Retention of Under 20's-17s

[Stake Removed]

Yes we won the comp in 2016, but the concern i have is the amount of talented players we have lost before they have even reached First Grade or even got to the Jets.

We had that breakout year i believe 2015 when we won SG Ball & Harold Matthews, and having great regular season in 20's last year.

It seems we are losing some real quality to other clubs, we see now that First Grade are ageing and some of the players there not up to standard, has there been an issue with retention of younger players ???????

 

[Frenzy.]

It’s not so much about losing them Stake. Every club loses them.

It’s more about poor identification, who comes from the strong junior clubs, lack of opportunity, qualifications to the mean girls club and poor development

Example. Storm took Scott and in 3 years he has become a top echelon centre. He’s going to get even better. He also had to overcome a broken leg. Maybe he wanted to go, maybe we wanted to keep him and they wanted him more so paid more but that would be at the crux of it if true. Sharks didnt identify his worth so let him go.

 

[Weaponhead]

Same with Addo-Carr. He wasn't seen as a first grader so moved search if opportunity.

 

[shaggs]

Also depends on where they end up.
A lot of these kids will leave for an opportunity and never go anywhere.

Ending up in the storm system is like Christmas everyday.
Even if you don’t make it there, you are seen as better and more desirable.

Ryan Tandy used to say that just playing for 2 years at the storm doubled his worth on the market.
Addo Carr would have fallen out of the tiger system and maybe got another chance somewhere, but he fell in the lap of the storm and boom, one of the most electric wingers around. Mentally he needed the storm.

As a club the sharks don’t produce winners. They produce “tryers”.
The club accepts mediocrity and has done its entire existence.
Sure we won the Comp In 2016, but after having strong juniors for the last 4 years, none have stepped up into sharks nrl players.

Now we are seeing this. Now we are seeing an old squad with old ideas and a non evolving coach. Melbourne are the bench mark, for making small changes, introducing a couple of young guys each year to keep the squad strong.

 

[Frank Discussion]

It’s not so much about losing them Stake. Every club loses them.

It’s more about poor identification, who comes from the strong junior clubs, lack of opportunity, qualifications to the mean girls club and poor development

Example. Storm took Scott and in 3 years he has become a top echelon centre. He’s going to get even better. He also had to overcome a broken leg. Maybe he wanted to go, maybe we wanted to keep him and they wanted him more so paid more but that would be at the crux of it if true. Sharks didnt identify his worth so let him go.

Not identified? What the hell are you talking about?

They wanted to sign Scott and offered him a long term deal with very decent money. He doesn't like Flano and went to the Storm for less money- rightly identifying his game would likely develop better there after he squeezed every drop out of the Sharks juniors system.

You say there are development issues? The sharks junior development system is one of the best in the country and the results are there to prove it. Despite having a relatively small nursery and bugger all big polynesians our teams regularly do well and the reason that other clubs go so hard after Sharks juniors is that the program is so highly regarded. Jersey Flegg are undefeated. Matts and Ball in the finals. There are only 4 teams in A grade in each of those age groups yet the coaches consistently get results.

 

[shaggs]

@Frank Discussion do you think there is a point where all the good that is done in Matt’s, Ball and now flegg stops and cease to matter?

The young blokes get to a point and then reach a dead end. They look elsewhere. They might play nrl.

What do you think needs to be done and how can this pathway be achieved?

You must agree the nrl team is old and stale. The guys Brought to the club aren’t young up and comers.
Not sure how to word it, but we need refreshment. And constant yearly refreshments.
Small sips each year to stop us needing a big drink .

 

[Stake Removed]

We lost 2 guns last year apparently to Manly & Parra, both teams made the finals but these guys see better chance at different club, and both i believe play in the halves

 

[Frank Discussion]

We lost 2 guns last year apparently to Manly & Parra, both teams made the finals but these guys see better chance at different club, and both i believe play in the halves

One of those was Luke Metcalf and it was a ridiculous decision for him to go to Manly. He lives in Engadine and took marginally better money (like single digit percentage) to go to the Eagles and now spends half his life in the car.

He is a hell of a talent but has yet to crack first grade there.

 

[Frank Discussion]

@Frank Discussion do you think there is a point where all the good that is done in Matt’s, Ball and now flegg stops and cease to matter?

The young blokes get to a point and then reach a dead end. They look elsewhere. They might play nrl.

What do you think needs to be done and how can this pathway be achieved?

You must agree the nrl team is old and stale. The guys Brought to the club aren’t young up and comers.
Not sure how to word it, but we need refreshment. And constant yearly refreshments.
Small sips each year to stop us needing a big drink .

The issue is that the gap between Flegg and the NRL is enormous. There is only so much the junior coaches can do and then the players step up to the full time squad which is NRL/Newtown.

The arrangement with Newtown is problematic and stymies development in itself.

This is a problem which is shared by all clubs and poaching is rife. And although we have lost a few players we have gained plenty. Our best credentialed young rep player (Val) we nabbed off the cows. There are big wraps on Uele and he was poached. The origin pathways has identified Brailey for a few years down the track and he is a local. Swings and Roundabouts.

I agree that the NRL side is stale but on paper the likes of Gallen, Lewis, Graham, Dugan etc etc should be killing it and none of the stocks in reserve are at that level. It's a fact.

 

[Stake Removed]

One of those was Luke Metcalf and it was a ridiculous decision for him to go to Manly. He lives in Engadine and took marginally better money (like single digit percentage) to go to the Eagles and now spends half his life in the car.

He is a hell of a talent but has yet to crack first grade there.

I believe the player is Jarrod Salmon i think that went to Parra

 

[shaggs]

The issue is that the gap between Flegg and the NRL is enormous. There is only so much the junior coaches can do and then the players step up to the full time squad which is NRL/Newtown.

The arrangement with Newtown is problematic and stymies development in itself.

This is a problem which is shared by all clubs and poaching is rife. And although we have lost a few players we have gained plenty. Our best credentialed young rep player (Val) we nabbed off the cows. There are big wraps on Uele and he was poached. The origin pathways has identified Brailey for a few years down the track and he is a local. Swings and Roundabouts.

I agree that the NRL side is stale but on paper the likes of Gallen, Lewis, Graham, Dugan etc etc should be killing it and none of the stocks in reserve are at that level. It's a fact.

Do you think having your own reserves would help??
Financially it’s an issue.

 

[Frank Discussion]

Do you think having your own reserves would help??
Financially it’s an issue.

Absolutely it would but that is the rare exception to the rule these days.

 

[Stake Removed]

Do you think having your own reserves would help??
Financially it’s an issue.

It would have to help as no outside input, with Jets they would have to get say on so many players, plus structure they play would not be same or similiar to first grade

 

[Surely]

They wrecked the system when they dumped reserves and under 23’s

 

[carcharias]

They wrecked the system when they dumped reserves and under 23’s

Reserve grade was perfect for getting young dudes ready.

 

[Surely]

Going to endeavour field and watching 3 games was also perfect.

I guess we lost it all when they had to accomodate a bunch of banjo pluckers and sheep shaggers

 

[carcharias]

Going to endeavour field and watching 3 games was also perfect.

I guess we lost it all when they had to accomodate a bunch of banjo pluckers and sheep shaggers

I got to play before first grade once because the banjo player didn’t have a reserve grade team.
Under 19’s we were
It was at Belmore
Dragons v Gold Coast seagulls
Flano was playing for Dragons
My mate drove us in his mums car ... it got stolen from the car park.

 

[bluefox68]

I got to play before first grade once because the banjo player didn’t have a reserve grade team.
Under 19’s we were
It was at Belmore
Dragons v Gold Coast seagulls
Flano was playing for Dragons
My mate drove us in his mums car ... it got stolen from the car park.

Noice!

 

[RUBIKS]

Do you think having your own reserves would help??
Financially it’s an issue.

In addition to a coach willing to give players a crack?

If I was a junior, or more importantly a parent of a junior, I'd be telling them to sign elsewhere unless there was a vacant position where I/my son played.

We know Flanno is risk averse and prefers anyone with first grade experience over someone untested.

I can't think of a rookie who has been given a go over an incumbent who wasn't injured, retired, on his way out the door or a stadium full of fans calling for someone to be dumped.

He's slowly changed for the better, however I'm sure there's still that perception that you won't get a go. Grass is greener and all that.

 

[Surely]

There needs to be a position available

For example With a fully fit pack who are you leaving out ?

The backline , he’s brought Katoa up, unfortunately he was injured.

Ramien gets a go when Dugan shifts to fullback.