shorten promises the best of labor to come

Discussion in 'Four Corners' started by B-dos, Jul 5, 2017.

  1. Mong

    Mong Immortal

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    That's because you're ignorant and stupid as has been pointed out numerous times previously.

    I bet you still believe Howard never once told a lie.

    :joy::joy:
     
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  2. Jimbo

    Jimbo Immortal

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    Hi chatty! :D
     
  3. bazza

    bazza Coach

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    When wealthy people succeed it is due to their own hard work
    When wealthy people fail it is due to the government/society
     
  4. sensesmaybenumbed

    sensesmaybenumbed Moderator Staff Member

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    Privatise profits, socialise losses?
     
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  5. B-dos

    B-dos Referee

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    i have never opposed public healthcare senses

    ill just chalk this up to yet another example of the outraged left making up complete garbage

    surely if i regularly supported such evil things, you guys could come up with an example or two?
     
  6. B-dos

    B-dos Referee

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    we need to take more money from wealthy and successful people to give to less wealthy and less successful people because that is only 'fair'
     
  7. bazza

    bazza Coach

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    wealthy and successful people need to take personal responsibility when they cease to be wealthy and successful
     
  8. B-dos

    B-dos Referee

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    government regulation and taxation has no impact on businesses.
     
  9. Jimbo

    Jimbo Immortal

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    Bazza's platitudes are relevant and thought-provoking
     
  10. sensesmaybenumbed

    sensesmaybenumbed Moderator Staff Member

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    Here you go:

    Oh dear....
    You mean to invest in things like high level socialised medical services, public education or public transport? How is that not 'fair'?

    Your continued assumption that the money is simply taken from the 'wealthy' and handed to the 'poor' is an example of the outraged right making up complete garbage.
     
  11. B-dos

    B-dos Referee

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    spending taxpayers money on essential public services is a good thing and fair

    i dont share your view that placing more of the burden on wealthy people rather than reducing unnecessary govt spending is 'fair'

    the overwhelming beneficiaries of government spending are people in lower to zero income brackets
     
  12. sensesmaybenumbed

    sensesmaybenumbed Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks, scoop.
     
  13. B-dos

    B-dos Referee

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    im glad you now agree

    let me know if you need any other obvious facts confirmed

    cheers
     
  14. sensesmaybenumbed

    sensesmaybenumbed Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh dear. /patronising tone
     
  15. Surely

    Surely Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes
     
  16. sportive cupid

    sportive cupid Referee

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    Thats not true for government spending on universal systems (as opposed to public systems) of health and education
    The public systems you are debating are safe net welfare systems where the poor get just enough assistance to stay afloat but not enough to have the capacity to challenge the ecomonic /social system that arbitrarily places them in the powerless position that they are in .
    The rich get richer and moan even mire about the poor they have to support.

    Thats not the same as universal models of health and education that place everyone at the same level of power ti access service paid for by all. In these models the necessesity to aquire wealth in order to access quality health and education (the example) is decreased and the link between wealth and power begins to deminish .

    Its not just semantics ,but lots of posters in here are letting you get away with it .

    I'd say richer people fear universal models much more than they fear public services.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017
  17. B-dos

    B-dos Referee

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    this is just waffle

    give me an example of what youre talking about and how it can be fixed?

    people dont need money to access quality health and education in this country SC

    you are speaking utter garbage again

    get away with what?
     
  18. Surely

    Surely Moderator Staff Member

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    We are socialists. We are enemies, deadly enemies, of today’s capitalist economic system with its exploitation of the economically weak, its unfair wage system, its immoral way of judging the worth of human beings in terms of their wealth and their money, instead of their responsibility and their performance, and we are determined to destroy this system whatever happens!


    I think that's pretty much bills position
     
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  19. sportive cupid

    sportive cupid Referee

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    B-do's,if you read my post in its entirety you might understand it better.

    People need money to access quality health and education under a dual system of orivate and public service provision.
    I was discussing the difference between a universal model and a safety net welfare model .
    Medibank under Gough was a universal model .Care was provided to those who needed it and it was paid for by public money.It includes preventive universally available primary health care and tertiary acute services.
    Medicare under the Libs (and to be fair Labor under Hawke /Keating too) is a dual system where people can opt out of universal system (eg the orivate cover rebate) if they have the finances .
    The univerdal part becomes a publc system mistly for thise who cant afford to opt out.

    Education is somewhat the same .If you fund private schools alongside public schools the univetsal becomes a public system where those who can afford it can opt out.They get their rebate in the form of public funds to top up parents fees.

    They are both designed to undermine the universal model and turn it into a safety net welfare model.The next step is to question why so much tax payers (ie those who are opting out of the universal )money should be soent on lazy people who obviously arent utilising that money to better themselves (just look at the poor results!)


    Thats what Im talking about.


    Cut and paste away.
     
  20. B-dos

    B-dos Referee

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    ill just cut and paste the comments and questions you ignored in favour of more inane dribble:



    give me an example of what youre talking about and how it can be fixed?

    people dont need money to access quality health and education in this country SC

    get away with what?
     

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