Ridiculing Religion 2 - The Ridiculining

Discussion in 'Four Corners' started by gUt, Jan 21, 2013.

  1. Collateral

    Collateral Coach

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    Lol, you know Spock is beat when he starts cracking out the emojis to support his view. Very Mong esque.
     
  2. Mr Spock!

    Mr Spock! Coach

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    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    :p
     
  3. _Johnsy

    _Johnsy Referee

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    55 pages arguing over someone's imaginary friend. I LOL'd
     
  4. Apey

    Apey Moderator Staff Member

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    There is a lot of subtle God of the Gaps going on in this thread lately; even some God works in mysterious ways. People love to use God as an empty canvas that can be manipulated to argue anything they like. That is the problem with arguing from the supernatural; you can ascribe any nonsensical attributes or capabilities you like because by definition it doesn't have to satisfy any natural laws, reasoning or logic.

    For example, when someone argues they have a problem with God or God's actions from a natural perspective it is hand-waved away from a supernatural position that God transcends everything natural and therefore doesn't have to abide by any concepts from the real world. I'm sure it makes sense to them but to the rest of us it is an utterly useless contribution. It's very easy to have God as the answer to everything when "the nature of God" can be anything you like it to be. I'm sure Snoop sees this a massive pro of his position; the God solution answers all the questions that otherwise can't currently be answered! You have a problem with God? It doesn't matter, because he is God, therefore whatever questionable thing he has said or done is not questionable at all because he is God and with that comes being always right and knowing better than us. God can do no wrong by definition.

    Unfortunately, arguing from the supernatural is like having someone come along speaking in their own invented language while you're trying to have an argument about something in English. You can't really make an argument against them because it's their language and they can make up the rules for their language (->God's features) to adapt to any opposition. How can they ever be wrong about anything when on your canvas (supernatural) anything goes? We simply just do not understand them. They can answer every question in a way that makes complete sense... to them, and anyone else they've shared their language with I suppose. The problem is there's no good reason for any of us to believe his language is worth listening to.

    All that being said, the argument to me always boils down to natural vs supernatural. If you believe that there is an element of supernatural in the world I don't see why you'd stop short at believing literally anything that can be explained as supernatural. After all, what logic does the supernatural require to abide by? If the theoretical event can happen with no natural explanation then why couldn't any?

    This is where the fundamental disagreement is for me. I do not believe there is any element of supernatural in this world. If I did, then there would be no good reason to disbelieve any other supernatural event. If there are fairies and unicorns then anything can happen under the blanket explanation of supernatural.
     
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  5. _Johnsy

    _Johnsy Referee

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    This always makes me laugh when people at court take the below oath.

    "that the evidence I shall give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me god"

    The truth based on a fictional text, asking a fictional person for help, you may as well be asking batman.
     
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  6. SBD82

    SBD82 Bench

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    This is amazing.
     
  7. Mr Spock!

    Mr Spock! Coach

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    I'll say....which schools still hit kids?
     
  8. SBD82

    SBD82 Bench

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    Shhhhhh. Don't call it hitting.

    They were very clear that they want you to call it "discipline".
     
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  9. gUt

    gUt Coach

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    Beliefs cause behaviours. The beauty of religion:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-...d-in-png-after-accusations-of-sorcery/9168876

    Young girl brutally tortured in PNG after accusations of sorcery

    A young girl has been brutally tortured in Papua New Guinea after being falsely accused of practising sorcery.

    The girl, believed to be about six years old, is now in hospital receiving treatment for extensive wounds and burns after members of her community tortured her with hot knives.

    Lutheran missionary Anton Lutz was in the party that rescued the girl from her remote village near Sirunki in Enga province in PNG's highlands late last week.

    "It's the first time that I've had to deal with anything with a young child like this and it's always confronting," Mr Lutz said.

    Targeted because of her mother
    The girl is believed to be the daughter of Kepari Leniata, who was burned alive in Mt Hagen in 2013, after also being accused of practicing sorcery, or sanguma, as it is a locally known.

    Her brutal death prompted news headlines around the world and drew pledges from PNG leaders to combat so-called sorcery killings but incidents of torture and murder have continued unabated.

    Mr Lutz said the torture of the girl was directly related to the accusations laid against her mother.

    "Part of the urban legend of sanguma, that women are witches, includes the belief that this thing can pass from mother to child," he said.

    "Of all the children in the village, this one was singled out because of her parentage and they believed she was responsible for bad things happening in the village."

    Governor calls for end to sorcery accusations
    The Governor of Enga province, Peter Ipatas, has appealed to people to, "help stamp out the practice of accusing people of sorcery and of torturing and murdering innocent people".

    In a statement Mr Ipatas said that in the past week alone there had been two incidents of sorcery accusations in Enga, and in the past month, 20 women were victims of sorcery-related violence.

    "This belief in 'sanguma' is not part of our law, our faith or our culture," he said.

    "We are smart enough to realise this is an imported and false belief which is only hurting our people and our communities."

    Research shows 30 'witches' killed every year
    The latest case of sorcery-related violence comes as new research reveals the extent of the problem in PNG.

    Academics at the Divine Word University, PNG's National Research Institute, and the Australian National University, found that over the past 20 years, there was an average of 72 incidents of torture, and 30 deaths reported in local newspapers annually.

    But one of the researchers, ANU's Dr Miranda Forsyth, said police had only arrested and charged a small number of the perpetrators.

    "We found that about only 15 per cent of cases that had been reported in the newspapers resulted in the trial of at least one suspect," she said.

    "Looking at all of those cases, about 15,000 perpetrators have been involved and of those only 115 individuals received sentences."
     
  10. gUt

    gUt Coach

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  11. _Johnsy

    _Johnsy Referee

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    Aaaaaaaand another one.

    http://www.mygc.com.au/former-catholic-priest-charged-seven-historic-child-sex-attacks/

    Former Catholic priest charged over seven historic child sex attacks
    November 22, 2017 6:23 pm in National by Jaydan Duck
    [​IMG]

    A FORMER Catholic priest has been arrested and charged with sexually and indecently assaulting seven teenage boys and young men over the space of two years in Sydney’s northern suburbs.

    The 58-year-old is accused of assaulting seven males ranging in age from 14 to 20 at an educational facility in the suburb of Dundas between 1987 and 1989.

    His arrest comes after detectives received a referral from the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse back in 2014.

    The former priest was arrested at his home in New Zealand earlier this year and, following a long extradition process, was returned to Australia today.

    He was taken to Mascot Police Station where he was charged with a long list of offences, including sexual assault, indecent assault person under 16 years and five counts of assault and commit act of indecency.

    The man was refused bail and will appear at Central Local Court later today.

    Police attached to Strike Force Colefax continue to investigate the allegations.
     
  12. gUt

    gUt Coach

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  13. Mr Spock!

    Mr Spock! Coach

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    You got that right......

    The Good Doctor believed it was more important to burn heretics than murderers.

    "With regard to heretics there are two points to be observed, one on their side, the other on the side of the Church. As for heretics their sin deserves banishment, not only from the Church by excommunication, but also from this world by death. To corrupt the faith, whereby the soul lives, is much graver than to counterfeit money, which supports temporal life. Since forgers and other malefactors are summarily condemned to death by the civil authorities, with much more reason may heretics as soon as they are convicted of heresy be not only excommunicated, but also justly be put to death.

    But on the side of the Church is mercy which seeks the conversion of the wanderer, and She condemns him not at once, but after the first and second admonition, as the Apostle directs. Afterwards, however, if he is still stubborn, the Church takes care of the salvation of others by separating him from the Church through excommunication, and delivers him to the secular court to be removed from this world by death."

    St Thomas Aquinas,
    Summa Theologiae: Volume 32, Consequences of Faith: 2a2ae. 8-16
     
  14. Surely

    Surely Moderator Staff Member

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    One Penitential warned, “Have you done what certain women are accustomed to do, that is to make some sort of device or implement in the shape of the male member of a size to match your sinful desire? If you have done this, you shall do penance for five years on legitimate holy days.”

    Lol


    And I don't have sex on thursdees fridee sundee or me days off
     
  15. gUt

    gUt Coach

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    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-...ster-resigns-over-work-on-the-sabbath/9195666

    Israeli health minister Yaakov Litzman resigns in protest over railway work on the Sabbath

    Israel's health minister has resigned, saying he opposed continued maintenance work on the country's railways on the Sabbath, when all labour is strictly prohibited by Jewish law.

    Yaakov Litzman, who heads a powerful ultra-Orthodox political party in Benjamin Netanyahu's coalition, said the work conducted publicly on the railway prompted him to resign.

    He said, "As a minister in Israel, I can't maintain the ministerial responsibility" of government-sanctioned Sabbath "desecration" that contradicts the "holy values of the Jewish people".

    While Mr Litzman said the weekend maintenance work on the railway was not warranted, Israel's railways authority said it must carry out work on Saturday so it did not disrupt transportation for thousands of Israelis during the work week.

    Railway and some other public works have occurred for years on the Sabbath, which begins at sundown on Friday.

    Mr Netanyahu said later at a government meeting he regretted Mr Litzman's decision, describing him as, "an excellent health minister who did much for the health of Israel's citizens".

    He said his coalition would not dissolve over the issue.

    Mr Netanyahu stressed the Sabbath was important to all Israelis — as is the need for "safe and continuous" transportation — and added he was convinced a solution could be found.

    The chasm between secular and orthodox
    Ultra-Orthodox parties provide Mr Netanyahu with support to stabilise his coalition, while the Government carves out large budgets for the minority community.

    They have traditionally acted as kingmakers in Israel's fractious coalition building and have in the past threatened to topple coalition governments by robbing them of their majority.

    The issue of desecration of the Sabbath has triggered crisis in the past and highlights the cultural chasm between Israel's ultra-Orthodox population and its secular majority.

    Much of Israel, including public transportation, comes to a halt at sundown on Friday, but few Israelis strictly observe the day of rest.

    Many restaurants, movie theatres, sporting events and national parks operate, and in secular bastions such as Tel Aviv even some corner stores and shopping centres are open.

    Mr Litzman's resignation did not immediately threaten Mr Netanyahu's coalition, but it risked setting off a chain reaction that might.

    Later on Sunday however, any crisis appeared to have been averted when Mr Netanyahu and the ultra-Orthodox coalition partners agreed to maintain the Sabbath status quo.

    Mr Litzman's resignation could have exerted pressure on the other two ultra-Orthodox coalition partners to squeeze out concessions from Mr Netanyahu to prove to their constituents that they respect the Sabbath as much as the resigning health minister.

    Mr Netanyahu may be hesitant to offer anything perceived as being too generous for fear of alienating secular voters at a time when opposition party Yesh Atid, led by charismatic former journalist Yair Lapid, has been gaining traction in polls.
     
  16. Bandwagon

    Bandwagon Moderator Staff Member

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    Just wondering whether the Health minister above would extend his opinion of "desecrating the Sabbath" to those that worked under his portfolio, like doctors and nurses manning hospitals?
     
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  17. Collateral

    Collateral Coach

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    Although I’m not 100% sure; I would expect there to be certain exceptions in religious texts and laws for certain jobs.
     
  18. Snoop

    Snoop Coach

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    Jesus copped a spray from the pharisees and synagogue leaders when he healed on the Sabbath.
     
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  19. Bandwagon

    Bandwagon Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah quite possibly, but I'm pretty certain the jobs to which I refer didn't actually exist in biblical times.
     
  20. Mr Spock!

    Mr Spock! Coach

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    Not in the Old Testament......

    Numbers 15

    32Now while the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering wood on the sabbath day.33Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation; 34and they put him in custody because it had not been declared what should be done to him.35Then the LORD said to Moses, “The man shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36So all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death with stones, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.
     

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