What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

The 2022 World Cup may not take place in Qatar

RoosTah

Juniors
Messages
2,257
Born in Australia, as were my grandparents

And union is a game for private school boys when they're not rowing

Union is a private school strong-hold for sure, but I went to a public school that played union, whilst the Catholic private school up the road played League and in terms of representation Union is about 50% public over all anyway (which is quite distinct from the situation in Britain).

As you say, generalisations have their problems.

As for rowing - it's an awesome sport if you can commit to 4am wake-ups and find a decent club that isn't too posh (won't even need to fork out for a boat).

Surprised you have a problem with either of those things though - your political heroes tend to have had that sort of pedigree after all.
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
150,959
I went to a private school in Sydney, Union was a forbidden word.

If we won a League final, we got a holiday, it was that important to our school.
 

Big Sam

First Grade
Messages
8,976
A lot Craig given every major league in the world and broadcasters such as Fox in the States will all want compo.

Ridiculous decision. April was perfect timing and weather but you know it's Ramadan and Fifa respects that group. Women, gays, and Jews on the other hand...
 

Haffa

Guest
Messages
15,942
Does it really matter with 7 years notice?

The decision was wrong but it's been made, might as well work with them to line up the best time to hold the event.
 

Haffa

Guest
Messages
15,942
The FIFA Board need to go though. Only 4.5 yrs after vote taken their report that summer Qatar would be risky is taken seriously. Mind boggles

Put George Weah in charge.
 

Valheru

Coach
Messages
17,633
To be honest I don’t know what the big fuss is about. I get the whole “bid was for a June timeframe” and the suspected bribes which I think are a disgrace but in general, why is a November comp a bad thing?

The Bundesliga seems to cope with a 6 week break every holiday season, the other comps can too.
 

Big Sam

First Grade
Messages
8,976
To be honest I don’t know what the big fuss is about.

1. You're tampering with 92 years of history just to suit the most corrupt WC of all time.

2. It directly impacts over 50 leagues.

3. This has a knock-on effect. The 2019-20, 2020-2021, and 2021-22 seasons will all have to shift slightly from the usual August to May calendar. Expect all the major finals to occur in April those seasons.
 

thorson1987

Coach
Messages
16,907
B-mYg6mWoAAvuzk.jpg:large
 

Valheru

Coach
Messages
17,633
1. You're tampering with 92 years of history just to suit the most corrupt WC of all time.

2. It directly impacts over 50 leagues.

3. This has a knock-on effect. The 2019-20, 2020-2021, and 2021-22 seasons will all have to shift slightly from the usual August to May calendar. Expect all the major finals to occur in April those seasons.



As I said I get the corruption stuff but that aside the clubs can just deal with the odd calendar change.

Is the world game going to exclude Middle Eastern countries from hosting the world cup because the weather isn?t ideal in June/July? Every other major sporting tournament has no problem catering to the hosts conditions.

Maybe I am ignorant of how the leagues work but I can?t see why previous seasons would be affected? Start the 22/23 season slightly earlier, play a couple more mid week games and maybe finish it a week later. The players won?t get as big a break in the 2022 offseason but get over it.
 
Messages
13,942
As I said I get the corruption stuff but that aside the clubs can just deal with the odd calendar change.

Is the world game going to exclude Middle Eastern countries from hosting the world cup because the weather isn’t ideal in June/July? Every other major sporting tournament has no problem catering to the hosts conditions.

Maybe I am ignorant of how the leagues work but I can’t see why previous seasons would be affected? Start the 22/23 season slightly earlier, play a couple more mid week games and maybe finish it a week later. The players won’t get as big a break in the 2022 offseason but get over it.

Not every league has a Christmas/New Year break. As such it will mean that stopping all leagues at the time to accommodate the change of the World Cup, which means those leagues effected will finish later than they usually do. I mean for example, the EPL runs from Mid-August to late-May the following year with 38 games spread out allowing for breaks for international football and cup football. How can you postpone 2 months of that comp and then resume it without it effecting the following season also, you only have around 10 weeks between seasons which there are mandatory holiday periods for players, then pre-season and pre-season international football usually takes place?

It just beggars the mind that anyone could think it won't have drastic effects on all domestic leagues that are playing at that time of year. It is a logistical nightmare and none of the leagues should accommodate Blatter and co for their crap decisions.

Further you mention mid-week games? I mean seriously? Have a look at some football teams schedules. If they are involved in cup competitions (e.g. UEFA Champions League, FA Cup etc), many teams are already playing 2-3 games per week by this stage of the season. Hell in the UK, look at the December-January period when it is not uncommon that teams in the English Premier League teams will play 3 games between the period of Christmas Eve and just after New Year's.
 
Last edited:

BunniesMan

Immortal
Messages
33,688
4 games in 10-11 days happens. It leads to more stars breaking down with injuries which hurts the fans.

But there would be less disruption to the seasons if for the 2022-23 season is played without international breaks. They're boring and pointless and the time would help make up for some of the world cup.
 

Big Sam

First Grade
Messages
8,976
Expect the FFA to start legal proceedings against FIFA now. Or seek compensation. The bid condition under which all 5 countries bid was for June/July - you can't change the rules after the decision.

If we could have held the WC in November/December when all spirting codes would have been in support of it, things may have panned out differently.
 

Valheru

Coach
Messages
17,633
Not every league has a Christmas/New Year break. As such it will mean that stopping all leagues at the time to accommodate the change of the World Cup, which means those leagues effected will finish later than they usually do. I mean for example, the EPL runs from Mid-August to late-May the following year with 38 games spread out allowing for breaks for international football and cup football. How can you postpone 2 months of that comp and then resume it without it effecting the following season also, you only have around 10 weeks between seasons which there are mandatory holiday periods for players, then pre-season and pre-season international football usually takes place?

It just beggars the mind that anyone could think it won't have drastic effects on all domestic leagues that are playing at that time of year. It is a logistical nightmare and none of the leagues should accommodate Blatter and co for their crap decisions.

Further you mention mid-week games? I mean seriously? Have a look at some football teams schedules. If they are involved in cup competitions (e.g. UEFA Champions League, FA Cup etc), many teams are already playing 2-3 games per week by this stage of the season. Hell in the UK, look at the December-January period when it is not uncommon that teams in the English Premier League teams will play 3 games between the period of Christmas Eve and just after New Year's.



Ok so maybe the following season would be slightly affected as well, I still can?t see how the previous 2 seasons would be affected. If Germany, with 34 games per team including International breaks, cup breaks and Champions league etc. can have a 6 week break then I fail to see why the other leagues can?t as a one off. The German teams must have a heavy itinerary pre or post Christmas. Yes the EPL plays 4 more league games so start 1 week early, finish 1 week late and 2 more mid week games.

Champions league is probably the most adversely affected with the traditional dates of matchdays 4,5 and 6 in Nov/December but they have up until mid Feb off so no reason why they can?t use the 6 weeks after new year as a one off for that. As for the players break, ordinarily they would have a 4 week world cup in the June/July window i.e. no real break, on this occasion they would get a full 10 weeks (9 if they start the league early).

The real issue with all this is the fact that every country was told to submit a bid for June/July and they are changing after the process.
 
Messages
13,942
Ok so maybe the following season would be slightly affected as well, I still can’t see how the previous 2 seasons would be affected. If Germany, with 34 games per team including International breaks, cup breaks and Champions league etc. can have a 6 week break then I fail to see why the other leagues can’t as a one off. The German teams must have a heavy itinerary pre or post Christmas. Yes the EPL plays 4 more league games so start 1 week early, finish 1 week late and 2 more mid week games.

Champions league is probably the most adversely affected with the traditional dates of matchdays 4,5 and 6 in Nov/December but they have up until mid Feb off so no reason why they can’t use the 6 weeks after new year as a one off for that. As for the players break, ordinarily they would have a 4 week world cup in the June/July window i.e. no real break, on this occasion they would get a full 10 weeks (9 if they start the league early).

The real issue with all this is the fact that every country was told to submit a bid for June/July and they are changing after the process.

The following article by Gabriel Marcotti on ESPN FC lays out the problems in very clear detail -

By Gabriele Marcotti
16 hours ago
FIFA's winter World Cup should not be played in November-December


It's like one of those slow-motion car crash sequences in a 1970s movie. You see the tractor-trailer spinning out of control, and you know what's going to happen next.

Qatar's decision to bid for the 2022 World Cup has led -- indirectly in some cases -- to an absurd sequence of events, each precipitated by the one before, each to some degree both predictable and unavoidable.

A Qatari bid, with all that it implied, magnified a process that was already murky and dubious -- bidding to host a World Cup -- and eventually led to FIFA executive committee members being banned for life amid allegations of corruption and huge transfers of cash. It might have happened without the Qataris, but their presence unquestionably raised the stakes and the scale of money involved. It also led to the Garcia report, the subsequent whitewashing and then the investigation into improprieties from which nobody -- except for the Belgium-Holland bid -- emerged with any credit.

After initially ignoring FIFA's own viability reports, everyone realized that staging the tournament in summer, as contractually agreed, was folly. Even with the proposed cooling technologies, unless they got a weather machine or encased the country in a bio-dome, it was simply going to be dangerous, for players and for fans. So the FIFA machine had no choice but to switch from the traditional June-July World Cup to one played during a cooler time of the year.

That likely led to what we witnessed two weeks ago: The world's most valuable rights (U.S. Spanish-language broadcast) and second-most valuable (U.S. English-language broadcast) being "extended" and handed to a broadcaster for an unspecified sum, without an auction process. You can't say for sure, but this sort of murkiness smacks of compensation to avoid litigation. And it likely means FIFA -- and by extension its 209 member nations -- left a lot of money on the table.

There were three options for the tournament's new schedule, and FIFA are leaning heavily toward November-December 2022 (though that needs to be ratified by the body's executive committee next month). The others were January-February 2022, but that was vetoed because it clashes with the Winter Olympics (more of this in a bit) and May-June 2022 (the solution preferred by the big European leagues).

Continuing with the car crash theme, November-December 2022 presents a severe disruption to the Premier League, Bundesliga and others. So much so that Karl-Heinz Rummenigge, head of the European Clubs Association (ECA) -- the body that represents the interests of European clubs -- has already talked about demanding compensation from FIFA. It's not just the big six-week hole in their TV scheduling and rejiggering of fixture lists; there's also a knock-on effect for future seasons and a financial loss.

FIFA general secretary Jerome Valcke, never one to mince words, fired back on Wednesday. "There will be no compensation," he said. "There are seven years to reorganize. It's not perfect, we know that ... but why are we talking about compensation? It's happening once -- we're not destroying football."

This opens up yet another hugely thorny issue. Ever wonder why clubs have to release players to FIFA for internationals?

Well, it's governed by something called a "memorandum of understanding" (European clubs signed one with UEFA in 2012, and it runs through 2018). It covers issues such as insurance, the FIFA calendar and revenue distribution. Theoretically -- and not so theoretically -- clubs could simply refuse to agree to a new one that covers 2022. Then what? Then there would be absolute chaos, and we'd be far into uncharted waters, possibly with Mr. Kurtz hanging in the background.

All of this is a further knock-on from the Qatari bid. With FIFA and the stakeholders stuck knee-deep in an ocean of horse dung and mutant worms, this is one more mess they'll need to clean up.

But back to the dates. What's hard to understand is this fixation on November-December, when both January-February and May-June seem more reasonable.

The counterarguments seem flimsy. ECA and the European Professional Football Leagues (EPFL) have suggested ending the season early and running the World Cup from May 5 to June 4. I'm no meteorologist, but the temperatures seem marginally cooler than June and, crucially, no hotter than in some of the venues of the 1994 World Cup in the U.S. (The original proposal, ending the season way early and playing from mid-April to mid-May would have made more sense meteorologically, but is unworkable due to Ramadan, which runs from April 3 to May 3.)

Such an arrangement would obviously work better for rights-holders, especially in the U.S. (no college football and no NFL to worry about). But the word from FIFA is that temperatures would still be too high. This is a bit funny, as Major League Soccer plays in August in places like Houston and Dallas, where it's hotter than Doha in May.

January-February 2022, the option championed by UEFA, was ruled out early. It was done FIFA-style, in a way that was neither transparent nor logical, but with five of the six confederations ruling it out. Ostensibly, it's because playing in January-February 2022 would present a clash with the Winter Olympics, which are scheduled to run from Feb. 4 to Feb. 20, 2022, in either Almaty, Kazakhstan, or Beijing.

Now, the International Olympic Committee hasn't even determined a host yet. There is no reason they could not be shifted, say, three weeks, and run from February 25 to March 13, apart from not wanting to upset the IOC. The World Cup could then run from, say, January 21 to February 20. Those nations, like England, who insist on playing on Boxing Day and New Year's Day could still release players on January 2, and you'd have at least 19 days to acclimate. That's more time than you'd have under the November-December proposal. Everybody else would have even more time.

Yes, I know, the blue bloods who make up the IOC (and I do mean blue bloods: count the number of princes, princesses, sheikhs and barons on the list; I put it at around 10 percent) might be inconvenienced. But guess what? When it comes to global reach and interest, the Winter Olympics aren't even in the same galaxy as the World Cup. How about a bit of give and take? FIFA, after all, happily release professionals to play in the Summer Olympics. What if they used it as a bargaining chip?

What's more, among the 102 IOC members, you'll find folks like Issa Hayatou, head of CAF and a FIFA executive committee member, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani (who is only the emir of Qatar and might have an interest in as little controversy as possible surrounding his World Cup), Lydia Nsekera (who also happens to sit on FIFA's executive committee), Franco Carraro (former head of the Italian FA and former UEFA executive committee member), Prince Albert of Monaco (patron of AS Monaco) and, of course, one Sepp Blatter himself. You would expect that some of these people would go to bat for football and do their best to persuade the IOC to adjust their precious schedule. But no. Apparently FIFA have a gentleman's agreement with the IOC.

If you really, really, really don't want to upset Baron Pierre-Olivier Beckers-Vieujant or Princes Norberta of Liechtenstein, Countess of Rieberg, Dowager Marquesa de Marino (no, I'm not making it up, these are some of the sort of people on the IOC), why not switch the whole shebang to 2023? Yeah, that's right. Have the 2022 World Cup in 2023. You may be creating the answer to a trivia question, but so what? Folks could handle it. That was UEFA's second-choice, after January-February 2022.

Nope. The line from FIFA is that it can't be done for "branding" and "legal reasons." Legal reasons? LEGAL REASONS? What might those be? And to what law does FIFA answer? No point asking. They won't answer either question. There's still time for a semi-sensible solution. Without the executive committee's approval next month, November-December isn't cast in stone. Call me naive, but I'm still hoping saner heads will prevail, and that the next seven years won't all be about lawsuits and bickering over compensation.

FIFA really don't have the upper hand in this, the clubs do.
 

Big Sam

First Grade
Messages
8,976
Read a rumour saying the PL and BL might still continue during the World Cup (still releasing qualified players to the tournament). The idea being that even with temporarily lower quality teams, they'd still steal enough interest and ratings to damage the WC and FIFA.
 
Top