum-Manly. However, when poker machines were introduced in New South Wales, but not in the Bjelke-Peterson Queensland, the NSWRL's clubs were able to entice Queensland players south of the Tweed with the lure of more money"

Do you agree with the part thats in bold?

 

[innsaneink]

Its how origin came about.

 

[hellteam]

what is outstanding about that part ?

 

[Knight87]

like, how big was the BRL back in those days?

 

[hellteam]

i read a book on the broncos and it had a lot about the old brl competition in it. and it said people would grow up knowing the names of sydney teams but not who played for them or anything. they would only know the outstanding players in it (ie australian reps).

and then tv came along in the 60?s i think or 70s maybe cant remember and thats only when people started to support the sydney clubs.

 

[Canard]

As someone born in the 70's, Knighty you make me feel like an old pensioner!!, I can remember the BRL from my youth, and other history from my older family members, (Dad, Uncles etc.)

As stated the biggest impact on the BRL was the refusal of Sir Joh to allow pokies in QLD, therefore from the late 60's onwards, Sydney teams picked the eyes out of the BRL teams. (with a small few going the other way, like John Sattler etc.)

By the eighties (when I recall matches), the standard of the game was good, the top 4 or so sides would have competed in the NSWRL well (not saying they would have dominated or anything).

There were open public debates at the time that the great Wynnum-Manly team of the 80's would have beaten or at very least competed well with the Canterbury teams of the time.

Crowds weren't as high as Sydney at the suburban grounds though, with sometimes only a few thousand turning up to Wests games etc. %wise it was probably comparable with Sydney, considering back in the day Brissy's population base wasnt like it is now. (probably only about a million or so?)

 

[Pigskin]

The original poster poses a very good question ... kudos .... I'd love to hear David Gallop or somebody (squirm) come up with answers as to why QRL/BRL games aren't celebrated in this "wonderful" centenary year.

I was present at Grandfinals from age 6, 1976. My parents still tell embarrassing stories of how i used to cry under the seat as a child when Easts lost at Lang Park.

When the Broncos arrived in 1988, I was an 18 year old kid. I guess at that point I never really contemplated what they would do to the competition I had known and loved. Loved those Sunday afternoons at Langlands Park. Now I do understand what has been taken away and to some extent it disappoints me. Thats progress.

Sir Joh (long term criminal that he was) and the pokies leeched most of the talent out of Queensland and onto Sydney. Some marquee players were able to make just as much in Brisbane from sponsorships etc, without having to go to Sydney. Most then joined up at the Broncos.

The Wynnum side of the mid 80's was certainly a great side. Being a Tigers man through and through I draw your attention to the Easts side of 1983. A great side with many familiar names in it to many of you including a player who rarely gets a wrap anywhere but I still rate one of the most gifted players I have ever seen. Wayne Lindenberg. Souths were also very strong during the 80's with a team chock full of stars.

You will also find that the combined Brisbane side did fairly well most years in the Amco Cup (or whatever it was called in any given year). Adding further evidence that the BRL/QRL was a great comp, only lacking in poker machine revenue to add professionalism.

All this is just banter perhaps ... but the end result is an insight into what NSW people just simply don't want to believe. We hate cockroaches more than they can possibly fathom. And this is why, despite having as little as 25% (some years) of the playing talent to choose from over the years, we have been able to maintain our superb record against the numbers in SOO.

Another dynasty is well underway. And our modern-day heroes should be reminded regularly of their duty to Queensland to maintain the tradition.

Keep ignoring Queensland by all means ... either way the hatred of all things sky blue remains.

Oink !

 

[Canard]

I think you will find the QRL have a program of events commemerating 100 years of League.

And for example the Broncos v Cowboys match marked the 100th year anniversary of the game in our great state.

 

[Knight87]

The original poster poses a very good question ... kudos .... I'd love to hear David Gallop or somebody (squirm) come up with answers as to why QRL/BRL games aren't celebrated in this "wonderful" centenary year.

I was present at Grandfinals from age 6, 1976. My parents still tell embarrassing stories of how i used to cry under the seat as a child when Easts lost at Lang Park.

When the Broncos arrived in 1988, I was an 18 year old kid. I guess at that point I never really contemplated what they would do to the competition I had known and loved. Loved those Sunday afternoons at Langlands Park. Now I do understand what has been taken away and to some extent it disappoints me. Thats progress.

Sir Joh (long term criminal that he was) and the pokies leeched most of the talent out of Queensland and onto Sydney. Some marquee players were able to make just as much in Brisbane from sponsorships etc, without having to go to Sydney. Most then joined up at the Broncos.

The Wynnum side of the mid 80's was certainly a great side. Being a Tigers man through and through I draw your attention to the Easts side of 1983. A great side with many familiar names in it to many of you including a player who rarely gets a wrap anywhere but I still rate one of the most gifted players I have ever seen. Wayne Lindenberg. Souths were also very strong during the 80's with a team chock full of stars.

You will also find that the combined Brisbane side did fairly well most years in the Amco Cup (or whatever it was called in any given year). Adding further evidence that the BRL/QRL was a great comp, only lacking in poker machine revenue to add professionalism.

All this is just banter perhaps ... but the end result is an insight into what NSW people just simply don't want to believe. We hate cockroaches more than they can possibly fathom. And this is why, despite having as little as 25% (some years) of the playing talent to choose from over the years, we have been able to maintain our superb record against the numbers in SOO.

Another dynasty is well underway. And our modern-day heroes should be reminded regularly of their duty to Queensland to maintain the tradition.

Keep ignoring Queensland by all means ... either way the hatred of all things sky blue remains.

Oink !

Three questions in response to your brilliant post:

1) Did BRL players earn more than NSWRL players, at the time (before the Broncs came into the NSWRL comp)? Approx, how much did players earn those days in the 80's? I know they weren't earning hundreds of thousands of dollars like they do today and the huge third-party sponsorships weren't around back then (didn't come into league until about the mid 90s), but did the majority or all of the players earn enough to be able to play it full time (i.e. professionalism)? In what year did full-time professionalism come into league?

2) You say you were dissapointed when u look back at the events that have now transpired, in regards to the disintegration of the BRL comp. What do you think could've been done to make sure it was preserved and still going healthy and strong (even with Brisbane being admitted into the comp)? What does poker machines have anything to do with players moving to NSW? Why did Sir Joh outlaw them?

3) Where does the current Queensland Cup stand, in comparison to the former BRL? Is the QLD cup popular up there? What's the quality of play and overall support like in that? What can be done to improve the QLD Cup? Would you say its the next highest rugby league competition in Australia, after the NRL?

 

[pennywisealfie]

i would rate the queensland cup the 2nd best league in australia. Support from those old days still remain as well and of course the fact that all queensland cup sides have junior teams as well draws some support. I actually own a norths devils jersey and wear it with pride, even though im a big broncos fan and dont really like melbourne, i stayed with norths when norths were melbournes feeder.

 

[hellteam]

Unfortunately my team (Wests Panthers) doesnt exist in the QLD anymore. but i definately would say its the second strongest competition in Australia. Clubs such as Canberra are starting to see this by sending their reserve grade players up each week to play in the comp. In previous years when Norths and Toowomba were the Storm and Broncos reserve grade team, they struggled to be successful in the competition, often missing out on the finals altogether, because of the strength of established BRL clubs like Redcliffe, Easts and Ipswich to name a few

 

[Nuke]

I'll give you my guess as to why NSWRL records are considered 'the' records and not also BRL ones: The NSWRL competition started out in 1908 as a Sydney comp (+ Newcastle). Decades later, it expanded to include non-Sydney NSW teams (Penrith, then eventually Canberra and Illawarra). In 1988, it further again expanded to re-include Newcastle, and include 2 non-NSW teams in the Gold Coast and Brisbane. In 1995, the NSWRL became the national competition (ARL) and included another 2 Queensland teams (South Queensland and North Queensland), Perth (Western Reds), and a NZ side (Auckland). In 1998, the ARL became (after the breakaway SuperLeague teams re-joined the competition) the NRL, and you know the rest of the story.

The Sydney comp continued to grow beyond it's boundaries, while the BRL stayed -pretty much- a Brisbane comp.

That's my reasoning behind it anyway.

 

[Brycey]

Ive always wondered if Redcliffe were admitted into the NRL if their past premierships in the BRL would count.

 

[Brutus]

I was wondering, you know how when people say "rugby league matches played over the past 100 yrs in Australia", they're either referring to matches played in the NSWRL (1908-1994), ARL/SL (1995-97) and NRL (1998-today)? Why does not that include matches played in the QRL/BRL before 1988 (when the Broncos came into the comp)? Even though the NSWRL and QRL/BRL were the state comps of the respective states (NSW and QLD), why are NSWRL matches counted, yet BRL ones arent?

And also, on the topic of that (and I want an honest answer from those who were alive and remember at the time, when it was around), what was the quality of football like in the QRL/BRL pre 1988? How did it compare to the NSWRL? Did they get good crowds back then in the QRL/BRL? Was it popular? When did its popularity and crowd attendances start to diminish?

Because BRL matches were 5th rate compared to 1st rate classy affairs in Sydney played at places like Cumberland Oval.

 

[Brycey]

I'll give you my guess as to why NSWRL records are considered 'the' records and not also BRL ones: The NSWRL competition started out in 1908 as a Sydney comp (+ Newcastle). Decades later, it expanded to include non-Sydney NSW teams (Penrith, then eventually Canberra and Illawarra). In 1988, it further again expanded to re-include Newcastle, and include 2 non-NSW teams in the Gold Coast and Brisbane. In 1995, the NSWRL became the national competition (ARL) and included another 2 Queensland teams (South Queensland and North Queensland), Perth (Western Reds), and a NZ side (Auckland). In 1998, the ARL became (after the breakaway SuperLeague teams re-joined the competition) the NRL, and you know the rest of the story.

The Sydney comp continued to grow beyond it's boundaries, while the BRL stayed -pretty much- a Brisbane comp.

That's my reasoning behind it anyway.

The NSWRL did not become the ARL. The ARL has been around nearly as long as the NSWRL.

In 1994 the ARL were handed the administration and control of the domestic competition. The NSWRL still stands today as it did 100 years ago.

 

[Pigskin]

Three questions in response to your brilliant post:

1) Did BRL players earn more than NSWRL players, at the time (before the Broncs came into the NSWRL comp)? Approx, how much did players earn those days in the 80's? I know they weren't earning hundreds of thousands of dollars like they do today and the huge third-party sponsorships weren't around back then (didn't come into league until about the mid 90s), but did the majority or all of the players earn enough to be able to play it full time (i.e. professionalism)? In what year did full-time professionalism come into league?

2) You say you were dissapointed when u look back at the events that have now transpired, in regards to the disintegration of the BRL comp. What do you think could've been done to make sure it was preserved and still going healthy and strong (even with Brisbane being admitted into the comp)? What does poker machines have anything to do with players moving to NSW? Why did Sir Joh outlaw them?

3) Where does the current Queensland Cup stand, in comparison to the former BRL? Is the QLD cup popular up there? What's the quality of play and overall support like in that? What can be done to improve the QLD Cup? Would you say its the next highest rugby league competition in Australia, after the NRL?

1. There was without doubt more money to be made by more players in the NSWRL (poker machines) but what I meant was a group of elite players were able to make just as much in Brisbane. There was no need to move to Sydney. The Broncos gathered most if not all of these players up in 1988.

Lets take the obvious example - Wally Lewis. He was NSWRL standard in the late 70's and part of the inaugural winning SOO team in 1980. Numerous attempts to lure him to Sydney failed and he played most of his career in the BRL. He was the biggest name in the game in Qld and there was no need for him to move south. I'm sure he did just fine money-wise.

Everything is relative to today. Your marquee players earned "good" money compared to the average man in the street in the BRL when you factored in sponsorships and business interests. Anybody that basically made an Origin team that wasn't playing in Sydney, you could assume was making reasonable to good money. I think you'll find most players in the Sydney comp in the early to mid 80's had full time jobs.

Impossible to put figures on what they earnt. Your average wage in society at the time may have been 10-15k.

2. I'm a traditionalist I guess in a world moving super fast. What I miss about the BRL is no different to what I presume many in Sydney miss about the old NSWRL.

If you live in Sydney a game at Kogarah in the old days was no different to a game at Langlands Park. St George vs Cronulla ... Easts vs Valleys.

The suburban grounds, the picnic atmosphere, the smell of linament and pies at the ground, identifying with your players as people who lived locally in a lot of cases, player loyalty, kicking the ball on the field after the game, kicking the ball at half-time!, the tribalism of playing your arch enemy teams. Nobody will convince me that this scenario isn't better for kids (and adults for that matter) than concrete jungle super stadiums, and a different roster on your team every year.

If you weren't at the game, chances are you weren't going to see it ... its that simple.

Poker machines in NSW meant the Leagues clubs in Sydney had money, and the leagues clubs in Brisbane didn't. Sydney clubs could buy Brisbane talent, and not vice-versa. The more money being paid to the football team, meant more time could be spent on preparing teams for just that ... playing football. Like today and the age of professionalism, yet on a lesser scale.

My flippant remark about Sir Joh being a criminal was not really aimed at this point. Lets face it ... socially, poker machines are bad news for many in society. Sir Joh being a criminal is another topic and mostly subjective, for another time perhaps. Peronally, I despise the man and his politics ... but as much as it irks me to say it, perhaps he was somewhat of a visionary in not allowing poker machines into Queensland. Funny how moves are now underway to go the other way, and I firmly believe they could be outlawed again nation-wide in the next 20 years or more. The social issues associated with poker machines cannot be ignored. Clubs need to get their head around this fact and develop alternative means of supporting their footy teams ... another debate for another thread perhaps ... but to think anything else is just head in the sand stuff.

Nothing could have been done to stop the disintegration of the BRL. Same as nothing could have been done to stop the disintegration of the old NSWRL. Its all just progress. The NSWRL just was able to hang on a little longer ... population and money. Mega-corporations and television run the game as we all know ... National competitions drawing vast audiences is what its all about nowadays ... inevitable really due our countries relatively small population. Doesn't mean that one can't be disappointed in the way its all progressed. It has often been said we here in Australia are just 20 years behind America. Pretty true I think.

3. The Queensland Cup in the main has been regionalised. Very few of the "old" teams still exist. Only the strong ones. None of the old rivalries exist with any heart.

All teams change allegiances to varying NRL teams at the drop of a hat. Personnel change yearly. I don't care to look it up, but I think currently the Broncos have 4 feeder sides in the QCup. Before that it was Aspley, before that Toowoomba and there are probly more I can't think of.

How on earth are the people of Toowoomba going to relate to a Broncos feeder team consisting of a group of players on the fringe of the NRL that have zero to do with Toowoomba ? That always amused me that association. I'm surprised they got the 500 people to games that they got, but I guess the players have friends and families, so thats how.

How can supporters possibly relate to this ? They can't. Crowd figures under these circumstances are as you would expect. Poor. The fact that all these sides are feeding one NRL team or another probably puts the competition on a par at least with whatever the Premier League is in Sydney nowadays. Not sure where the U20's National comp fits in. But with coaches openly admitting their "standby" players would be playing in the QCup rather than the NYC suggests its inferior.



This is just how I see the state of affairs. Don't pretend to know everything nor be right on everything.

Oink !

ps Brutus a few posts above - keep stoking that fire mate ... well done