What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Rebooting the prequels and what to change

bileduct

Coach
Messages
17,832
Those are really good. Just be warned the guy who does it (mike stoklasa) is doing a pretty annoying voice thing because he didnt think anyone would listen to him nerd rant about star wars for an hour just as himself so he did a character.
Haha, watching them now. I love this guy.

"f**k you, Rick Berman! You're ruining this too?"
 

LESStar58

Referee
Messages
25,496
Thinking about the coming awesomeness this Thursday and why they will blow the prequels away; I think that the downfall of the prequels can, in part, be attributed to the fact that the only established charactes who you already knew were Yoda and Obi Wan. Yes, R2D2 and C3PO are in them too but they are just sidekicks. You "knew" who Anakin was and you know what eventually becomes of him but there hadn't been any space dedicated to Anakin (not Vader) until Episode 1. Same with Boba Fett in Episode 2 but you aren't meant to know anything about him. That's why he was so bad ass and so loved in the Holy Trilogy. You also knew Princess Leia had an adoptive father in the OT but how did he end up adopting her? There may have been some literature during the course of the OT that mentions him by name but I don't recall.

Same with Owen and Beru; they were relatively minor players in Episode 4 and Episode 2 and while I think the backstory of how they came to be related to Anakin was a bit weak at least they established the relationship and its a lot more believable than Owen being Obi Wan's brother (as mentioned in the Return of the jedi novelisation). Oh, and Chewbacca but I think this was deliberately done. Lucas always said that he envisioned the final land battle of Jedi taking place on a planet of Wookies rather than Ewoks so he made up for that by having a set piece/action sequence in Sith. And you can't really have Kashyyk without showing Chewy.

I remember being a kid and wondering how The Emperor had managed to become The Emperor and how he managed to be more powerful than Vader. And you KNEW from Darth Sidious' first apperance in TPM that it WAS The Emperor. So while it was good to see Palpatine and Vader's relationship fleshed out there wasn't a great deal of mystery about it.

But I digress; aside from those established main and supporting characters I think most people just had a hard time wrapping their heads around all these new people that populate the universe and what purpose they served . In the sequel trilogy, you already KNOW who the key players are and while we don't know the full plot at this stage you KNOW the relationship between the characters and what purpose they serve.

But going beyond that; this wouldn't be the movie that we are expecting it to be if the key players (Han, Luke and Leia) were just dropped in to the plot and expected to carry on as normal. They have to DEVELOP and EVOLVE to serve the story and I don't think there's going to be a better example of this than Han. He goes from "hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid" to "its true. All of it. The dark side. A Jedi. They're real."

With the plot of the movie revolving around trying to find the reclusive last Jedi, this makes me wonder how this change in attitude from Han means about the development of Han's relationship with Luke and how it fits the new film. Is he genuinely concerned for the whereabouts and well being of his friend and what motivates him to help Rey and Finn find him?

Its also rumored that Han and Leia are estranged when the movie kicks off. Why? Something to do with their kids? Something to do with Luke? Something to do with Han's secret wife (yes. It's in the new comic canon)?

And on Leia; she is a Skywalker so is strong with The Force. But in episode 7 she is a general. Could she have been a Jedi? If not then why not? By the time she finds out in Jedi that she has a power that she has never understood she would have been in her early to mid 20s. Luke started training at the same age despite being "too old" . Was it too late for her start? Did she train in some capacity in that 30 year time frame and did she sever connection to the Force for some reason? Something to do with one of her kids going bad? Something to do with her twin brother going bad?

And finally Luke. Why is he hiding? What happened to him? Is he evil? Did he have children? I can't even speculate on him and his relationships with the others because his character is being so well protected all anyone can do is speculate as to what his role in the new film and trilogy is (Hamill has already said he is in Episode 8 and has already started filming). I guess I'll break it all down and speculate on his future involvement in the wee hours of Thursday morning.

So I'd wager that the average movie goer and Star Wars tragic alike are going to relate more to a story with these established characters than to a film where the seeds have to be planted all over again. Even with all the characters and cameos that Abrams is throwing in for the sake of nostalgia (as Lucas did with some of the aforementioned chatacters in the prequel trilogy) people are going to relate (maybe us who are more steeped in the mythology of the films than a regular movie goer).

Take Admiral Ackbar for instance; these days id say he is more widely know not just in the Star Wars canon but in popular culture in general thanks to Family Guy! "Its a trap" to me is on par with "you're gonna need a bigger boat" as a throwaway line in common venecular. Oh, and i myself got a little bit excited when I saw Nien Numb flying an X Wing in one of the tv spots. I always knew he was going to make an apperance but I'm used to him copiloting the Millennium Falcon with Lando so I had a bit of a fan boy moment.

At the same time, there might be one bad performance from one of the new characters that might make or break the movie for some people. What if Daisey Ridley turns in a performance on par with Sofia Copolla in Godfather 3? From the looks of things it looks like she is going to be the focus of the film and perhaps the new trilogy. If she's not convincing or if the story (in terms of Origins/relationships) that has been developed for her is weak (midichlorians, anybody?) then what does this mean for the well-being of the new trilogy? I mean, people are going to see them anyway but in terms of criticism episodes 8 and 9 might have lower than normal expectations placed on them based on the strength/weakness of TFA

Another thing that strikes me as interesting is something Abrams said in a few interviews; when you first watched Star Wars there was nothing that hinted at the plot twists and relationships that are revealed in Empire and Jedi. There is the relationship between Vader and Obi Wan that you know existed but you didn't know the backstory of that relationship. Obi Wan talks about The Clone Wars but in the context of that film you don't know what the Clone Wars were. You don't even find out that Darth Vader actually had a "real" name and that it was Anakin Skywalker until Jedi.

So there's a large element of the original film where you watch it as kind of a stand alone film (remember in 1977 it was expected to be a flop and the sequels as we know them were no certainty to get made) and when you finally get around to watching Empire it almost plays out like the story and script was developed off the strength of the events of the previous film rather than developing it from the story/treatment that Lucas had written however many years before... and the story went through so many incarnations I never can tell if he ever had the whole thing planned or if he made it up as he went along. Of course by the time he made the prequels the Clone Wars was a focal point because he had already established that conflict in the first film and i don't think he could have got away with doing the prequels if he hadn't done the Clone Wars could it would have been a massive plot hole and as we know the prequel trilogy is already full of them.

So with Episode 7 there has been so much time elapsed between Jedi and the "present day" that there is going to be a similar narrative to A New Hope where events are eluded to but you don't know much about them because they are not played out on screen. Of course there will be events eluded to that you do know took place because you've seen all the movies ("There are stories about what happened...") but in terms of developing the arcs for Finn, Rey, Poe, Kylo Ren there will be events that can't or won't be shown on screen so I think that Episode 8 will be largely built on the story developed in TFA (its already been reported that Rian Johnson had already seen an early cut or unfinished version of TFA before he started writing his script) and so on for Episode 9. and seeing as they don't have the luxury to make saga films to fill in all the blanks i thibk all the backstory stuff will eventually be covered in books, comics, TV shows etc.
 
Last edited:

LESStar58

Referee
Messages
25,496
Then of course, he should still get himself involved with Amidala, but it needs to be handled more subtly and they ought to do it all in more secrecy. Then in episode III as she's heavily pregnant with the twins she'll be murdered by Darth Maul in an attack on the Capital in which several other senators and other planetary leaders are also killed in an attack designed by Palpatine to appear like as though it's orchestrated from the federations enemies. Amidalas two babies being saved by doctors whilst they can't save her, and the federation will descend into chaos.

I've only just picked up on this but you've just widened one of the biggest plot holes in the entire saga.

"How?", I hear you ask. Well, cast your mind back to 1983.

EXT- EWOK VILLAGE, ENDOR- NIGHT

Luke: Leia, do you remember your mother? Your real mother?

Leia: Just a little bit. She died when I was very young.

Luke: what do you remember?

Leia: Just images really. Feelings.

Luke: Tell me.

Leia: She was very beautiful. Kind... but sad.

I think Lucas killing off Padme immediately after giving birth to the twins was pretty weak in the grand scheme of things as its fairly obvious that Leia couldn't remember her mother from such a brief encounter.

I can't imagine the doctors, medic droids or whatever taking time out from trying to save a mortally wounded woman just to give her enough time to see her new born twins.

Instead of killing her off I would have had her running away with Obi Wan after defeating Anakin. A decision is made to split up the twins. Obi Wan takes Luke to Tatooine to be cares for by Owen and Beru but Leia stays with Padme on Alderaan. During this time, Padme is in a deep funk bought about by her failure as a senator and the loss of her love, Anakin and she will eventually die while Leia is still very young. Say five or six years old. Through Leia's eyes she can witness her mother's affection and her sadness but she never manages to find out why she's always so sad. Padme dies and Bail Organa and his wife adopt Leia.
 

LESStar58

Referee
Messages
25,496
Speaking of which, I might even go so far as to suggest that it would have served the story better if somehow Anakin doesn't even KNOW that his wife is pregnant. I mean, Leia is standing right in front of Vader at the beginning of Star Wars and "The Chosen One" cannot even sense that it is his own daughter. His own son is on the Death Star with Obi Wan and he can't even sense that. Both are strong with The Force, right?

Like I said a couple of posts back; when you first watch A New Hope you have no idea that the farm boy and the princess are brother and sister or that the bad guy will end up being their father. So if Vader manages to go through the entire first act without getting wise (although there is that one line "the force is strong with this one" during the Death Star battle which could mean Vader senses SOMETHING) what do you suppose transpires in between ANH and Empire where Vader learns that he fathered the pilot who layed waste to the Death Star.

Even now when I watch Jedi I always get the sense that during the scene where Luke is hiding from Vader under the throne room where he senses Luke's thoughts being focussed on his friends. Especially his.... SISTER. It's like Vader reads Luke's thoughts and only finds out moments before dying that he has a daughter. But on the other side of the coin; in the prequels we know that Padme is pregnant but there is no mention of her carrying twins until the scene where she ultimately dies. So vader knows he has A CHILD and not CHILDREN so I guess it's conceivable that he thinks Luke is his only offspring up to a point

That's also something that bothered me about Padme in 3; I've never seen a woman pregnant with twins have a baby bump that small! I am a twin and I've seen photos of when my mum was pregnant with me and my sister (no I wasn't named Luke on purpose and no my sister's name is NOT Leia) and she was huge!

Star Wars: where you can destroy entire planets but gynecological advancements are nowhere near as advaced as they should be!
 
Last edited:
Messages
4,370
I just finished watching the prequels and whilst they're not great they're not as bad as they're made out to be either. I guess I'm a little biased because I grew up with this trilogy and the original one and as a kid they were all as good as each other. Watching them now I can see their many flaws but I still get the nostalgic factor many get from the original trilogy.

I say just leave them, it'd be too hard to reboot the entire trilogy and I whilst it would do well financially I don't think it would be enough to give Disney a viable enough excuse to do it.
 

Storm13

Juniors
Messages
1,606
I'm sure when George Lucas signed away Star Wars that his movies would remain cannon and not to be rebooted (Prequels) As we all know the sequel trilogy is still loosely based off of his treatments.
 

strong_latte

Juniors
Messages
1,665
I'm sure when George Lucas signed away Star Wars that his movies would remain cannon and not to be rebooted (Prequels) As we all know the sequel trilogy is still loosely based off of his treatments.

This has been covered. He didn't. Apparently the current 6 aren't Disneys sole property right now, but they will be in 2029, at which time they could rewrite so Armidala was a Sith Lord if they liked.
 

LESStar58

Referee
Messages
25,496
I've been spending a lot of time since I've been unemployed playing Star Wars Commander on my phone and I've been picking up on some small but important details. They use a whole variety of prequel vehicles and droids (Clone War era transportation and droidekkas) but have also added creatures and planets from episode 7 with the updates.

What I find even odder is that while the previous EU has been relegated disney are still managing to work in familiar features in to their newer products. In Commander if you side with the Imperials you can manufacture Dark Troopers from original Dark Forces video game. Also from that game you can manufacture the same model space craft as the Moldy Crow which is Kyle Katarn's ship. And also the troop transport the Rebels use is a YT-2400 corellian freighter which is Dash Rendar's ship The Outrider from Shadows Of The Empire.

So that's why I am of the opinion that it won't happen. Disney have gone to so much trouble to create a new mythology yet using some elements of the EU and prequel trilogies so at least there's a degree of familiarity with the fans that it would make no sense to do any of the movies again. My opinion is that if the prequels can be rebooted then what's to stop Disney redoing the original movies?

Even the Disney Infinity games are using Hayden Christensen and Ewan McGregors likenesses. Redoing the sequels means recasting Anakin and Obi Wan yet in Disney's eyea HC IS Anakin and McGregor IS obi-wan. Change the actors then you change the likeness which means doing the gamea over again as well.
 

LESStar58

Referee
Messages
25,496
I've been spending a lot of time since I've been unemployed playing Star Wars Commander on my phone and I've been picking up on some small but important details. They use a whole variety of prequel vehicles and droids (Clone War era transportation and droidekkas) but have also added creatures and planets from episode 7 with the updates.

What I find even odder is that while the previous EU has been relegated disney are still managing to work in familiar features in to their newer products. In Commander if you side with the Imperials you can manufacture Dark Troopers from original Dark Forces video game. Also from that game you can manufacture the same model space craft as the Moldy Crow which is Kyle Katarn's ship. And also the troop transport the Rebels use is a YT-2400 corellian freighter which is Dash Rendar's ship The Outrider from Shadows Of The Empire.

So that's why I am of the opinion that it won't happen. Disney have gone to so much trouble to create a new mythology yet using some elements of the EU and prequel trilogies so at least there's a degree of familiarity with the fans that it would make no sense to do any of the movies again. My opinion is that if the prequels can be rebooted then what's to stop Disney redoing the original movies?

Even the Disney Infinity games are using Hayden Christensen and Ewan McGregors likenesses. Redoing the sequels means recasting Anakin and Obi Wan yet in Disney's eyea HC IS Anakin and McGregor IS obi-wan. Change the actors then you change the likeness which means doing the gamea over again as well.

I could also add the apperance of Clone Captain Rex (was he in the clone wars animated series as well?) in season 2 of Rebels on Disney XD. if they redo the prequels and the Clone wars is part of that how do we explain a clone template that isn't Jake The Muss even though Disney acknowledge this in one of their tent pole shows that is part of their overall vision for the franchise.
 

strong_latte

Juniors
Messages
1,665
Watching Episode 3 now. Half way there!

You sir, are a very dedicated Star Wars fan. Episode 3 is probably the only one I don't constantly cringe at though to be fair (well, apart from terms like "younglings", the dialogue in the end fight and the geniused way they end it - seriously "the high ground"? What the f**k ...)
 
Messages
17,035
You sir, are a very dedicated Star Wars fan. Episode 3 is probably the only one I don't constantly cringe at though to be fair (well, apart from terms like "younglings", the dialogue in the end fight and the geniused way they end it - seriously "the high ground"? What the f**k ...)


General consensus is that episode 3 is the best of the prequels by far.
 

LESStar58

Referee
Messages
25,496
You sir, are a very dedicated Star Wars fan. Episode 3 is probably the only one I don't constantly cringe at though to be fair (well, apart from terms like "younglings", the dialogue in the end fight and the geniused way they end it - seriously "the high ground"? What the f**k ...)

This weekend has been the first time in recent memory that I have watched the prequels but it is part of my binge before E7. All going well the end credits on Jedi should be rolling at about 1030 on Wednesday night then its in the car and off to the cinema.

I will probably do this whenever a new film comes out. Next year I'll do the prequels over 3 days leading up to the release of Rogue One then do episodes 4 through 7 on dvd (will buy TFA on blu ray even though i refuse to buy the OT blu rays). When 8 comes out I'll do;

1. Phantom Menace
2. Attack of The Clones
3. Revenge of The Sith
4. Rogue One
5. New Hope
6. Empire
7. Jedi
8. The Force Awakens
9. Episode 8

When the other spin offs come out I'll just insert them chronologically in to viewing order. If they do an Old Republic Movie I'll watch that before the prequel trilogy.

It pretty much the same way I watch the Indy flicks; Temple Of Doom first is my preference but I'm flexi in that regard. The events of Temple of Doom take place before Raiders.
 

SpaceMonkey

Immortal
Messages
37,902
I've been spending a lot of time since I've been unemployed playing Star Wars Commander on my phone and I've been picking up on some small but important details. They use a whole variety of prequel vehicles and droids (Clone War era transportation and droidekkas) but have also added creatures and planets from episode 7 with the updates.

What I find even odder is that while the previous EU has been relegated disney are still managing to work in familiar features in to their newer products. In Commander if you side with the Imperials you can manufacture Dark Troopers from original Dark Forces video game. Also from that game you can manufacture the same model space craft as the Moldy Crow which is Kyle Katarn's ship. And also the troop transport the Rebels use is a YT-2400 corellian freighter which is Dash Rendar's ship The Outrider from Shadows Of The Empire.

So that's why I am of the opinion that it won't happen. Disney have gone to so much trouble to create a new mythology yet using some elements of the EU and prequel trilogies so at least there's a degree of familiarity with the fans that it would make no sense to do any of the movies again. My opinion is that if the prequels can be rebooted then what's to stop Disney redoing the original movies?

Even the Disney Infinity games are using Hayden Christensen and Ewan McGregors likenesses. Redoing the sequels means recasting Anakin and Obi Wan yet in Disney's eyea HC IS Anakin and McGregor IS obi-wan. Change the actors then you change the likeness which means doing the gamea over again as well.

That all makes sense if we're talking about rebooting the prequels NOW- but I'm thinking it will; be something that they'll do more in the long term, after 2025 or so. The prequels won;t be near as fresh in everyones minds by then.
 

LESStar58

Referee
Messages
25,496
That all makes sense if we're talking about rebooting the prequels NOW- but I'm thinking it will; be something that they'll do more in the long term, after 2025 or so. The prequels won;t be near as fresh in everyones minds by then.

I'm just going around in circles with my reasonings as to why they won't do it so I'll close with a metaphor that most people here will easily understand;

Remaking the prequels is the worst idea since Greedo shooting first. Greedo shooting first served no purpose in the grand scheme of things... just like a reboot of the prequels.
 

Zoidberg

First Grade
Messages
6,175
This weekend has been the first time in recent memory that I have watched the prequels but it is part of my binge before E7. All going well the end credits on Jedi should be rolling at about 1030 on Wednesday night then its in the car and off to the cinema.

I will probably do this whenever a new film comes out. Next year I'll do the prequels over 3 days leading up to the release of Rogue One then do episodes 4 through 7 on dvd (will buy TFA on blu ray even though i refuse to buy the OT blu rays). When 8 comes out I'll do;

1. Phantom Menace
2. Attack of The Clones
3. Revenge of The Sith
4. Rogue One
5. New Hope
6. Empire
7. Jedi
8. The Force Awakens
9. Episode 8

When the other spin offs come out I'll just insert them chronologically in to viewing order. If they do an Old Republic Movie I'll watch that before the prequel trilogy.

It pretty much the same way I watch the Indy flicks; Temple Of Doom first is my preference but I'm flexi in that regard. The events of Temple of Doom take place before Raiders.

I was going to do something similar with the Marvel Universe films but it only happened before the 1st Avengers.

Star Wars will be the same, too many movies to watch and not enough time. I'm watching the current 6 at th moment and may do the same before Ep 8 and 9, not with the Anthology films though.
 

LESStar58

Referee
Messages
25,496
I was going to do something similar with the Marvel Universe films but it only happened before the 1st Avengers.

Star Wars will be the same, too many movies to watch and not enough time. I'm watching the current 6 at th moment and may do the same before Ep 8 and 9, not with the Anthology films though.

What is the Chronology of the Marvel films? Iron Man is the start, right?
 

Storm13

Juniors
Messages
1,606
This has been covered. He didn't. Apparently the current 6 aren't Disneys sole property right now, but they will be in 2029, at which time they could rewrite so Armidala was a Sith Lord if they liked.

Exactly, by that time if they wanted to redo the prequels that would be just as likely to do the originals. Which in the end serves no purpose.
 

LESStar58

Referee
Messages
25,496
This has been covered. He didn't. Apparently the current 6 aren't Disneys sole property right now, but they will be in 2029, at which time they could rewrite so Armidala was a Sith Lord if they liked.

Intersting read. Turns out the current six will not ALL be Disney's sole property. Ever.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars

In 2012, The Walt Disney Company acquired Lucasfilm for $4.05 billion and announced three new Star Wars films, with the first film, Star Wars: The Force Awakens, planned for release on December 18, 2015.[5] 20th Century Fox retains the physical distribution rights to the first two Star Wars trilogies, owning permanent rights for the original 1977 film and holding the rights to Episodes I–III, V and VI until May 2020.[6][7] The Walt Disney Studios owns digital distribution rights to all the Star Wars films, excluding A New Hope.[7][8]

So all of this talk about rights appears to have everything to do DISTRIBUTION rights and nothing to do with giving Disney artistic license to modify, remake or otherwise tamper with the existing films. Sure this is just from a Wikipedia page but there's enough here to get the story straight as far as "rights" go.

So Fox can package the first 6 films to their hearts content in whatever format and packaging they see fit (the new steelbook blu rays for instance) to try and milk as much money out of them until 2020 by which time the sequel trilogy will be finished and will be able to milk A New Hope until the cows come home unless Fox sell the rights to Disney. Similar to what Disney have done with the Indiana Jones films where they purchased the distribution rights from Paramount... though how they would preserve the gimmick of havjng the Paramount mountain superimposed to eventually fad away to the mountain/molehill that makes up the opening shot of the films.

I can ascertain from this that we will never see a complete dvd/BR box set of all 9 Star Wars saga films if the one movie that started it all is being distributed by a totally different entiry to the remaining 8 films.
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Top