Round 1 Dragons v Broncos at Kogarah

[muzby]

Winning one title does not mean you are a good coach.

Win 3 or more.. ..sure.

The team Ricky had at the roosters would have most likely won 3 with a good coach. Losing to Penrith and the Bulldogs was a terrible under performance by Stuart.

The club thought so too and sacked him.

Done nothing since to add further evidence the guy is not a good coach.

Did a poor job with SOO too.

I do love moving goalposts - there aren’t too many coaches who have won three titles..

But regardless I bring it back to the argument that Stuart is better than Mary..

Winning percentages - Stuart 49% Mary 47%

Finals appearances - Ricky 39% of seasons coached (2 in every 5 years) Mary 1 in 4..

I get you don’t like Stuart, but hoping you may have something to back up the Mary claims rather than just shooting down Ricky..

 

[Frank Facer]

FF I always respect your opinion and read your posts with interest.
In this case I have to fundamentally disagree with your argument.
I am not going to respond line by line but would like to make the following observations:
1. Many of your examples come out of an era with a different set of criteria.
The best coach was not always the best recruiter with Bath's Babes being a standout exception.
And even though Jack Gibson did say those things, he was also the genius coach of that era. He was also humble and not one to blow his own trumpet.
In reality he massively influenced the outcomes of the teams he coached.
2. Your Nth Qld example is paper thin because Nth Qld have never been easy beats even when Thurston was not playing. They are hard to bead no matter who plays.
Last year disproved their reliance on Thurston once and for all.
The fact that we collapsed to give them a shot at finals footy is more about our ineptitude in the coach's box rather than North Queensland being lucky.
Don't forget they had a horror run with injuries and still they competed with grit and determination in every game they contested.
3. Let's take a serious look at McGregor by comparison.
Don't tell me we didn't have a good roster in 2017.
Did you really believe the club spin doctors manipulating the early predictions about us being candidates for the wooden spoon?
There were a number of games which I can point to last year which were coaching abominations.
*First round win against Newcastle - remember we were booed off Kogarah at half time after conceding 5 tries in the first half?
We came back and won out of sheer embarrassment and with the help of a Newcastle team that was so inexperienced, they shat their pants and failed to close out the win, against us
* Second round loss to Newcastle where Brownie showed us up and demonstrated, in startling fashion, that his team (who had nothing to play for) had learnt from the first round loss and we (who had everything to play for) learnt nothing to lose to the wooden spooners
* Second round against Souths - we lost the unlosable and threw away 2 competition points because of our inability to close out the result.
* Second round last game of the season against Canterbury (who also had nothing to play for) with our season on the line - we were terrible. Again we surrendered the lead to lose.
All these examples were at a time when we desperately needed competition points in order to scrape (by that stage) into the finals.
Then to see McGregor throw a tantrum in the coach's box at the end of the Canterbury game - all show no substance.
So if you can seriously tell me a coach like Bennett would not have guided us to a much better table finish in 2017 - then we are watching different football matches.
Good quality rosters + great coaches, win premierships.
Great coaches have the ability to get an average roster to over achieve.
Bad coaches + great rosters always underachieve.
Unfortunately, we are in the last category and the addition of Hunt is what everyone is banking on.
I hope and pray I'm totally wrong but we need a lot more and that to become a premiership contender..

I would be very happy for Mary to have been replaced by Demetrio at the end of 2016 or later or earlier.

Last year we had Mcrone as our halfback, he was the worst halfback in the comp. We also had Dugan at fullback, no other club wanted Dugan at fullback. We had an aging and slow Nightingale and still do have him this year. At the beginning of last season, I didn't expect us to make the 8. last year we started the season as one of the favourites for the wooden spoon. I would not have been happy with our roster if I was coaching us last year.

It will be interesting to see how Brisbane go this year. I think they will struggle to make the 8. If they do, will it be Bennett's fault?

 

[Objective View]

It will be interesting to see how Brisbane go this year. I think they will struggle to make the 8. If they do, will it be Bennett's fault?

Whatever Brisbane finish this year, rest assured Mary would have them six places lower than that. Likewise, whatever Dragons finish this year, Bennett would have them higher. Much higher.

Straight Shooter

 

[TomRedVRiver]

Looking at the player comparisons of both sides, I think we have them covered in over 50% of individual battles.. with the exception of positions like fullback, centres and left-edge backrow. Broncos have a strong bench too, that could be the difference if we're not careful. Our bench let us down in the trials.

We just need to play as a unit if we want to consolidate the victory. That's what you have to do against Bennett-coached sides, you can't rely on one hero to carry the team.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

I would be very happy for Mary to have been replaced by Demetrio at the end of 2016 or later or earlier.

Last year we had Mcrone as our halfback, he was the worst halfback in the comp. We also had Dugan at fullback, no other club wanted Dugan at fullback. We had an aging and slow Nightingale and still do have him this year. At the beginning of last season, I didn't expect us to make the 8. last year we started the season as one of the favourites for the wooden spoon. I would not have been happy with our roster if I was coaching us last year.

It will be interesting to see how Brisbane go this year. I think they will struggle to make the 8. If they do, will it be Bennett's fault?

I don't have an issue with the McCrone argument - I agree.
Hunt is rated in the top echelon of halfbacks but does that one recruitment make us a top four side?
I don't think it does.
We replaced Packer with Graham, we are struggling to fill Thompson's position and I certainly won't miss Dugan but can you honestly say that we are that much better this year than last?
I think that under a gun coach, Hunt's addition could have been a catalyst to a change in fortunes.
Under McGregor, I have no confidence that much will change other than enormous pressure being brought to bear on Hunt to make a massive difference. That can't be a good scenario.
As for Nightingale, why doesn't the coach select someone else?
In our case, what we all get frustrated about emanates from the coach's box.
In any case, all will be revealed over the next month starting with Thursday night against a Bennett coached Brisbane side.

 

[Overseas dragon]

After just watching a replay of the charity shield .IF LOMAX isn't in the run on side MARY needs to go to SPECSAVERS .no doubt the boy is a tremendous prospect and too good to be in REGGIES

 

[Overseas dragon]

Looking at the player comparisons of both sides, I think we have them covered in over 50% of individual battles.. with the exception of positions like fullback, centres and left-edge backrow. Broncos have a strong bench too, that could be the difference if we're not careful. Our bench let us down in the trials.

We just need to play as a unit if we want to consolidate the victory. That's what you have to do against Bennett-coached sides, you can't rely on one hero to carry the team.

Our bench was very good against the rabbits certainly AU MAU and SELE were very good LATIMORE didn't do much wrong and SIMS was ok I'm certainly on Latimores side he's still a very capable forward ....

 

[Frank Facer]

I don't have an issue with the McCrone argument - I agree.
Hunt is rated in the top echelon of halfbacks but does that one recruitment make us a top four side?
I don't think it does.
We replaced Packer with Graham, we are struggling to fill Thompson's position and I certainly won't miss Dugan but can you honestly say that we are that much better this year than last?
I think that under a gun coach, Hunt's addition could have been a catalyst to a change in fortunes.
Under McGregor, I have no confidence that much will change other than enormous pressure being brought to bear on Hunt to make a massive difference. That can't be a good scenario.
As for Nightingale, why doesn't the coach select someone else?
In our case, what we all get frustrated about emanates from the coach's box.
In any case, all will be revealed over the next month starting with Thursday night against a Bennett coached Brisbane side.

I actually think that Bennett hindered Hunts career.

I am wrapped that we signed Hunt, but I am not sure if we have a game manager with Hunt and Widdop as our halves.

I agree that McGregor should pick someone else instead of Nightingale. I also thought he should have dropped Lafai a lot earlier in 2016. I also can not believe his love for Aitken.

I do believe the addition of Hunt at halfback and Dufty at fullback gives us a lot more ammunition in attack. I do honestly think we are that much better than last year in those vital positions. I would much rather be coaching us this year than last year.

I do agree that McGregor is poor coach and that he should have been replaced long ago.

 

[Frank Facer]

FF I always respect your opinion and read your posts with interest.
In this case I have to fundamentally disagree with your argument.
I am not going to respond line by line but would like to make the following observations:
1. Many of your examples come out of an era with a different set of criteria.
The best coach was not always the best recruiter with Bath's Babes being a standout exception.
And even though Jack Gibson did say those things, he was also the genius coach of that era. He was also humble and not one to blow his own trumpet.
In reality he massively influenced the outcomes of the teams he coached.
2. Your Nth Qld example is paper thin because Nth Qld have never been easy beats even when Thurston was not playing. They are hard to bead no matter who plays.
Last year disproved their reliance on Thurston once and for all.
The fact that we collapsed to give them a shot at finals footy is more about our ineptitude in the coach's box rather than North Queensland being lucky.
Don't forget they had a horror run with injuries and still they competed with grit and determination in every game they contested.
3. Let's take a serious look at McGregor by comparison.
Don't tell me we didn't have a good roster in 2017.
Did you really believe the club spin doctors manipulating the early predictions about us being candidates for the wooden spoon?
There were a number of games which I can point to last year which were coaching abominations.
*First round win against Newcastle - remember we were booed off Kogarah at half time after conceding 5 tries in the first half?
We came back and won out of sheer embarrassment and with the help of a Newcastle team that was so inexperienced, they shat their pants and failed to close out the win, against us
* Second round loss to Newcastle where Brownie showed us up and demonstrated, in startling fashion, that his team (who had nothing to play for) had learnt from the first round loss and we (who had everything to play for) learnt nothing to lose to the wooden spooners
* Second round against Souths - we lost the unlosable and threw away 2 competition points because of our inability to close out the result.
* Second round last game of the season against Canterbury (who also had nothing to play for) with our season on the line - we were terrible. Again we surrendered the lead to lose.
All these examples were at a time when we desperately needed competition points in order to scrape (by that stage) into the finals.
Then to see McGregor throw a tantrum in the coach's box at the end of the Canterbury game - all show no substance.
So if you can seriously tell me a coach like Bennett would not have guided us to a much better table finish in 2017 - then we are watching different football matches.
Good quality rosters + great coaches, win premierships.
Great coaches have the ability to get an average roster to over achieve.
Bad coaches + great rosters always underachieve.
Unfortunately, we are in the last category and the addition of Hunt is what everyone is banking on.
I hope and pray I'm totally wrong but we need a lot more and that to become a premiership contender..

I will also add that I enjoy reading your comments, I respect your views and opinions and think you have a good perspective on the game. You are a valuable member of this site.

 

[Overseas dragon]

I will also add that I enjoy reading your comments, I respect your views and opinions and think you have a good perspective on the game. You are a valuable member of this site.

As are you Dennis

 

[Slippery Morris]

Not to confident about this game as Bennett will have them primed for a good start. His teams always start well to make up for Origin period. Will be a tough game. Who is the back up hooker in case McInness gets injured? Is it Robson? Surely he will get a bench spot. Others for the bench should be Host, Sele and Luciano. Sims should start and take Thommo's spot.

 

[Alec's-saints]

Not to confident about this game as Bennett will have them primed for a good start. His teams always start well to make up for Origin period. Will be a tough game. Who is the back up hooker in case McInness gets injured? Is it Robson? Surely he will get a bench spot. Others for the bench should be Host, Sele and Luciano. Sims should start and take Thommo's spot.

host, sele Luc, latimore will be the bench

 

[Alec's-saints]

Not to confident about this game as Bennett will have them primed for a good start. His teams always start well to make up for Origin period. Will be a tough game. Who is the back up hooker in case McInness gets injured? Is it Robson? Surely he will get a bench spot. Others for the bench should be Host, Sele and Luciano. Sims should start and take Thommo's spot.

they literally have the worst front row in the comp. they don't have have halfback and they also have no hooker for this game. saints by 24. ambush time. hate these Cnts

 

[O'Sullivan]

Not confident either Slippery. The big D is our weakness. Nightingale, Nene and Aitken will be in the run on side which will see the Broncos' backs running outside or around us as one or two of these three rush up and in. No confidence in our defensive 'structures'. Our forwards close to the line slide too much and have proven fragile. Hope I'm wrong but Broncos for mine.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

As are you Dennis

Appreciated!

 

[TomRedVRiver]

I think we'll get up 18-12.

Frizell, Dufty and Nightingale our try-scorers.
Widdop 3/3.

 

[Alec's-saints]

Not confident either Slippery. The big D is our weakness. Nightingale, Nene and Aitken will be in the run on side which will see the Broncos' backs running outside or around us as one or two of these three rush up and in. No confidence in our defensive 'structures'. Our forwards close to the line slide too much and have proven fragile. Hope I'm wrong but Broncos for mine.

you sure you ain't a inbred supporter ??

 

[Alec's-saints]

I think we'll get up 18-12.

Frizell, Dufty and Nightingale our try-scorers.
Widdop 3/3.

finally some positivity. i don't agree with your prediction, i think saints by 24. broncos have a fullback that has hamstring injuries. broncos have no hooker. broncos also have the worst front row in the comp. but hey what would i know. waiting for that straight shooter muppet to hose me down.

 

[TomRedVRiver]

finally some positivity. i don't agree with your prediction, i think saints by 24. broncos have a fullback that has hamstring injuries. broncos have no hooker. broncos also have the worst front row in the comp. but hey what would i know. waiting for that straight shooter muppet to hose me down.

I think it will be closer than that, when the Broncos lose it's rarely a blowout, they usually keep you pretty contained.

You're half right about the front row rotation as well. As much as his return is controversial, Lodge will surprise a lot of people. He's an absolute gun, can see him killing it this year.

 

[Bests Golden Boots]

I'm just putting this out there.
But we have to admit our club is a hopeless joke.

I live not 10 minutes from KJO.
We were driving around Kogarah today, not one poster, not one telephone pole advertisement, no banners up outside KJO, nothing.
If you didn't follow rugby league the way most on here do and are just a casual fan, you would have no clue this game was on.

They complain about the crowds they get at Koagrah, but then do nothing, not even the bare minimum to promote the game.
Something isn't right here.