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Roosters sign Luke Dorn

Moffo

Referee
Messages
23,986
with due respect, rleague was shut down for a totally different reason then most people think

Also, this isn't directed at you dice, but perhaps the wider community. Its a discussion board, if people want to offer their opinions (without being slanderous) then i don't see a problem. For instance, if people started accusing others of being homosexuals etc etc, then yeh, it shouldn't be allowed. But if people want to openly discuss the financial situation of certain clubs, then i see little/no problem with it

And if anyone has a problem with that, id sure like to see it challenged in a court of law. The aggressors would get laughed at

Cheers,
Moffo
 

Raider_69

Post Whore
Messages
61,174
dice said:
Wow, a thread questioning the Roosters integrity on the salary cap and another thread on Ray Hadley and 2GB all in the same day. Dejavu!

Does anyone know any other forums to go to after this forum gets shutdown as well? :lol:

well im glad im not the only one feeling that dejavu sensation
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

i here that Dragon_Fanatic has forums...... im off to register
 

Woods

Juniors
Messages
98
ozzie said:
legend said:
People are entitled to their opinions though and most in this debate have tried to rationalise but like me, the numbers just don't add up

I have no evidence that the Roosters are over the cap but it seems the opinion of most of the non-roosters fans is that they are. That you can't change regardless of what Roosters fans say.

ummm who cares what they think - its what the auditors say - were you drunk when you wrote this heap of crap thread!!!! oh no thats right I forgot you just hate the Roosters and will drag any crap up...

I truly hope you don't believe the NRL auditors could find anyone rorting the cap. They passed the Dogs as fine for all the years they were over the cap so it is entirely possible and quite likely that other clubs that have been passed by them are also over the cap.
 

The Colonel

Immortal
Messages
41,810
Edwahu said:
Out of interest, didnt Mullins earn 120k on an incentive contract for last year and doesnt that mean the contracts value is taken into account for this season not last?

Incentive based contracts are only become part of the cap if the player stays at the club hence the reason Mullins retired.
 

legend

Coach
Messages
15,150
BTW RC, Walker was on 200k per year, not 300 as you earlier stated.

Maybe Kate Ritchie will subsidise his wage? :lol:

I agree with Moffo, this thread has asked legitimate questions about the Roosters and the Roosters faithful have come out on the front foot in a very defensive manner.

My only other question is did any Roosters fans ever question the Broncos being over the cap in 2000? I'm sure some of you did. :roll:
 
Messages
2,841
Well you lot can waffle on all you bloody like. Personally, I've had a f gutful of having to defend our Club against allegations like this. For a f year we put up with bullshit about being claytons premiers, and that proved false. I'm pissed off with this whole thread, it's absolutely pointless. Nothing has been debated, solved or ratified.

As was stated somewhere else, if you have any concerns write to the NRL and have our Club investigated. I won't be losing any sleep waiting for the results.

EASTS TO WIN

 

legend

Coach
Messages
15,150
I have just re-read this entire thread and only Kiwi's post is over the top and it has been deleted. The rest are ok IMO. No one in any post has come out and said the Roosters are over the cap.
 

The Colonel

Immortal
Messages
41,810
Penelope Pittstop said:
Well you lot can waffle on all you bloody like. Personally, I've had a f gutful of having to defend our Club against allegations like this. For a f year we put up with bullsh*t about being claytons premiers, and that proved false. I'm pissed off with this whole thread, it's absolutely pointless. Nothing has been debated, solved or ratified.

As was stated somewhere else, if you have any concerns write to the NRL and have our Club investigated. I won't be losing any sleep waiting for the results.

EASTS TO WIN


In most posts people have not made allegations. Sure some have but most have voiced legitimate questions about the playing roster that the Roosters have managed to accumulate. Particularly when the club through Phil Gould have been arguing about the restrictions that have been placed on them by the salary cap but manage to sign and resign players like Luke Dorn and Chris Walker there are bound to be questions

This has happened to most clubs - Parramatta, Manly, Canberra, Dragons, Brisbane and Roosters in particular - when clubs manage to have a roster that includes plays who are internationals or of that standard.

It comes with the territory of having a successful club.
 

Rooster Alex

Juniors
Messages
28
legend said:
I agree with Moffo, this thread has asked legitimate questions about the Roosters and the Roosters faithful have come out on the front foot in a very defensive manner.
The sane and rational would wonder about the utility of asking questions in a forum where there is no chance of receiving an informed reply instead of mere uninformed opinion and speculation.

We now return you to discussion on the salary cap, UFO abductions and the price of petrol at the pump.
 
Messages
544
Colonel Eel said:
In most posts people have not made allegations. Sure some have but most have voiced legitimate questions about the playing roster that the Roosters have managed to accumulate.

I believe the term developed rather than accumulate is more applicable.

But before all you "Home Grown" hoo haa's join the arguement, let me make this clear. Three years ago no one knew Flannery, Hegarty, Crocker, Byrne, etc... The only player of elite standing was Fittler. Sure we had "elite" players come and go such as Mullins but they never stayed. This is no different to any other team.

This where all Roosters fans seem annoyed when questions are raised on the "legitimacy" or "validity" of the Roosters playing roster. Not sure about anyone else, but to me this is the same as questioning the Roosters Salary Cap.

In 2000 when the Roosters made the GF I don't think anyone questioned it then. Why, because the Roosters were for a large part dependant on Fittler, a one man team if you like. Year 2003 & 2003 saw the emergence of unkown talents and all of a sudden you guys put a price tag of 200K+ on them.

Now going back to Goulds arguement. Once these emerging talents fulfill their contracts 2-3 years down the track it would be difficult for the Roosters to keep them. Some will be released such as the case for Sing, Lam, Fletcher, etc...

I can't answer for Phil Gould but I would assume that the Roosters are somewhat frustrated that they would like to offer contracts to some of the players which have left as well as offer a substancial upgrades to the existing roster but can't not because they can't afford it but its because they are constrained by the cap.

Coaches & clubs that won't comment on these are the ones who have plenty under the cap but can't spend because of financial constraints. It's what avoids them from fielding a reserve grade side each week.

It really stinks that there are people out there that would love nothing better than to stick it to the Roosters and not really give them credit for what they have achieved given the demographics of the club.

See through the facade fo Cafe's and Designer Label shops and you will find a battler. A club on paper should have no reason to exist let alone compete in the the GF.

Yes, we have very little to offer so far as "Home Grown" talent is concerned. But if you consider the talents developed over the years such as Mini, Flannery, Hegarty, Byrne, Webb, Crocker, Cusak, etc... Some of which you guys would be cheering on during rep games. It's not bad considering they play for a club in a small pocket of Sydney.
 

TheEye

Juniors
Messages
221
Catatonic_Omnivore said:
Colonel Eel said:
In most posts people have not made allegations. Sure some have but most have voiced legitimate questions about the playing roster that the Roosters have managed to accumulate.

I believe the term developed rather than accumulate is more applicable.

But before all you "Home Grown" hoo haa's join the arguement, let me make this clear. Three years ago no one knew Flannery, Hegarty, Crocker, Byrne, etc... The only player of elite standing was Fittler. Sure we had "elite" players come and go such as Mullins but they never stayed. This is no different to any other team.

This where all Roosters fans seem annoyed when questions are raised on the "legitimacy" or "validity" of the Roosters playing roster. Not sure about anyone else, but to me this is the same as questioning the Roosters Salary Cap.

In 2000 when the Roosters made the GF I don't think anyone questioned it then. Why, because the Roosters were for a large part dependant on Fittler, a one man team if you like. Year 2003 & 2003 saw the emergence of unkown talents and all of a sudden you guys put a price tag of 200K+ on them.

Now going back to Goulds arguement. Once these emerging talents fulfill their contracts 2-3 years down the track it would be difficult for the Roosters to keep them. Some will be released such as the case for Sing, Lam, Fletcher, etc...

I can't answer for Phil Gould but I would assume that the Roosters are somewhat frustrated that they would like to offer contracts to some of the players which have left as well as offer a substancial upgrades to the existing roster but can't not because they can't afford it but its because they are constrained by the cap.

Coaches & clubs that won't comment on these are the ones who have plenty under the cap but can't spend because of financial constraints. It's what avoids them from fielding a reserve grade side each week.

It really stinks that there are people out there that would love nothing better than to stick it to the Roosters and not really give them credit for what they have achieved given the demographics of the club.

See through the facade fo Cafe's and Designer Label shops and you will find a battler. A club on paper should have no reason to exist let alone compete in the the GF.

Yes, we have very little to offer so far as "Home Grown" talent is concerned. But if you consider the talents developed over the years such as Mini, Flannery, Hegarty, Byrne, Webb, Crocker, Cusak, etc... Some of which you guys would be cheering on during rep games. It's not bad considering they play for a club in a small pocket of Sydney.

happy-applause1.gif
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happy-applause1.gif
 

Chook

First Grade
Messages
5,655
Well said Omnivore and I'll add my two pennies worth as well.

Many of you are basing your assumptions on the old Roosters. The club that had to primarily purchase their talent pool of players with many of those purchases being over the hill hacks looking for big money and no effort. Paul Vautin springs to mind! And we were duely ridiculed for that culture.

But over years management at the club has changed it's policies and practices, we had too, we simply couldn't be consistently competative buying and buying and buying. And the major reason is you can't buy loyalty you have to develop it. Now given our location and demographics we were always going to have to look elsewhwere to get the young pool of talent we wanted to develop.

Arties' QLD connection has been a gold mine for us with Crocker, Flannery, Hegs and Hodgo. We've also picked up unwanteds at other clubs and made them very good footballers, Cayless, Robinson, Payten, Finch and Catic. And we've augmented these with some home developed talent Cross, Ricko, Cusack and Byrne.

Now add to this mix THE most innovative, dedicated, committed and hard working coaching staff in the league and you have an environment where players are reaching their potential AND reaching the heights of their chosen profession.

Why is it do you think that the Roosters have had more players come out and declare themselves as wanting to be long term players with our club recently? And each of them has remarked on the professionalism of club and coaching staff as a major contributing factor for their decision to want to stay.

Gus had good 'skills' as a coach but played favourites with his team selections. Murray had great repour with the players and built team spirit. Ricky has honest professionalism that takes both the above qualities and provides a productive environment.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that the current Roosters club provides an environment idicative to producing good footballers. The fact that some of these footballers were at best just above average at their previous clubs gives far more credence to the Roosters new and improved environment than anything else?

And THE major improvement for my club in all of this is the loyalty that this new environment is breeding within the players themselves. Catic has nothing but high praise for the way the club helped him through his recent crisis. Cayless is still today thankful for the opportunity the Roosters gave him even though he came here with massive knee problems and missed the first third of 2002. Cross has come out and says he owes us for those two years of leg problems. Fitzy wants to be a 10 year Rooster. So does Finch and Mini now.

If you want to take something away from the Roosters, take a lesson in how to keep your players motivated, focused and enthusiastic throughout a season. Take away a lesson in how to prepare your players to play finals football. Take a lesson in how to prepare a training session so the players don't get bored and complacent. Take away the lessons learnt from years in the player retention wilderness from a club who has learnt it's lessons the hard way.

A decade ago Rooster fans were laughed at and ridiculed for everything our current club is not. And many of us still remember that time, bitterly, and that's probably why many of us launch now when our clubs' attacked.

The bottom line is the Roosters have professionalised as the game has professionalised, and we have done it better than most. Sure we've made mistakes, what club hasn't. You want your clubs to be successful like us? Stop bagging us for a moment and learn from us.

Chook.
 

Raider_69

Post Whore
Messages
61,174
the rooster fans have present one vaild point, which is that players like byrne, fitzgibbon, hegarty, flanary, crocker etc wernt anything special 2 years ago and are probably still under contracts signed a few years back..... so they may indeed be on pretty small amounts

however if this is true they would be coming off contract this season or next and i cant see the rooster hanging on to all of them, if they do then the only assumption that could be made would be that they are over the cap.....

i would be intrested if any rooster fans could post when players signed their current contract i.e what year
 

Raider_69

Post Whore
Messages
61,174
just on the 10 year roosters.... some i can believe but finch will go where the money is IMO...... this bloke also claimed that he wanted to play his career out at canberra.....
 

aqua_duck

Coach
Messages
18,316
Catatonic_Omnivore said:
legend said:
See, that's where you are all wrong. I look at the number of players signed, currently on the books, released and status in the game.

I'm sorry but signing guys like Morley, Wing, Hodges, Finch, Cayless and the cost to now re-sign those players, Bernie Gurrs statement earlier this year that it would be near impossible to re-sign everyone they want (but they did) and then Stuart today says the club should have eight Kangaroos. That alone tells me there is some high priced talent in the side excluding the highest paid player at the club (Fittler) and then we are led to believe Chris Walker is playing for peanuts.

Ozzie, take a deep breath mate. I don't hate the players but I think something doesn't add up.

What i'd like to see is a Roosters fan put a price on evry player currently in the first grade squad and see what figure they come up with.

I just did a "guessitimate" based on the top 17 players and this is what I got...

(note figures are in $,000)
mini - $100
walker - $40
cross - $100
hodges - $150
hegarty - $100
fittler - $400
finch - $200
ricketson - $150 (based on 50% discount)
morley - $300
fitzgibbon - $200
cayless - $150
wing - $250
cusak - $80
flannery - $80
crocker - $80
byrne - $80
lomu - $80

That comes to a total of 2.5mil (plus change). That's still 700K short of the cap and I'm sure enough to make adjustments to the above figures. Like I said its a guesstimate not really sue how realistic it is but I thought was a fair price.

It would be an interesting exercise to do this on other clubs such as the Knights.
Your estimates remind me of the bulldogs payments.
You expect me to believe that you got Test players on only 100k a year? and two origin players on 80k a year?
For starters Wing is on about 330k a year, Fittler is on alot more than 400k, he'd be atleast on 500k if not more, Fitzgibbon would be around the 240k region.

As for the knights well this is an estimation for 2004

1.O'Davis-if he plays it'll be for less than 100k or possibly match payments
2.tahu-150k
3.Gidley-275k
4.Hughes-240k
5.Quinn-80k
6.Gidley-100k
7.Johns-500k
8.Perry-200k
9.Buderus-250k
10.Parsons-150k
11.Simpson-200k
12.Abraham-150k
13.kennedy-300k

14.Woolnough-70k
15.Newton-70k
16.Price-50k
17.tanner-50k
that adds up to around the 2.7 mil mark which leaves you around 450k for the rest of the players.

these players would possibly include:
18.Steve Witt-no 1st grade experience
19.Chris Tyrie-see Witt
20.Craig Hall-works in the RAAF
21.Michael Ennis-no 1st garde experience
22.Matt kennedy-less than 10 top grade games
23.Todd Lowrie-1 top grade game
24.Russell Richardson-souths reject, possible match payment
25.Jamie Fitzgerald-see richardson

Fitzgerald and Richardson havent signed yet but have been touted because they've both moved up to NEwcastle for business reasons so hence they would be on very big contracts at all.
 

El Diablo

Post Whore
Messages
94,107
Raider_69 said:
the rooster fans have present one vaild point, which is that players like byrne, fitzgibbon, hegarty, flanary, crocker etc wernt anything special 2 years ago and are probably still under contracts signed a few years back..... so they may indeed be on pretty small amounts

however if this is true they would be coming off contract this season or next and i cant see the rooster hanging on to all of them, if they do then the only assumption that could be made would be that they are over the cap.....

i would be intrested if any rooster fans could post when players signed their current contract i.e what year

I'm pretty sure Fitzgibbon re-signed with them this year and I can't think there's anyway he signed for as much as his original contract.

Cayless also did and I can't imagine him signing for what he originally did.

Other teams seem to have paid for success when re-signing players as their value has gone up but this doesn't appear to of happened too much at the Roosters. They seem to of even strengthened.
 
Messages
544
Raider_69 said:
i would be intrested if any rooster fans could post when players signed their current contract i.e what year
What are we, your personal assistant. Go to the Roosters Website you lazy frog!

Glad to see that you have accepted our point of the arguement with Flannery & Co. But you don't have to wait for their current contracts to expire. Just look at who left in seasons past.

No doubt, being a professional sport, some players will leave for bigger contracts or opportunities which suits them. I for one would wish them well and not bitch and moan about their greed. It's their life and they do what's best for them.
 

Raider_69

Post Whore
Messages
61,174
Catatonic_Omnivore said:
Raider_69 said:
i would be intrested if any rooster fans could post when players signed their current contract i.e what year
What are we, your personal assistant. Go to the Roosters Website you lazy frog!

Glad to see that you have accepted our point of the arguement with Flannery & Co. But you don't have to wait for their current contracts to expire. Just look at who left in seasons past.

No doubt, being a professional sport, some players will leave for bigger contracts or opportunities which suits them. I for one would wish them well and not bitch and moan about their greed. It's their life and they do what's best for them.

what! your not my personal assistant?
na, i was acually hoping some of you guys could remeber off your head, i dint think clubs websites had when players are contracted till!

ill go cheak out the roosters and report back :)
 
Messages
544
aqua_duck said:
Catatonic_Omnivore said:
legend said:
See, that's where you are all wrong. I look at the number of players signed, currently on the books, released and status in the game.

I'm sorry but signing guys like Morley, Wing, Hodges, Finch, Cayless and the cost to now re-sign those players, Bernie Gurrs statement earlier this year that it would be near impossible to re-sign everyone they want (but they did) and then Stuart today says the club should have eight Kangaroos. That alone tells me there is some high priced talent in the side excluding the highest paid player at the club (Fittler) and then we are led to believe Chris Walker is playing for peanuts.

Ozzie, take a deep breath mate. I don't hate the players but I think something doesn't add up.

What i'd like to see is a Roosters fan put a price on evry player currently in the first grade squad and see what figure they come up with.

I just did a "guessitimate" based on the top 17 players and this is what I got...

(note figures are in $,000)
mini - $100
walker - $40
cross - $100
hodges - $150
hegarty - $100
fittler - $400
finch - $200
ricketson - $150 (based on 50% discount)
morley - $300
fitzgibbon - $200
cayless - $150
wing - $250
cusak - $80
flannery - $80
crocker - $80
byrne - $80
lomu - $80

That comes to a total of 2.5mil (plus change). That's still 700K short of the cap and I'm sure enough to make adjustments to the above figures. Like I said its a guesstimate not really sue how realistic it is but I thought was a fair price.

It would be an interesting exercise to do this on other clubs such as the Knights.
Your estimates remind me of the bulldogs payments.
You expect me to believe that you got Test players on only 100k a year? and two origin players on 80k a year?
For starters Wing is on about 330k a year, Fittler is on alot more than 400k, he'd be atleast on 500k if not more, Fitzgibbon would be around the 240k region.
I don't expect you to beleive anything I post. What would I know, I just did an estimate. Which $100K test player are you referring to? Bear in mind that some of these players who represented Australia did so as their debut. Fittler took a paycut for next season and $400 would be more than I would expect.

You, know its not how much you make in the game but it's how you use it. A player could earn $100K a year but given the appropriate financial planning that $100K could be worth a lot more over a period of time. Now compound that the potential ernings from the club over a period of time (say 5 years) it can be quite substancial. This growth in financial gains is not subject to the Cap. Interesting to note that the Roosters have on board some of the most astute business minds in town. Get my drift. ;-)

Personally, I couldn't give a hoot what you think the Knights pay thier players. That up to the NRL.

For me I'm absolutely stoked that the Roosters have the opportunity to go back to back Premiers and World champoins this year. Something that no other team can achieve this season.
 
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