What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Rumoured and Confirmed signings - Part 4

Status
Not open for further replies.

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
22,996
Exactly. No doubt Kikau looks good and has a heap of potential but he has played part of one game, perhaps we should see a bit more of him at NRL level before offering him a lengthy contract.
So wait until another club has signed him and its too late?

Look at Kalyn Ponga. 2 NRL games and he's earming Matt Moylan money from the Knights. Possibly even more than Moylan.

You have to get in early or these players are going to get ridiculous offers we cant possibly match. We knew he had potential... but we chose to sign a solid at best player in Tim Browne last year rather than extend these guys.

We didnt need the experience. We had Latu. Tamou. Rcg. Mckendry. Akauolo with experience already. Leota. Kikau and Clarke to fight for spots and experience. We took a spot away from a bloke with more potential in our top 25.

Keeping him now will be difficult. But last year it would have been pretty easy.
 

Tronald Crump

Juniors
Messages
1,083
Exactly. No doubt Kikau looks good and has a heap of potential but he has played part of one game, perhaps we should see a bit more of him at NRL level before offering him a lengthy contract.

Like Junior Tia Kilifi?
Many were up in arms when he signed for the Bulldogs after a couple of blockbusting games. He didn't do much afterwards.
Kikau is a potential gun if he stays fit then again so was Greg Waddell.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,441
He's better than Mckendry and Browne are already. He deserves a spot in our top 17.

He has size and loves to use it. He's pretty much the only bloke like that at the club. Elliott compared him to Taumololo. He has the size and athleticism to be like him.

Would be a huge mistake to lose him.

He's a quality talent no doubt but he's not worth breaking our budget over, no one is. We did that to keep Mckendry, Coote, Jennings, grant etc when they were hot juniors and how did that work out? We need good depth to win a premiership, it's not worth sacrifing that depth to ensure we keep every young guy that shows potential. We look to be in a great position this year so I'm happy to trust Gould and Hook with the recruitment until we aren't looking good, we haven't even lost anyone yet and have every other kid we want to keep locked up, if we lose one of many so be it, we can't keep them all which seems to be exactly what you are demanding.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
22,996
He's a quality talent no doubt but he's not worth breaking our budget over, no one is. We did that to keep Mckendry, Coote, Jennings, grant etc when they were hot juniors and how did that work out? We need good depth to win a premiership, it's not worth sacrifing that depth to ensure we keep every young guy that shows potential. We look to be in a great position this year so I'm happy to trust Gould and Hook with the recruitment until we aren't looking good, we haven't even lost anyone yet and have every other kid we want to keep locked up, if we lose one of many so be it, we can't keep them all which seems to be exactly what you are demanding.
I'm not suggesting we break the bank for him. I'm suggesting we should have offered him an upgraded deal last year and to extend it before he was a target from other teams. Rather than signing someone we all knew would offer nothing to the team.

Players with that size and athleticism are rare. He's a freak of nature. He's happy to throw his weight around and loves the contact. Only injury will stop him from being a beast.
 

Panther Pete

Juniors
Messages
1,681
So you think Penrith should have offered both an upgrade and extension to a player who had not played a single NRL game?
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
22,996
So you think Penrith should have offered both an upgrade and extension to a player who had not played a single NRL game?
He wasnt even on a top 25 spot... so yeah upgrade him to a top 25 spot and extend him befote wasting a spot on Browne.

He wouldnt be the first to get a top 25 spot before cracking the NRL. If he didnt kick on its not hard to replace him in our top 25.

Considering we planned for him to play last year, it's not exactly a risky move.
 

Big Mick

Referee
Messages
26,239
He wasnt even on a top 25 spot... so yeah upgrade him to a top 25 spot and extend him befote wasting a spot on Browne.

He wouldnt be the first to get a top 25 spot before cracking the NRL. If he didnt kick on its not hard to replace him in our top 25.

Considering we planned for him to play last year, it's not exactly a risky move.

For a guy that had ankle problems all year and didn't play?

Browne is on next to nothing - wouldn't be close to what Kikau would be looking to go on so his impact to anything to do with re-signing Kikau is naught. Just looking for something to critcise and argue about mate.

We wont keep everyone. That's reality. And I know for a fact that Gus had conversations with his manager last year about extending & his manager wanted to wait until 2017 when he was fit. So what do you want Gus to do? Force him to sign a deal?

But fact is we have guys like Whare off contract this year that wont be retained. We will likely move on from Hiku and Sam Mac may be done by the end of this year.

When you have Latu/RCG/Tamou with one spot available - at some stage 1 or 2 of Kikau/Leota/Clark are going to look elsewhere. It's reality of opportunity & cap management.

I'd love to keep him...but if another club gives him a stupid deal then I'm fine not matching it. It'd be a shame to lose him but that's football.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
22,996
Browne on 'nothing' is still taking up a top 25 spot and Kikau wasn't. You dont think you can re-sign a promising player for cheap by upgrading his existing contract and offering him a spot in the top 25?

Where's the risk in that? We got in early on plenty of other young guys. Extending contracts and promoting them anticipating they would play and it would be cheaper to do do early.

Browne doesn't actually offer us anything we didnt already have. That was the waste of money. A minimum wage top 25 spot is still a waste for a player who is inferior to about 7 or 8 other front rowers in our roster.

Its easy to say we just get rid of the likes of Mckendry and Hiku... we need to find a club who wants them. And honestly what club would want them? We would be paying the bulk of their contracts.
 

Big Mick

Referee
Messages
26,239
Browne on 'nothing' is still taking up a top 25 spot and Kikau wasn't. You dont think you can re-sign a promising player for cheap by upgrading his existing contract and offering him a spot in the top 25?

Where's the risk in that? We got in early on plenty of other young guys. Extending contracts and promoting them anticipating they would play and it would be cheaper to do do early.

Browne doesn't actually offer us anything we didnt already have. That was the waste of money. A minimum wage top 25 spot is still a waste for a player who is inferior to about 7 or 8 other front rowers in our roster.

Its easy to say we just get rid of the likes of Mckendry and Hiku... we need to find a club who wants them. And honestly what club would want them? We would be paying the bulk of their contracts.

Did you not read what I said about his player manager - or are you just getting angry for the sake of it? So yes...I don't think you can re-sign a promising player in 2016 for cheap by upgrading his existing contract when his player manager doesn't want to start conversations until 2017.

Considering we've done it for other guys...as you said...you honestly don't believe Gus didn't try?

McKendry has gotten interest from Warriors and ESL the last 2 years and plenty of clubs are lacking a starting centre or winger....look at the Titans. We aren't paying Hiku that much considering Manly paid last year's deal pretty much. And the major attraction of having McKendry sticking around up to this year was the long player discount which he was the only one to get it. From next season both Moylan and Mansour can get it so keeping Mac is not as necessary.

Plenty of clubs would jump at Hiku. GC, Newcastle, Dragons, Bulldogs, even ESL clubs....All need backs...especially ones that can play across the whole backline like Hiku can when fit.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
22,996
Actually who replaced Grevsmuhl in our top 25? Our site has more than 25 players in the NRL squad. A few without NRL experience
 

Big Mick

Referee
Messages
26,239
Actually who replaced Grevsmuhl in our top 25? Our site has more than 25 players in the NRL squad. A few without NRL experience

Edwards I believe. Not sure but.

You will always have some without NRL experience. That's what builds a squad.

I'm with you on your rants normally mate. But this one is just off the mark because the club tried and were told not until 2017. So what you want them to do?
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
22,996
Did you not read what I said about his player manager - or are you just getting angry for the sake of it? So yes...I don't think you can re-sign a promising player in 2016 for cheap by upgrading his existing contract when his player manager doesn't want to start conversations until 2017.

Considering we've done it for other guys...as you said...you honestly don't believe Gus didn't try?

McKendry has gotten interest from Warriors and ESL the last 2 years and plenty of clubs are lacking a starting centre or winger....look at the Titans. We aren't paying Hiku that much considering Manly paid last year's deal pretty much.

Plenty of clubs would jump at Hiku. GC, Newcastle, Dragons, Bulldogs, ESL....All need backs...especially ones that can play across the whole backline like Hiku can when fit.
You expect me to take your word for it? Where's your source that we tried to upgrade and extend him already? That certainly wasnt public knowledge. And our club doesnt do much without everyone knowing.

And if we did that, how can you argue with me for suggesting that we should have done that when its exactly what you claim we tried to do. If he said no. Fair enough. But i don't take a persons word for that without some sort of source.

Hiku hasnt done himself any favors since being here. No chance a club pays shat we did for him. We paid for a NZ International. He has delivered as a fringe first grader.

He won't even be in our top 17 at full strength. Clubs would try and sign him cheap if we're lucky.
 

Big Mick

Referee
Messages
26,239
You expect me to take your word for it? Where's your source that we tried to upgrade and extend him already?

And if we did that, how can you argue eith me for suggesting that we should have done that when its exactly what you claim we tried to do.

Hiku hasnt done himself any favors since being here. No chance a club pays shat we did for him. We paid for a NZ International. He has delivered as a fringe first grader.

He won't even be in our top 17 at full strength. Clubs would try and sign him cheap if we're lucky.

I'm not arguing with you for suggesting it. I'm arguing with you because you are slamming the club for not doing it when they tried to do it.

Even if that is the case with Hiku we'd only absorb at most half for 1 year and that's it. Cap also increasing considerably.
 
Last edited:

billypilgrimnz

First Grade
Messages
5,164
I don't know how you'd argue known average plodder Browne over taking a risk on an up and comer in Kikau. Makes no sense. And to just say "I trust in the clubs recruitment/squad management" ignores the fact that, you know what, sometimes it's shit (Austin, for example).
 

Big Mick

Referee
Messages
26,239
I don't know how you'd argue known average plodder Browne over taking a risk on an up and comer in Kikau. Makes no sense. And to just say "I trust in the clubs recruitment/squad management" ignores the fact that, you know what, sometimes it's shit (Austin, for example).

Nah dude. I didn't like the Browne signing either. I would have much rather ride with what he had...but end of the day doesn't change the fact that they believed in Kikau despite injury last year. It's easy to say "Well we should have done this while cheap"...but in reality, they tried. Not sure how you want them to proceed?

Would I have signed Browne and last year Hiku...nope. But it's fish & chips wrapping now.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,441
I'm not suggesting we break the bank for him. I'm suggesting we should have offered him an upgraded deal last year and to extend it before he was a target from other teams. Rather than signing someone we all knew would offer nothing to the team.

Players with that size and athleticism are rare. He's a freak of nature. He's happy to throw his weight around and loves the contact. Only injury will stop him from being a beast.

How do you know we didn't offer him an upgraded deal? It seems the type of thing we have been doing if it was someone we wanted to keep. And let's be realistic, Kikau was a very talented junior last year but he wasn't a must keep I doubt even you thought that, now since his great debut last week you are upset he wasn't offered a bigger deal last year. It's just seems a bit over the top to me. Anyway despite the poor first round I'm pretty f**king happy with where the club is at ATM so I'm not going to bag them because we might lose a guy. Like if you rate Kikau as a must keep after that game that means we have atleast 5 other guys under 22 that are on the same level in terms of being a great prospect. We aren't going to keep them all, the salary cap is designed to ensure we can't and we aren't Brisbane with a city's worth of 3rd party deals at our disposal.
 
Last edited:

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
22,996
And let's be realistic, Kikau wasn't must keep last year I doubt even you thought that, now since his great debut you are upset he wasn't offered a bigger deal last year. It's just seems a bit over the top to me.
Go back and look at my posts when we signed Tim Browne. I was saying exactly what I am saying now.

His debut has nothing to do with it. Just as I was against signing Hiku due to juniors with potential able to do the same or a better job. I was against signing Browne.

I rate our players ahead of guys like them... and our players are proving to be better than them.
 
Messages
17,744
People need to chill. Gus is a flog but since he's been here we keep who we want and hes only made a few small mistakes....Brent "the pillow" Kite
 
Messages
17,744
Another mistake was not rating Moylan. Our club would be nothing without him. No idea how Ivan and Gus got that one so wrong
 
Messages
2,571
Another mistake was not rating Moylan. Our club would be nothing without him. No idea how Ivan and Gus got that one so wrong

It happens mate. I'm sure every club goes through a point in time where it's glaringly obvious that letting certain players go would come back and bite.

I still remember in 2001 when we let Brad Drew go to Parra. That first game in 2001 (and then again in 2002) is something I want to erase from my memory back...especially after witnessing Drew tear us a new one.

Then again I'm sure the Sharks fans felt the same way when Preston Campbell came to us in 2003 :thumbsup:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top