Roosters sign Luke Dorn

[legend]

This signing leaves me scratching my head when Phil Gould continues to whinge about the Roosters having to shed players to stay under the salary cap.

I'm sure all the Roosters fans are sick of hearing that their club is over the salary cap but surely the signing of new players must make you stop and think how can the club afford to stockpile talent?

I'm not saying they are over the cap but to have the team they have and then sign established first graders leaves me more than a little perplexed.

 

[rossy]

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/30/1064819935828.html

I hope he was cheap... Maybe just another Justin Holbrook.

 

[Moffo]

i have to wonder as well. And im not suggesting anything.

Brad Fittler (1)
Luke Ricketson (2)
Adrian Morley (3)
Brett Finch (4)
Chris Walker (5)
Ryan Cross (6)
Anthony Minichello (7)
Willie Bishop (8)
Shannon Hegarty (9)
Justin Hodges (10)
Todd Byrne (11)
Craig Fitzgibbon (12)
Jason Cayless (13)
Andrew Lomu (14)
Luke Dorn - Next year
Craig Wing (15)
Ned Catic (16)
Michael Crocker (17)
Chris Flannery (18)
Eric Grothe *leaving i think* (19)
Todd Payten - Paid by roosters in 2003 (20)
Luke Phillips - Still would fall under a roosters contract for 2003? (21)
Mal Kaufusi (22)
Gavin Lester

Id say they are the top players at the Roosters. Isnt the spirit of the 2 caps that the top 25 go in the 3.25 and the rest go in the reggies cap? I hope the reggies cap is being policied as well

Compare that to a Souths roster. In all honesty, and its a genuine question, do you think its in the spirit of the salary cap to have sides like this and say, for instance, the Souths roster in the same comp? The spirit of the salary cap is to promote equality and sustainability of teams. I don't know if things like this really help us to all achieve this goal

And this is not spoken from a bitter dogs fan, we got caught and have served our time


Cheers,
Moffo

 

[legend]

Payten was paid by the Raiders this year and Lomu has left to join the Sharks.

The Roosters have signed Lester from the Dogs though.

 

[Catatonic_Omnivore]

I don't know what all the fuss is about. Luke Dorn would probably be outside the top 25 players on the roster which has a different cap. I beleive Joe Williams left a gap to fill there.

 

[The Colonel]

Payten was paid by the Raiders this year and Lomu has left to join the Sharks.

The Roosters have signed Lester from the Dogs though.

You will find that Payten will be paid next year by the Raiders, the Rorters and the Tigers. A percentage will be paid by each club until the original contract that was held by the Raiders ends.

I reckon that they have the best accountants in Australia. Anyone who wants a good tax return needs to get in touch with these guys.

 

[PARRA_FAN]

i have to wonder as well. And im not suggesting anything.

Brad Fittler (1)
Luke Ricketson (2)
Adrian Morley (3)
Brett Finch (4)
Chris Walker (5)
Ryan Cross (6)
Anthony Minichello (7)
Willie Bishop (8)
Shannon Hegarty (9)
Justin Hodges (10)
Todd Byrne (11)
Craig Fitzgibbon (12)
Jason Cayless (13)
Andrew Lomu (14)
Luke Dorn - Next year
Craig Wing (15)
Ned Catic (16)
Michael Crocker (17)
Chris Flannery (18)
Eric Grothe *leaving i think* (19)
Todd Payten - Paid by roosters in 2003 (20)
Luke Phillips - Still would fall under a roosters contract for 2003? (21)
Mal Kaufusi (22)
Gavin Lester

Id say they are the top players at the Roosters. Isnt the spirit of the 2 caps that the top 25 go in the 3.25 and the rest go in the reggies cap? I hope the reggies cap is being policied as well

Compare that to a Souths roster. In all honesty, and its a genuine question, do you think its in the spirit of the salary cap to have sides like this and say, for instance, the Souths roster in the same comp? The spirit of the salary cap is to promote equality and sustainability of teams. I don't know if things like this really help us to all achieve this goal

And this is not spoken from a bitter dogs fan, we got caught and have served our time


Cheers,
Moffo

Grothe is definatley back at Parramatta next year.

Luke Phillips is retired, but i guess he would still fall under this years contract.

 

[Moffo]

3.25 divided by 25 = Avg of $130,000

Some of those guys must be on buggerall contracts in order for the Roosters to sit under 3.25m

Cheers,
Moffo

 

[Rooster Alex]

Luke Phillips is retired, but i guess he would still fall under this years contract.

I recall that he was deemed to be a medical retirement by the NRL auditors and as such his contract didn't come under the cap for this year.

I can't balance a chequebook and I don't pretend to understand how the cap works but I sure do enjoy watching the armchair experts here have a tilt.

 

[rossy]

Grothe is definatley back at Parramatta next year.

Luke Phillips is retired, but i guess he would still fall under this years contract.

Since he's retired due to injury I think you'll find that he is NOT included in the cap. You need to consider that a lot of these blokes have been at the Roosters long term and have been nurtured by the club into being top-liners. Lomu, Flanno, Crocker, Mini, Toddy & Heggs for example. Flanno re-signed long term before he was a SOO rep. Walker was picked up for next to nothing, while Cayless, Robinson, Fitzgibbon & Catic weren't getting a start at their clubs and were either bench players or reserve graders.

The tired old Roosters must be over the cap rumours have been found to be baseless and have seen lots of rugby league forums go to the great forum in the sky. If you have substantial evidence to support these claims, provide it to the NRL so they can investigate it further. Starting rumours like these can only shut down the few avenues for this type of discussion we have left.

I guess it's up to you...

By the way, have you done the sums on the Knights and the Broncos?

 

[Raider_69]

Phillips isnt included in that due to the fact he retired for medical reason, however as said by another i dont pretend to understand exactly how the cap works, and im sure if we suspect this so would auditor and would sus it out....... but this signing has got me a little confussed... surly they either

a) have a few top line players on bugger all or
b) they are over the cap

 

[The Colonel]

I can't balance a chequebook and I don't pretend to understand how the cap works but I sure do enjoy watching the armchair experts here have a tilt.

Its quite easy actually.

Firstly you compare the players that have left the Roosters to those that have left other clubs because of salary cap restrictions. At best the majority of players that have been released have been bench players and first division players - Brett Mullins and Simon Bonetti are the only players released who played more than 15 games in first grade last year.

Secondly, based on the restrictions that the Roosters themselves profess to be working under, you question the players that they have managed to sign whilst under these restrictions. While many are fringe first graders at best many are talented juniors that other clubs have diffiuclty fitting inside their own caps hence the reason thjey are on the market.

Thirdly, you consider the players that are being 'stockpiled' in first division who in most circumstances would have played, were playing or will be playing first grade at any other club in the competition this or next year. You also have to question how their thirst for first grade football is being quenched.

Last, and most important, you consider the amount of internationals that the team have and have produced in the last twelve to eighteen months.

Mind you that being said, loyalty does play a major part in teams particularly those that are the premiers. A member of a team may play for less if he finds himself in a team that he trusts and values. Blokes like Ricketson, Phillips, Bonetti and Flannery are probably four of the most hardworking and loyal blokes I have ever witnessed play - they are likely to be one club players (Phillips played for a few clubs but was unwanted at times) for most of their lives.

However, as a first grade career is on average over in two to three years and there is big money on show elsewhere - not just here in Australia but overseas as well it raises questions amongst the armchair experts when a team as talented as the Roosters is manages to stay together.

The same doubts have been cast in recent years about the Broncos, the Bulldogs, Parramatta, Newcastle and Canberra. When teams manage to combine a lot of talent into a club and remain that way for a few years there are always questions about how they manage.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Everytime they sign a player there always seems to be an excuse.

The fact is that looking at that roster, it is hard to see how they are under the cap. Yet they continue to sign players.

It is a joke.

 

[rossy]

Firstly you compare the players that have left the Roosters to those that have left other clubs because of salary cap restrictions. At best the majority of players that have been released have been bench players and first division players - Brett Mullins and Simon Bonetti are the only players released who played more than 15 games in first grade last year.

Bryan Fletcher springs to mind. Paul Green was freeing up a chunk of change & we couldn't afford David Kidwell either. Matty Sing was another we had to let go, as was Mark Riddell from our lower grades.

Secondly, based on the restrictions that the Roosters themselves profess to be working under, you question the players that they have managed to sign whilst under these restrictions. While many are fringe first graders at best many are talented juniors that other clubs have diffiuclty fitting inside their own caps hence the reason thjey are on the market.

Thirdly, you consider the players that are being 'stockpiled' in first division who in most circumstances would have played, were playing or will be playing first grade at any other club in the competition this or next year. You also have to question how their thirst for first grade football is being quenched.

The Roosters PL side was full of no-names this year. Apart from the "big names" Mal Kaufusi and Willie Bishop, which I might add MattO was banging on about ad nauseum, the Rooosters had a huge cull from their lower grades when Ricky Stuart arrived. Wests Tigers seem to have been the major beneficiaries. Todd Payten was being funded by the Raiders, while Finch wanted out and the opportunity to study under one of the best halfbacks in the modern would've been a great factor.

Last, and most important, you consider the amount of internationals that the team have and have produced in the last twelve to eighteen months.

Mind you that being said, loyalty does play a major part in teams particularly those that are the premiers. A member of a team may play for less if he finds himself in a team that he trusts and values.

However, as a first grade career is on average over in two to three years and there is big money on show elsewhere - not just here in Australia but overseas as well it raises questions amongst the armchair experts when a team as talented as the Roosters is manages to stay together.

The same doubts have been cast in recent years about the Broncos, the Bulldogs, Parramatta, Newcastle and Canberra.

As is becoming more and more evident, to some footballers in the post $uper League era money isn't everything. Lance Thompson took a hefty pay cut to stay at Saints. Freddie has taken a cut for next year as well. Like I said in other posts, unless there is real evidence to support any allegations then I guess there must be another agenda.

 

[The Colonel]

Bryan Fletcher springs to mind. Paul Green was freeing up a chunk of change & we couldn't afford David Kidwell either. Matty Sing was another we had to let go, as was Mark Riddell from our lower grades.

Lance Thompson took a hefty pay cut to stay at Saints.

I did forget about Fletcher and Sing - Riddell left from the lower grades and wasn't on big dollars anyway.

Thompson did take a big pay cut but not to stay and was offered a longer term deal. He was already signed for at least another year and took a pay cut so the club could sign Timmins and Gasnier.

Freddies deal - I believe is incentive based is it not? This being the case that if he were to stay beyond next year, which from all reports is unlikely, would become part of the 2005 salary cap. This was also the main reason that Mullins left.

People will continue to draw conclusions as they have done over past years about other clubs and even more now since the Dogs debacle until the NRL finally introduce a cap system that ranks players not just on dollars.

 

[The Colonel]

Like I said in other posts, unless there is real evidence to support any allegations then I guess there must be another agenda.

No agenda here - and no allegations have been made. I have put forward reasons for why I and many others have raised questions over the Roosters and for that matter a lot of other clubs - my own included.

Unless all clubs offer a list of what actually gets payed to players, which would be terribly unlikely, the average joe will question what they see.

 

[Pierced Soul]

Also remembering that walker was signed for f**k all this year (thanks to souths) and he has resigned for another 2 years. wonder whether he's willing to play for what he's getting from the chooks this year?

 

[rossy]

Like I said in other posts, unless there is real evidence to support any allegations then I guess there must be another agenda.

No agenda here - and no allegations have been made. I have put forward reasons for why I and many others have raised questions over the Roosters and for that matter a lot of other clubs - my own included.

Unless all clubs offer a list of what actually gets payed to players, which would be terribly unlikely, the average joe will question what they see.

Indeed the cap is flawed, a draft would, and has been, be a restraint of trade and contradictory to the business principles of all of the News Ltd core businesses.

The Roosters have been constantly targetted by anonymous posters in web forums using unsubstantiated claims and not a whole lot of logical and rational debate. At least you're applying measured tones to your posts, but still the whole debate has not had one skerrick of new evidence to support these personal views. You can understand why Easts fans get sick of the innuendo.

 

[Pierced Soul]

everytime a successful club signs someone there are rumours and inuendo about the cap. Canberra, Brisbane, now Easts it will continue to happen until players salaries are released or we see a draft that spreads talent around.

I think the roosters fans who take it personally are forgetting several things firstly it has ahppened to many teams before them, and secondly tall poppy syndrome dictates that people like to bag successful clubs anyway they can

 

[legend]

People are entitled to their opinions though and most in this debate have tried to rationalise but like me, the numbers just don't add up

I have no evidence that the Roosters are over the cap but it seems the opinion of most of the non-roosters fans is that they are. That you can't change regardless of what Roosters fans say.