Team vs Souths

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

What part of all this don't some of you get?

Well I didn't GET that at all. What I mean is I didn't know that. Until now, so thanks for that but maybe you should consider that maybe not everybody knows what you just mentioned.

 

[vvvrulz]

(sigh) under the salary cup you get to bring players up to fill positions open due to injury with special dispensation under the salary cap. If you can play the player in your top squad back in the position you HAVE to or be over the second tier cap .

Doesn't sound right.

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

Big test for our pack this week and thats no thanks to Mark Carroll who had to go and piss the Burgess twins off and now they're in form all of a sudden.

 

[Rich102]

(sigh) under the salary cup you get to bring players up to fill positions open due to injury with special dispensation under the salary cap. If you can play the player in your top squad back in the position you HAVE to or be over the second tier cap etc etc. This is because most 2nd tier players get game payments for playing 1st grade (normal contract conditions under NRL rules). Usually there's a bit of room to give a few some experience at some point during the seaso but rarely on a regular (or permanent) basis. Foran has to play in place of ata or mason & as johnson is still out due to injury he can play one of them but not both. He has NO CHOICE ffs. Same reason he can't keep playing CNK every week. Next year is a different matter if he has been elevated to the top squad. What part of all this don't some of you get? With injuries to forwards he has to play who's available from the top squad, not players from 2nd tier or the same thing happens. He;s brought up a couple when injury has forced it but can't keep doing it.
But hey, what you guys want is more important than what the rules allow & why spoil a good negative moan...

Thanks Cloudsurfer.
I didn't know that.

 

[JJ]

Not sure it's so severe that he's has to pick the same 13 each week and Ata and Lino have both been in the 17 do calling bullshit on Foran having to play

 

[jaseg]

(sigh) under the salary cup you get to bring players up to fill positions open due to injury with special dispensation under the salary cap. If you can play the player in your top squad back in the position you HAVE to or be over the second tier cap etc etc. This is because most 2nd tier players get game payments for playing 1st grade (normal contract conditions under NRL rules). Usually there's a bit of room to give a few some experience at some point during the seaso but rarely on a regular (or permanent) basis. Foran has to play in place of ata or mason & as johnson is still out due to injury he can play one of them but not both. He has NO CHOICE ffs. Same reason he can't keep playing CNK every week. Next year is a different matter if he has been elevated to the top squad. What part of all this don't some of you get? With injuries to forwards he has to play who's available from the top squad, not players from 2nd tier or the same thing happens. He;s brought up a couple when injury has forced it but can't keep doing it.
But hey, what you guys want is more important than what the rules allow & why spoil a good negative moan...

If you're going to go in with "What part of all this don't some of you get?", you'd best not miss. You missed. (at least, you weren't totally right )

Firstly, that is assuming that your first tier cap is not just filled with players, but maxed out in $$ too - a possibility, but not a certainty. The number added in is based on game/weekly payment for that week and not their total salary. Most 2nd tier guys will be fairly low so if there is any space (and there clearly is, given certain other players playing games - Satae, Bell, Papalii etc) they won't be taking up too much room.

Secondly - and more importantly - it doesn't actually apply this week. Why? Because neither team can make the finals. NRL been giving these exemptions for 2-3 years now.

 

[Cold Roses]

Thought this would be more common knowledge around here. I've mentioned a few times that we've already used 30 players this year which is up there in terms of what you are allowed. What Cloudsurfer says is pretty much the case, but no offence to him, prob not quite as succinct as others (Jaseg maybe?) have described it in the past. Penrith had problems with this a few years back when the had to ask for special dispensation from the NRL because of their high injury toll.

 

[Cold Roses]

And just on cue, as I'm writing, Jaseg gets in with the facts.

 

[Cold Roses]

If you're going to go in with "What part of all this don't some of you get?", you'd best not miss. You missed. (at least, you weren't totally right )

Firstly, that is assuming that your first tier cap is not just filled with players, but maxed out in $$ too - a possibility, but not a certainty. The number added in is based on game/weekly payment for that week and not their total salary. Most 2nd tier guys will be fairly low so if there is any space (and there clearly is, given certain other players playing games - Satae, Bell, Papalii etc) they won't be taking up too much room.

Secondly - and more importantly - it doesn't actually apply this week. Why? Because neither team can make the finals. NRL been giving these exemptions for 2-3 years now.

Second tier cap as far as I've been able to work out is about $400,000 each year? Correct me if I'm wrong Jaseg. Given that we've already used 5 players over the first grade squad size, I would assume that although we have some room to move still, it wouldn't be enough for the wholesale changes that some would suggest should happen? Again, you seem to be more on the money with the exact rules.

 

[Cold Roses]

Secondly - and more importantly - it doesn't actually apply this week. Why? Because neither team can make the finals. NRL been giving these exemptions for 2-3 years now.

Can you clarify this part? Does the second tier cap not apply once you are out of contention?

 

[jaseg]

Thought this would be more common knowledge around here. I've mentioned a few times that we've already used 30 players this year which is up there in terms of what you are allowed. What Cloudsurfer says is pretty much the case, but no offence to him, prob not quite as succinct as others (Jaseg maybe?) have described it in the past. Penrith had problems with this a few years back when the had to ask for special dispensation from the NRL because of their high injury toll.

TBF Cloudsurfer is something like 99% right (in situations that aren't this week, since NRL have been giving blanket exceptions in these situations to allow clubs like the Tigers to keep blooding new players - specific example of Liddle last year I think) - it's a 25 player 1st tier, next year that expands to 30 players.

Need to also take into account that 30 player number includes guys released early (Manu, Lolohea, and to a lesser degree Clark) which frees up both $$ and 1st tier spots. Neither of the players we brought in mid-season were 1st tier or have played NRL.

 

[jaseg]

Can you clarify this part? Does the second tier cap not apply once you are out of contention?

Basically clubs need to apply to the NRL to get permission to ignore 2nd tier cap pressure, usually that's only given when injury hits a particular position. But over the last few years the NRL have given exceptions even without the injury excuse when both teams playing cannot make the finals, so teams like the Tigers could play Liddle over Farah, for example - I believe this was applied for, granted but then Liddle injured himself or something? The exact details elude me right now..

 

[Cold Roses]

TBF Cloudsurfer is something like 99% right (in situations that aren't this week, since NRL have been giving blanket exceptions in these situations to allow clubs like the Tigers to keep blooding new players - specific example of Liddle last year I think) - it's a 25 player 1st tier, next year that expands to 30 players.

So do they just make the decision that once you are mathematically no chance it's a free for all with blooding youngsters? Surely that has the possibility to be contentious at some point. Eg Tigers* blood some young guys who win 3 games in a row and cost a couple of higher teams a finals spot?

* Note I'm not that stupid that I'd use the Warriors in this example

 

[Cold Roses]

Need to also take into account that 30 player number includes guys released early (Manu, Lolohea, and to a lesser degree Clark) which frees up both $$ and 1st tier spots. Neither of the players we brought in mid-season were 1st tier or have played NRL.

I'd always assumed that guys like Manu and LoLo would still count. They've played in first grade and count towards our cap for this year don't they?

 

[jaseg]

So do they just make the decision that once you are mathematically no chance it's a free for all with blooding youngsters? Surely that has the possibility to be contentious at some point. Eg Tigers* blood some young guys who win 3 games in a row and cost a couple of higher teams a finals spot?

* Note I'm not that stupid that I'd use the Warriors in this example

Can only be used when BOTH teams in the game can't make the finals - so it can't have an effect on the top 8, short of some late season point deduction madness lol

 

[Cold Roses]

Basically clubs need to apply to the NRL to get permission to ignore 2nd tier cap pressure, usually that's only given when injury hits a particular position. But over the last few years the NRL have given exceptions even without the injury excuse when both teams playing cannot make the finals, so teams like the Tigers could play Liddle over Farah, for example - I believe this was applied for, granted but then Liddle injured himself or something? The exact details elude me right now..

Ok sure. Much like the Penrith example I gave earlier which prompted Gould to go off his block and complain. They still need to apply though don't they? It's not like they can just swap first and second grades without ramifications?

 

[Cloudsurfer]

If you're going to go in with "What part of all this don't some of you get?", you'd best not miss. You missed. (at least, you weren't totally right )

Firstly, that is assuming that your first tier cap is not just filled with players, but maxed out in $$ too - a possibility, but not a certainty. The number added in is based on game/weekly payment for that week and not their total salary. Most 2nd tier guys will be fairly low so if there is any space (and there clearly is, given certain other players playing games - Satae, Bell, Papalii etc) they won't be taking up too much room.

Secondly - and more importantly - it doesn't actually apply this week. Why? Because neither team can make the finals. NRL been giving these exemptions for 2-3 years now.

I might not be entirely correct but I do know that it doesn't matter whether you are top of the table or bottom - no exceptions. They might give exemptions but have a look at teams deemed to be over their 2nd tier cap each year...a one-off might not matter but usually its noted & fines are incurred if it happens too often.
But you're right, I don't know where the warriors cap is atm but they have played a lot of players this season (btw i still believe its not Kearneys fault they've been mostly crap lol) but you have really good points. Although we're not privvy to what respective players contracts have in them re game payments generally its between $1K to $3K per game...it adds up. Unfortunately Foran is expensive as are a few others...I really don't think there's been much room to move. really, really hoping its sorted for next year (ever hopeful)

 

[jaseg]

I'd always assumed that guys like Manu and LoLo would still count. They've played in first grade and count towards our cap for this year don't they?

The salaries would only count as far as what we've paid them this year - plus if we're kicking anything in for Manu, that counts on top of what we already paid him while he was here... but everything else is freed up.

So let's say Manu played exactly half his contract year, which was worth $600k (no idea what it really was, just a hypothetical). Then we paid him $300k while he was here, and say we're also kicking in another $100k this year, that means $400k goes against the cap from his contract. $200k saved from the cap to use as we please - $40k of which (minimum) is automatically taken by his replacement (Faraimo, based on $80k minimum contract, half a year = $40k) - likely more than this, depending on who we elevate into the top squad (likely an existing player we want to use more often than Faraimo, who is 7 or 8 in line for our 1-5 positions). It's a little more complex than this but I think that's enough for now.

Ok sure. Much like the Penrith example I gave earlier which prompted Gould to go off his block and complain. They still need to apply though don't they? It's not like they can just swap first and second grades without ramifications?

Yeah, they need to apply - but the NRL has created the precedent when both teams are out of the finals. Not sure which year this Penrith thing was, but if they were mathematically a chance to play finals (or their opponents that week were) then they'd only get an exemption if there was no way of avoiding going over short of naming an injured/unavailable player or playing someone significantly out of position (a forward in the halves, prop in centres etc)

 

[Cold Roses]

It's a little more complex than this but I think that's enough for now.

More complex than this? No thanks, I'm good

 

[jaseg]

I might not be entirely correct but I do know that it doesn't matter whether you are top of the table or bottom - no exceptions.

This is just incorrect mate - if both teams are out of finals contention, the NRL has been happy to give exceptions.

Kearney's a different debate, I won't go there