Sydney relocations

[Perth Red]

To try and save the Brothers thread let's discuss the pros and cons of Sydney saturation and potential relocation here. If we have a moderator on here maybe you can move the posts out of the Brothers thread please?

 

[BuffaloRules]

So the first and most obvious question.

Which teams do people think should relocate?

I honestly can't see an argument for any them.

 

[Perth Red]

I think we are def seeing a development of big and small clubs. Those clubs who have embraced a city wide appeal v's those that are sticking to their suburban roots and ltd fanbases.

Bulldogs, souths, roosters would be the big three
Parra, tigers, st's 2nd tier
Manly, sharks panthers the small clubs

When you consider sharks and tigers can't get sponsors, st's can't pay their rent, manly just survive at the whim of their board, panthers until last year were flat broke, parra are rumoured to be in financial strife, tigers needed bailing out by NRL etc there is clearly some major issues.

If you were going to force the situation then sharks, manly and panthers would be most at risk you'd think?

 

[BuffaloRules]

The Sharks will have financial security now that their development on their land is giving them a return. The only threat to their existence will be getting sued by players over the Peptide issue.

Penrith are turning things around and have plans to build a football academy. They also have ties to one of the biggest clubs in the country.

Manly are the only team in Northern Sydney now. They have ambitions for a redevelopment of the council owned ground, with local member Tony Abbots assistance. If this goes ahead they will seek assurances that the NRL club sticks around. They do have a poor long term current financial outlook though.

The Tigers have probably averaged the third highest crowds in the NRL over the past 10 years. They have one of the best supporter groups in the country that extends beyond Sydney.

The Tigers and Manly may need some support from the NRL though, however I think it's worth them spending the coin. I think the Titans and Newcastle have received support from the NRL previously.

You realise that the AFL puts money into some Melboyrne clubs right? North Melbourne immediately comes to mind.

 

[TheRam]

If you ask me, to have an NRL license, your junior development must be at least 60-70% of the requirement. If you don't develop, then you don't get a license. I mean what good does a club like the Roosters do for RL? Besides just ingratiating themselves with other clubs players and then collecting trophies and then thinking they are kings of the world, what good are they? What do they offer/create for the game to grow? Absolutely nothing!!

Also Manly, Canterbury & Cronulla all fall into this category, but to a lesser extent.

 

[Ourimbah Magpies]

We have a saturation of Sydney clubs because it was once called the NSWRL, then the ARL and now the NRL. The NRL need to stop helping these clubs out of their financial problems again and again and again. Let them die a natural death. These clubs had their hands out before the new television deal was inked and as I said at the time "they will have their hands out long after it expires". Its like when the Central Coast bid of 2005 was overlooked for the newest Gold Coast model put forward after the previous failures of the Giants, the Seagulls and the Chargers. People talk about Perth but as I have said again and again and again, where are their juniors, its an AFL state. People are saying on one hand that their isn't enough quality playing talent and then they want to start up in an AFL heartland, yeah good one, absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Perth Red]

I think that despite the popularity of afl in melbourne the afl is having to bail clubs out and take money from successful clubs to do so shows that nine teams in one city is never going to be sustainable.

Yes the NRL could give two or three clubs more money to keep them going, if that is a good thing or not us up to the NRL.

For us without a club to support it sticks in the throat when they say they can't expand until existing clubs are stable, for some clubs that may never happen.

 

[Ourimbah Magpies]

If you ask me, to have an NRL license, your junior development must be at least 60-70% of the requirement. If you don't develop, then you don't get a license. I mean what good does a club like the Roosters do for RL? Besides just ingratiating themselves with other clubs players and then collecting trophies and then thinking they are kings of the world, what good are they? What do they offer/create for the game to grow? Absolutely nothing!!

Also Manly, Canterbury & Cronulla all fall into this category, but to a lesser extent.

Finally somebody on here talking sense!!!

 

[Perth Red]

We have a saturation of Sydney clubs because it was once called the NSWRL, then the ARL and now the NRL. The NRL need to stop helping these clubs out of their financial problems again and again and again. Let them die a natural death. These clubs had their hands out before the new television deal was inked and as I said at the time "they will have their hands out long after it expires". Its like when the Central Coast bid of 2005 was overlooked for the newest Gold Coast model put forward after the previous failures of the Giants, the Seagulls and the Chargers. People talk about Perth but as I have said again and again and again, where are their juniors, its an AFL state. People are saying on one hand that their isn't enough quality playing talent and then they want to start up in an AFL heartland, yeah good one, absolutely ridiculous.

It is that thinking that has caused an amazing game on the field to be one of the most geographically minority sports in the world. You think any code that has managed to grow its appeal beyond its traditional boundaries hasn't done so by expanding into new markets with little history of playing the game?

 

[Ourimbah Magpies]

Yes and player talent ?, let Perth compete in the NSW or QLD Cups first, prove their wealth of talent. Then the ARLC should give them a look.

 

[Perth Red]

Lol, yes because that means zero. Tell me do you consider the a storm to have been positive expansion of the game? They are still weaker than us at grass roots and have managed to develop one NRL player compared to our half dozen or so in last few years. By your criteria we should not have an NRL team in melbourne. Still you are probably happy with the 12k crowds at run down grounds in Sydney so my question is rhetorical.

 

[Ourimbah Magpies]

Yes we have an NRL team in Melbourne, they are virtually a relocated QLD side, they have cheated to win competitions and despite being brought out by an English millionaire they are still running at a loss despite their success on the field. Has their admittance been a success to rugby league ?....lets start that debate shall we ?. I am not happy with the crowds in Sydney but the NRL keep offering money to keep these sides afloat, let them get their own houses in order or let them die a natural death.

 

[BuffaloRules]

I think that despite the popularity of afl in melbourne the afl is having to bail clubs out and take money from successful clubs to do so shows that nine teams in one city is never going to be sustainable.

en.

So why do you think they do it?

My theory is that they like the stranglehold that the game has over the whole city, and they are respecting the traditions that decades old clubs bring to the game. They also aren't keen on negative publicity and the instability of teams falling over that the NRL has had in spades over the past 20 years.

If its good enough for them.....

 

[TheRam]

I think that despite the popularity of afl in melbourne the afl is having to bail clubs out and take money from successful clubs to do so shows that nine teams in one city is never going to be sustainable.

Yes the NRL could give two or three clubs more money to keep them going, if that is a good thing or not us up to the NRL.

For us without a club to support it sticks in the throat when they say they can't expand until existing clubs are stable, for some clubs that may never happen.

I agree totally. The league has to be bias here and only prop teams up that deserve propping up. In other words, if they are of strategical benefit to the game as a whole? If not cut them loose. I.E. Cronulla & Roosters don't have a leg to stand on.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Lol, yes because that means zero. Tell me do you consider the a storm to have been positive expansion of the game? They are still weaker than us at grass roots and have managed to develop one NRL player compared to our half dozen or so in last few years. By your criteria we should not have an NRL team in melbourne. Still you are probably happy with the 12k crowds at run down grounds in Sydney so my question is rhetorical.

There are plenty of 12k crowds outside Sydney too, and a lot of these teams play in comparitively new grounds so I'm not sure how they can improve.

At least there is some reason to think that Manly could improve their crowds if they didn't have to play in such a crap ground. We know that their wont be much chance of this happening at the Gold Coast.

Canberra got 9k tonight btw. Are you happy for them to remain in the comp?

 

[Rodney]

They wouldn't remove any Sydney clubs after going on such a big membership drive.
Why would you encourage people to become members of a club that wont be there/ will be in NSW cup in 5 years? That sort of move would piss a lot of people off.

 

[CC_Roosters]

I agree totally. The league has to be bias here and only prop teams up that deserve propping up. In other words, if they are of strategical benefit to the game as a whole? If not cut them loose. I.E. Cronulla & Roosters don't have a leg to stand on.

Sorry but we are doing fine thanks. Plenty of none sydney sides who are nowhere near us on and off the field and I couldn't see any new sides bringing the big end of town to the game like we do.

I happen to think no side will be relocated in the nrl ever. Its just not in the games DNA and people only bring it up as the afl have had two relatively successful sides who were borne out of two teams in much worst state than any current sydney nrl club is in or has been in. The increased grant and sydney clubs outpacing out of town sides In general on memberships and crowds (minus Broncos)will keep the status quo for the forseeable future. The most I can see happening is one more merger or split with Gosford similar to the dragons for one side.

 

[TheRam]

Sorry but we are doing fine thanks. Plenty of none sydney sides who are nowhere near us on and off the field and I couldn't see any new sides bringing the big end of town to the game like we do.

I happen to think no side will be relocated in the nrl ever. Its just not in the games DNA and people only bring it up as the afl have had two relatively successful sides who were borne out of two teams in much worst state than any current sydney nrl club is in or has been in. The increased grant and sydney clubs outpacing out of town sides In general on memberships and crowds (minus Broncos)will keep the status quo for the forseeable future. The most I can see happening is one more merger or split with Gosford similar to the dragons for one side.

I agree, unfortunately.

 

[georgesnmith]

what the NRL should do is encourage the dragons and tigers to give up sydney and play in their regional bases

they should offer up 1 million a year for each club to play 8 of their home games in wollongong and campbelltown respectively, with their big derby games still in sydney.

cronulla look like their development will be ok so give them time they can be a powerhouse

the rest are all fine.

 

[bobmar28]

There are plenty of 12k crowds outside Sydney too, and a lot of these teams play in comparitively new grounds so I'm not sure how they can improve.

At least there is some reason to think that Manly could improve their crowds if they didn't have to play in such a crap ground. We know that their wont be much chance of this happening at the Gold Coast.

Canberra got 9k tonight btw. Are you happy for them to remain in the comp?

The difference is Canberra and Gold Coast don't each have nine teams Like Sydney does. Of course they should remain in the NRL.