Should there be 2 teams in Brisbane?

[rednblack]

Sorry, double post

 

[Red&BlackBear]

Which is why you can't use the same measuring stick in regards to "fan engagement" with all bids.

Err, they aren't sitting on their arses. All bids have developed financial models, sought sponsors. They will all have viable bid documents to submit. You are using the Bears measuring stick to guage other bids in some areas (such as memberships), yet are unwilling to conceed deficiencies in other aspects (such as TV rights).

I'm not using the same "measuring stick". I'm making a real assertion about the bids, hence why I typed words like "sponsors", "audiences" and "resources". Read the full script not just the parts which satisfy your argument.

 

[Loudstrat]

Can someone tell Dimwit Dave that Redcliffe is 30kms from Lang Park and the middle of Brisbane????

And FYI Gosford is 50 kms from Hornsby. Making it twice as far to the nearest NRL ground as Redcliffe is to Lang.

But Redcliffe is too far and Gosford is too close. ](*,)

If the only option is to add a 10th team to the Sydney region then I would rather see no expansion. But I am sure the Reds are ready to go and I hope the Jets will be as well.

And hey...that aggressive competitor is already a national competition and it's way past time for the NRL to do the same. When NRL goes national it will be the beginning of the end for AFL.

So you are AFL paranoid.

Now you want to cut the Warriors? Why do you hate use being INTERNATIONAL???????????????

The AFL is as national as you left butt cheek.

It has 2 teams outside a state capital. We have 6.

It has no club further than a 1/2 hour drive from the coast. We have 3

It has no club in the Illawarra, North Queensland, the ACT or the Hunter. It has 2 clubs in the northern 80% of Australia ffs! Is that really your blueprint for the NRL?

 

[bobmar28]

Can someone tell Dimwit Dave that Redcliffe is 30kms from Lang Park and the middle of Brisbane????

And FYI Gosford is 50 kms from Hornsby. Making it twice as far to the nearest NRL ground as Redcliffe is to Lang.

But Redcliffe is too far and Gosford is too close. ](*,)
So you are AFL paranoid.

Now you want to cut the Warriors? Why do you hate use being INTERNATIONAL???????????????

The AFL is as national as you left butt cheek.

It has 2 teams outside a state capital. We have 6.

It has no club further than a 1/2 hour drive from the coast. We have 3

It has no club in the Illawarra, North Queensland, the ACT or the Hunter. It has 2 clubs in the northern 80% of Australia ffs! Is that really your blueprint for the NRL?

Isn't the reason for their $1.2 billion TV contract the fact that they are a national competition?

 

[age.s]

Isn't the reason for their $1.2 billion TV contract the fact that they are a national competition?

Not in regards to TV they aren't. Their TV numbers in the northern states are abysmal with the AFL being beaten regularly by whatever is on SBS. They're helped by the fact that their game is structurally suited to commercial tv (regular breaks for ads, long game time) and Foxtel paid overs to drive a membership push into the southern states.

It's not like that number can be compared to anything in the NRL either. We don't have our dots as evenly spread as they do, but we get more people watching our game on the box. Go figure.

 

[Loudstrat]

Isn't the reason for their $1.2 billion TV contract the fact that they are a national competition?

National? :lol::lol::lol:

5 state capitals aint national you idiot!

The code that represents most Australians is Rugby League.

The only TV sport that has teams from every state is Cricket.

Maybe you should define "National", because RL is INTERnational - which is bigger.

 

[flippikat]

National? :lol::lol::lol:

5 state capitals aint national you idiot!

The code that represents most Australians is Rugby League.

The only TV sport that has teams from every state is Cricket.

Maybe you should define "National", because RL is INTERnational - which is bigger.

When you look at dots on a map, the AFL is more wide-spread in Australia than the NRL.

Basically, the AFL regularly has games scheduled in every round across all timezones - if that ain't totally national, then it's at least a whole lot more national than the NRL.

As far as Australian teams are concerned, we have better spread of teams outside state capitals than the AFL (Cowboys, Raiders, Dragons, Knights, Titans play outside state capitals vs just Geelong Cats & Gold Coast in AFL), but that just illustrates 2 things

- There are decent-sized cities in NSW/Brisbane that are not Sydney or Brisbane (and apparently not that many in AFL states?)

- Most teams in the comp are NSW & Qld based.

Until we have a team in WA, we're not even close to covering Australia.

But your final point is the big one - people in New Zealand give a damn about Rugby League. So do those in the north of England. So too do pockets of France, and the South Pacific islands.

We can have games against overseas teams without having to make some stupid "international rules" hybrid game.

When the NRL's Australian expansion matches AFL capital-for-capital, THAT is our trump card.

 

[Loudstrat]

And then do we get a prize?

Australia is a massive country. Having a presence in 5 state capitals - all which are on the coast - is only tokenism. Queensland is the perfect example - the only state where the majority do not live in the capital. Yet the AFL has a token presence in Brisbane, and that's enough to be called "National"? It's not only League that recognises North Queensland for instance.

Being called something means nothing. What means something is access to market. Market means people.

The reason we go to Perth is to service a market. Not so say we are "National"

Besides, AFL isnt national - where's their club from Tasmania, the ACT or the Northern Territory?

 

[Perth Red]

And then do we get a prize?

Australia is a massive country. Having a presence in 5 state capitals - all which are on the coast - is only tokenism.
The reason we go to Perth is to service a market. Not so say we are "National"

Besides, AFL isnt national - where's their club from Tasmania, the ACT or the Northern Territory?

A $1.25billion token!

Tasmania: http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=115712
ACT: http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=105020
Darwin: http://newsroom.nt.gov.au/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewRelease&id=8808&d=5

Compare this to NRL where we are lucky to get one game a year in Hobart, Adelaide, Darwin or Perth and then it is at the whim of the club involved. Again we are years behind, catching up but still years behind.

The annoying thing is how AFL manages to get State Govt's to pay big dollars to get games in these places yet NRL fails every time to get any financial support. A big part of this imo is that the AFL negotiate with Govt for these expansion games but in the NRL it is left to clubs or the local league to try and make it happen.

 

[docbrown]

Sponsors being attracted to the AFL because it's "national" is a myth put out by the AFL's propaganda machine. The sponsors are attracted because of the game's exposure in WA, SA & VIC.

You don't sponsor Fremantle thinking that it will boost your market presence in Brisbane.

The game has got a mediocre presence in NSW & QLD - the biggest media markets in the country by far. In fact it has already been shown elsewhere that not only are Rugby League fans more affluent than AFL fans - despite the strong wealth in WA for the AFL - but that the Storm are actually on par in Melbourne with what the Swans support is Sydney, if not actually ahead - despite being blacked out on television for years.

Why can't the Raiders get a decent sponsor this year? They will always struggle in an isolated town like Canberra - but further more when you're performing poorly and can't get actually free to air broadcasts, over a long enough time span that starts to affect the interest.

The AFL has 14 teams representing 45% of the population and 4 teams representing the other 55%.

The NRL has 14 teams representing 55% of the population, 1 team representing another 25% and no teams in the other 25%.

Both are highly skewed but think about it this way -

AFL is played in Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne, Geelong, Sydney, Gold Coast & Brisbane on a regular basis - 7 cities

The AFL plays other season matches in Darwin, Canberra, Cairns & Hobart

NRL is played in Townsville, Brisbane, Gold Coast, Newcastle, Sydney, Wollongong, Canberra & Melbourne on a regular basis - 8 cities plus a 9th in Auckland

The NRL plays other season matches in Perth, Adelaide, Gosford in Australia and usually also Wellington or Christchurch.

If we add teams in Perth, Gosford, Brisbane & Wellington then we're going to be even further ahead on that count.

No doubt the AFL tryhards will come up with some other excuse.

 

[Perth Red]

Sponsors being attracted to the AFL because it's "national" is a myth put out by the AFL's propaganda machine. The sponsors are attracted because of the game's exposure in WA, SA & VIC.

You don't sponsor Fremantle thinking that it will boost your market presence in Brisbane.

The game has got a mediocre presence in NSW & QLD - the biggest media markets in the country by far. In fact it has already been shown elsewhere that not only are Rugby League fans more affluent than AFL fans - despite the strong wealth in WA for the AFL - but that the Storm are actually on par in Melbourne with what the Swans support is Sydney, if not actually ahead - despite being blacked out on television for years.

Why can't the Raiders get a decent sponsor this year? They will always struggle in an isolated town like Canberra - but further more when you're performing poorly and can't get actually free to air broadcasts, over a long enough time span that starts to affect the interest.

The AFL has 14 teams representing 45% of the population and 4 teams representing the other 55%.

The NRL has 14 teams representing 55% of the population, 1 team representing another 25% and no teams in the other 25%.

Both are highly skewed but think about it this way -

AFL is played in Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne, Geelong, Sydney, Gold Coast & Brisbane on a regular basis - 7 cities

The AFL plays other season matches in Darwin, Canberra, Cairns & Hobart

NRL is played in Townsville, Brisbane, Gold Coast, Newcastle, Sydney, Wollongong, Canberra & Melbourne on a regular basis - 8 cities plus a 9th in Auckland

The NRL plays other season matches in Perth, Adelaide, Gosford in Australia and usually also Wellington or Christchurch.

If we add teams in Perth, Gosford, Brisbane & Wellington then we're going to be even further ahead on that count.

No doubt the AFL tryhards will come up with some other excuse.

It may well be myth but at the end of the day that myth is leading to perception and that perception is driving very good $ income for them. On the whole the AFL runs rings around us when it comes to funding, at a competition, club and local league level. Do you think we will get an equal deal to AFL for naming rights and media rights this time around?

 

[docbrown]

It may well be myth but at the end of the day that myth is leading to perception and that perception is driving very good $ income for them. On the whole the AFL runs rings around us when it comes to funding, at a competition, club and local league level. Do you think we will get an equal deal to AFL for naming rights and media rights this time around?

Myth =/= fact though. No network is buying AFL TV rights for the brilliant ratings in Sydney & Brisbane so this whole 'national' thing is baloney. Like I've said before, see what happens if you put AFL or NRL on a Sunday night on FTA. You will see the myth for what it is.

Will we get an equal deal? Well it's not comparing like for like.

They have 9 games a week now but we have representative matches and a slightly longer season. They have a televised pre-season cup and we do not. They have 4 FTA games simulcast. We have 3 FTA games at the moment.

The NRL needs to look at:
* Simulcasting
* Increasing the number of FTA games
* Increasing them in a way that boosts their ratings and advertising revenue to the maximum
* The best method of doing this is to have the extra game feed off another - a double header on a Sunday
* Fridays can be capitalised on by starting coverage earlier at 7pm or simulcasting both games 7:30pm and then swapping over at 9pm (over 2 channels) - more people watch at 7 & 7:30pm then at 11:00pm
* Increasing coverage time - at the moment there's 6 hours on FTA a week. With double headers and buffers this could increase to 9-10 hours.
* Increasing interactivity online during games - through facebook, twitter & dedicate NRL networks to increase traffic and online revenue
* Streaming & downloading internet games
* Addressing the commercial plays during existing dead time in matches and potentially adjusting the clock and half times etc
* Shifting the first week Saturday finals from 6:30pm to 10:30pm to 3:30pm to 9:00pm
* Introducing televised preseason matches
* Having a fixed international tournament with guaranteed matches each year
* Be able to sell off the 9th expansion game at a later date or have balloon payment clause for it
* The radio networks and also stream of radio coverage online
* Introducing a lower tier challenge cup system with every team in their region participating within their own respective tournaments. Derby match up during the season can then be sold in the same vein as college football bowl matches and be held as part of local community football days to build an atmosphere. At the end of the season winners from all these tournaments are seeded in a way to minimise travel and maximum more derby games (for instance Newcastle NRL might play off against a Central Coast winner etc). This would be conducted over a straight 4 to 5 week knockout period with the final match held on NRL Grand Final day - and perhaps if it increases in scale, the day before hand - that's a good 30-60 matches a year of extra material in the vein of the Toyota Cup

I could think of a bunch of other things but a bit tired at the moment. I'm sure I'll see this on The Roar soon enough.

 

[smithie]

Myth =/= fact though. No network is buying AFL TV rights for the brilliant ratings in Sydney & Brisbane so this whole 'national' thing is baloney. Like I've said before, see what happens if you put AFL or NRL on a Sunday night on FTA. You will see the myth for what it is.

Will we get an equal deal? Well it's not comparing like for like.

They have 9 games a week now but we have representative matches and a slightly longer season. They have a televised pre-season cup and we do not. They have 4 FTA games simulcast. We have 3 FTA games at the moment.

The NRL needs to look at:
* Simulcasting
* Increasing the number of FTA games
* Increasing them in a way that boosts their ratings and advertising revenue to the maximum
* The best method of doing this is to have the extra game feed off another - a double header on a Sunday
* Fridays can be capitalised on by starting coverage earlier at 7pm or simulcasting both games 7:30pm and then swapping over at 9pm (over 2 channels) - more people watch at 7 & 7:30pm then at 11:00pm
* Increasing coverage time - at the moment there's 6 hours on FTA a week. With double headers and buffers this could increase to 9-10 hours.
* Increasing interactivity online during games - through facebook, twitter & dedicate NRL networks to increase traffic and online revenue
* Streaming & downloading internet games
* Addressing the commercial plays during existing dead time in matches and potentially adjusting the clock and half times etc
* Shifting the first week Saturday finals from 6:30pm to 10:30pm to 3:30pm to 9:00pm
* Introducing televised preseason matches
* Having a fixed international tournament with guaranteed matches each year
* Be able to sell off the 9th expansion game at a later date or have balloon payment clause for it
* The radio networks and also stream of radio coverage online
* Introducing a lower tier challenge cup system with every team in their region participating within their own respective tournaments. Derby match up during the season can then be sold in the same vein as college football bowl matches and be held as part of local community football days to build an atmosphere. At the end of the season winners from all these tournaments are seeded in a way to minimise travel and maximum more derby games (for instance Newcastle NRL might play off against a Central Coast winner etc). This would be conducted over a straight 4 to 5 week knockout period with the final match held on NRL Grand Final day - and perhaps if it increases in scale, the day before hand - that's a good 30-60 matches a year of extra material in the vein of the Toyota Cup

I could think of a bunch of other things but a bit tired at the moment. I'm sure I'll see this on The Roar soon enough.

* All games, PayTV and FTA, broadcast in HD.

 

[Mr Angry]

you all seem too miss that RL started to get paid even more so work cover....

But hey now that we are there, and players are in fact looked after.,we whine......




all for our entertainment.

 

[docbrown]

* All games, PayTV and FTA, broadcast in HD.

It's something they need to look at but not really something they'll get money for.

If we want to look at those other issues then there's also Digital coverage on FTA in Southern States & Showing all Perth & Melbourne away games on FTA on digital in those states. Also whether to switch to a fixed schedule. My preference is for a combination whereby the first few rounds are locked in, the final few round are all floating and in between all the big derby games are locked in so blockbuster matches can be moved. This allows for the crowd benefits of fixed scheduling minus the TV impact. Further more I want big derby games promoted as 3/4 way cup matches - Sydney West, Sydney East, F3, Queensland & Tasman etc.

A few other things:
* Showing a QLD team on FTA every Friday & Sunday (with 4 QLD teams in the comp to boost QLD audiences)
* Setting expansion goals to Perth, Adelaide & Brisbane to boost the metro Oztam appeal
* Introducing a 2nd NZ team to boost that market's appeal, ratings, advertising and sponsorship plus further down the track a 3rd team
* A dedicated Foxtel channel
* Boosting the appeal of the World Club Challenge into a proper anticipated concept
* Creating a Round 22 Hall of Fame Round - that week all clubs have their tributes etc but on the Sunday there'd be a big NRL matched played at Homebush with juniors getting in for free. Have former stars their signing autographs. The prelude to the NRL match would be a televised Legends match featuring former players & identities which would become that game's annual fixture. On this day you'd have all the players making milestones have the presentations for all grades - Club, Origin, Tests for the number of games, restart the Hall of Fame inductees and every so often make the announcement of the next Immortal. Do this well and you could have coverage stretching from noon to 6pm as a celebration of rugby league. Plus it'd dominate the Sunday news.
* When the Monday is a public holiday, stage several big Sunday night games for foxtel to cover
* Televise the special holiday games on F2A no matter what - Anzac Day etc and also look at the other under utilised events like Queen's Birthday etc
* Bring back the World 7's on a 4 year cycle featuring club teams, international teams and rep teams - but they only converge for the finals. In the 2nd year of the 4 year cycle have a regional 7's tournament, the one in Australia/NZ could feature Asia-Pacific teams, South Africa and USA as a qualifier for the World 7's - i.e. a 7's tournament every second year

 

[Loudstrat]

A $1.25billion token!

Tasmania: http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=115712
ACT: http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=105020
Darwin: http://newsroom.nt.gov.au/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewRelease&id=8808&d=5

Compare this to NRL where we are lucky to get one game a year in Hobart, Adelaide, Darwin or Perth and then it is at the whim of the club involved. Again we are years behind, catching up but still years behind.

The annoying thing is how AFL manages to get State Govt's to pay big dollars to get games in these places yet NRL fails every time to get any financial support. A big part of this imo is that the AFL negotiate with Govt for these expansion games but in the NRL it is left to clubs or the local league to try and make it happen.

Yes Tokenism. 2 games to Tassie when they were screaming out for a side! We could fulvil your "National comp" obsession by sending Souths v Cronulla over to Perth twice.

Not to mention GWS and their interstate home ground :lol: Using that one, can we introduce the Perth Reds playing half their home games at the SFS?

Doc has got it dead right.

Personally I could not care less if AFL got more $ than the NRL. As long as we get enough to sustain our product to the level it is with the greatest talent in the country by a Hayne drop kick I'm happy - and that's the whole point.

I find it offensive that Hobart, Adelaide and Darwin are considered to be essential in a "national" comp, and Canberra, Newcastle, Wollongong and Townsville are not - despite the latter 4 all being bigger!

Oh, and no one is suggesting that the AFL ever needed to cull teams either!

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Wondering whether there should be two teams in Brisbane would be like asking if there should be three teams in Sydney, if there wasn't already 8 1/2.

 

[Loudstrat]

Probably is, but there ARE 8 1/2 teams in Sydney all humming along winning legal premierships etc. In Brisbane they havent been able to get the second yet without falling over. Hopefully Logan or Ipswich will fare better.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Um, two words... salary cap. Remove it and see which clubs are winning premierships. And there has only ever been one other club in Brisbane and it did not "fall over".

 

[Perth Red]

You'd have to be pretty stupid to think that there shouldn't be two teams in Brisbane playing out of Suncorp, it's a no brainer even for Loudy. I don't see much argument that there shouldn't be other than from supporters of the Bears bid TBH. If that is a SW Jets or whatever or a Bombers or a third option is the real debate. Hopefully the NRL IC will do what the NRL did with the GC and steer them in a direction that see the game get its strategic expansion with a Brisbane bid everyone is happy with.