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The AFL show how it should be done again......

Sportsjock

Juniors
Messages
512
JK said:
but rather for agreeing to take a stand and cop it on the chin like real men.

A big pfft for your distinction rape vs sexual assault - pure pedantry.

As to the above and assuming that the actual names are known to police and club (it is all alleged at this stage) why should they have to take the bad publicity upon themselves?

Well to answer your question ( if common sense cant already answer it yourself ), to firstly show that they are confident they have nothing to concern themselves about, and secondly, so blokes like Steve Price and Hazem El Masri don't have to walk around the streets feeling like criminals.

If a team mate cannot take away that type of smear from those who are definitely not involved, what type of loyal team mates are they to the rest of the team?

If that isnt enough reason to be a stand up loyal man about it, then I have no idea what is...

And as for you believing that I am being pedantic over the meaning of Sexual assualt, as far as I see, there is a major difference between verbally saying something like " hey nice legs babe " ( which in todays world is now viewed as sexual assault if it is at an inappropriate time such as at work ), and belting up a female and forcing her into sexual intercourse ( rape ).

There is a wide spectrum of SEXUAL ASSAULT JK , and I am sorry, but I am not going to let you throw around the graphic word RAPE , when its SEXUAL ASSAULT.

If it comes out that there was raping involved, then by all means, but for now, it could be something extremely minor - in both the Bulldogs and St Kilda cases.

So lets go easy on the graphic use of that word hey?

I dont believe thats being pedantic.
 

JK

Guest
Messages
5,549
There is a wide spectrum of SEXUAL ASSAULT JK , and I am sorry, but I am not going to let you throw around the graphic word RAPE , when its SEXUAL ASSAULT.

You are not going to let me? Rightio Captain!

And you are being even more pedantic really - no one is accusing them of saying 'nice legs' are they? Hmmm....

The word RAPE (why the caps lock jock?) is defined as
1. The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse.
2. The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction.
3. Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice.

Hmmm, a pretty wide range. That covers the same range of acts as 'sexual assault' in its legal definition.

But thanks for being the moral guardian of the forum. I can now sleep safely at night.
 

JK

Guest
Messages
5,549
Now my turn to be pedantic.

If the players accused don't wish to have journalists in the bushes outside their house this is the best way to go. The accusation of SEXUAL ASSAULT is a major one and living up to some sort of definition of a 'real man' is just pathetic. They don't need to go through that to prove something to those who hold with these fairyland ideals.
 

The Engineers Room

First Grade
Messages
8,945
Are we all sure they were women and not men that were raped?

If they were women they must have been wearing business suits on a dark night.

Because this is AFL we are talking about.
 

JK

Guest
Messages
5,549
Surely there is no real need for an investigation into their sexual preferences is there?

Rape is rape
um..

SEXUAL ASSAULT is SEXUAL ASSAULT.
 

JK

Guest
Messages
5,549
AFL: Mile and Montagna both train today
Article Date Wednesday, March 17 2004 - 15:31

The two St Kilda AFL players under investigation over an alleged rape have trained with teammates at Moorabbin.
The allegation arose following an incident at a Melbourne bayside suburb house on Sunday night.
Detectives have interviewed the Saints' STEPHEN MILNE and LEIGH MONTAGNA but no charges have been laid.
Saints' coach GRANT THOMAS says the club decided the pair should train because they shouldn't be isolated from the other players.
He says MILNE and MONTAGNA have had a hellish time and are both extremely distressed.
AAP
 

Sportsjock

Juniors
Messages
512
JK said:
Surely there is no real need for an investigation into their sexual preferences is there?

Rape is rape
um..

SEXUAL ASSAULT is SEXUAL ASSAULT.

Oh JK, no doubt you're a Dogs fan.

I guess KISSING is KISSING too? :lol: You know there can't be varying levels of kissing or anything can there? Like a peck on the cheek, or a full blown tongue down the throat Merv Hughes Special! :lol: :lol:
When you kiss your aunty do you slip the tongue in because thats the more graphic meaning of the word?! :lol:

You seem to believe that there is the one level of what you classify as RAPE or what I classify as SEXUAL ASSAULT, that there is one level, and one level only and it all comes under the same banner of seriousness.

Like STEALING a grape, or STEALING $500,000 in an online scam :lol:

But lets go the whole hog and sensationalise it with worst case scenario type stuff hey?

We all are aware of what the allegations against the Bulldogs involved, while at the moment , the St Kilda guys nor investigators have expanded any information whatsoever to the media about what occured.

Yet you label it rape, which in my opinion, regardless of the dictionary meaning of the word, seems a tad harsh in its relevance to the topic at hand.

Get over the fact that the AFL have done the right thing, and your team have done the WRONG thing ( many many many wrong things ) , in the handling of their relevant scandals.

And that's the bottom line here and the entire point of this topic.
 

JK

Guest
Messages
5,549
Shame I use the dictionary meaning while you use your own.

Oh well 8)

And the bottom line, IMO, is that the AFL is seen to do the right thing only because they had to.

And as the story above shows they are both very distressed at the moment.
 

Sportsjock

Juniors
Messages
512
JK said:
And the bottom line, IMO, is that the AFL is seen to do the right thing only because they had to.

Now I know why your name on here is JK , because surely you are Just Kidding? :lol:

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
 

JK

Guest
Messages
5,549
Nice - 5 rolly faces just for me! Combined with the caps lock I can see that you feel a need to highlight your points. I realise your posts are long and boring but I still struggle through them just fine Mr Forum Captain.

Ch.7 released the wrong name and thus prompted the naming of the real players.
 

JK

Guest
Messages
5,549
St Kilda Football Club chief executive Brian Waldron said his organisation had decided to name the players involved in the alleged sexual assault because "it would have come out anyway".

Yay for AFL
So wonderful :roll:
 

zulu

Juniors
Messages
1,350
I betcha the AFL leanrt from the NRL mistakes. The AFL weren't so forthcoming with rape allegations in the past. Pay offs and the like.

Anyway, the two cases are totally different - one involves a just two players from a club in their own houses, while the other happened at a resort where the whole team were present -things are a little more hazy as a result.

The bottom line is, the AFL has alleged rapists in its ranks too - it is no better.
 

brook

First Grade
Messages
5,065
Sportsjock said:
JK said:
but rather for agreeing to take a stand and cop it on the chin like real men.

A big pfft for your distinction rape vs sexual assault - pure pedantry.

As to the above and assuming that the actual names are known to police and club (it is all alleged at this stage) why should they have to take the bad publicity upon themselves?

Well to answer your question ( if common sense cant already answer it yourself ), to firstly show that they are confident they have nothing to concern themselves about, and secondly, so blokes like Steve Price and Hazem El Masri don't have to walk around the streets feeling like criminals.

If a team mate cannot take away that type of smear from those who are definitely not involved, what type of loyal team mates are they to the rest of the team?

If that isnt enough reason to be a stand up loyal man about it, then I have no idea what is...

And as for you believing that I am being pedantic over the meaning of Sexual assualt, as far as I see, there is a major difference between verbally saying something like " hey nice legs babe " ( which in todays world is now viewed as sexual assault if it is at an inappropriate time such as at work ), and belting up a female and forcing her into sexual intercourse ( rape ).

There is a wide spectrum of SEXUAL ASSAULT JK , and I am sorry, but I am not going to let you throw around the graphic word RAPE , when its SEXUAL ASSAULT.

If it comes out that there was raping involved, then by all means, but for now, it could be something extremely minor - in both the Bulldogs and St Kilda cases.

So lets go easy on the graphic use of that word hey?

I dont believe thats being pedantic.

I was under the impression that sexual assult = rape

the other 'lesser' offences come under indecent assult

of course that could be just in nsw not victoria - I'm no lawyer
 

Fanny Batter

Juniors
Messages
174
Diehard said:
Fanny Batter said:
it looks as though the afl has shown us leagueies a thing or two on how to deal with a crisis.

when will we ever learn...........

Who is this blow in?

aaaaaand what's it to u? so what if i'm only new to the forums, doesn't mean I can't have my two bob's worth? Or does it?????
 

JK

Guest
Messages
5,549
A very sympathetic article for the players...

Yapper and the youngster - a study in contrasts
By Chris Lines
MELBOURNE, March 17 AAP - Stephen Milne has always been the type of AFL player who gets noticed. Leigh Montagna has not.
Linked together in rape allegations under investigation by Victorian police, Milne and Montagna are a study in contrasts.
In a time of uber-athletes populating AFL lists, 24-year-old Milne is a fish out of water - a short, shaggy-haired, long-sleeved, cheeky goalsneak.
He worked his way into the AFL the hard way and became a cult hero in the eyes of Saints fans, and an irritating villain among the opposition.
Montagna, 20, is of the same physical dimensions as Milne with a similar eye for goal, but is a more naturally-gifted yet anonymous type who could walk through the outer unrecognised.
Ironically, Montagna only got his breakthrough spell in the St Kilda side late last year because Milne had been exiled to the reserves.
Milne is a close friend of Adam Ramanauskas, Essendon's premiership wingman who missed most of last season after surgery to remove a cancerous growth from his neck.
The pair grew up together playing for Melbourne suburban club Noble Park and then Dandenong in the under-18 TAC Cup.
But while Ramanauskas was picked up in the first round of the 1998 draft, Milne was overlooked.
In an era when clubs were keen on adaptable athletes who were able to play all over the ground, Milne was an unpopular specimen - a specialist forward-pocket goalsneak.
Milne was resigned to playing with VFL club Frankston in 1999, but Ramanauskas continually pestered Essendon recruiting officer Adrian Dodoro to give his mate a chance.
Dodoro relented, asking Milne to play in a practice match against Carlton ahead of the 1999 season, and the youngster impressed by kicking three goals.
The Bombers were set to rookie list Milne but the club was banned from the draft for salary cap breaches.
He played through the year as a top-up player for the Essendon reserves, and starred in the seconds grand final win of 1999, kicking four goals.
Essendon again planned to pick him up in the rookie draft ahead of 2000, but St Kilda swooped with an earlier pick.
Milne was a standout in the St Kilda reserves during 2000, but the financially-stretched Saints could not afford to upgrade him to the senior list until early in the 2001 season.
Milne's talents now had a national stage, and he was a natural in the role of the stereotypical goalsneak, kicking goals hanging off the contest, celebrating extravagantly and mouthing off to opponents.
He possessed an undeniable skill, with his quick stepping and instinctive goal sense adding the dash of excitement that puts bums on seats.
But when his form faltered, such antics wore thin with some, and incoming coach Grant Thomas reportedly told Milne to shape up or ship out.
He took the ultimatum to heart, kicking 50 goals in 2002 and winning a trip to Ireland with the Australian team for the International Rules series.
Milne was alight early in 2003, leading the AFL goalkicking table with 16 goals in the first five games, but he was twice suspended for striking and his form tapered badly.
Milne soon found himself in the twos as the Saints clicked and hit top form late in the season, with Montagna acting as his replacement.
Previously a fringe dweller in the VFL, Montagna played the last eight games of 2003, kicking ten goals, and became a first-choice player as the Saints won five of their last seven games.
But Montagna is largely the forgotten man of St Kilda's youth revolution.
When talk of the Saints' riches of promise arises, it is the names of Nick Riewoldt, Justin Koschitzke, Nick Dal Santo, Brendon Goddard, Luke Ball and the Clarke brothers that crop up.
Montagna was recruited as a speedy goal-kicking wingman from Melbourne suburban club Balwyn via the Northern Knights TAC Cup team, drafted in the third round.
 

zulu

Juniors
Messages
1,350
Fanny Batter said:
Diehard said:
Fanny Batter said:
it looks as though the afl has shown us leagueies a thing or two on how to deal with a crisis.

when will we ever learn...........

Who is this blow in?

aaaaaand what's it to u? so what if i'm only new to the forums, doesn't mean I can't have my two bob's worth? Or does it?????

No peess off.
 

Le Rouge

Juniors
Messages
1,164
The way i see it . Naming the players involved in the scandal may have worked but channel 7 named an individual who was apparently not involved. Which is terrible for that player.

The only thing i have seen that the AFL have done better is have a formal press conference with the players dressed up better.

None the less the AFL have been hit hard now that they have seen that their code is not really squeeky clean, as the media has made them believe in the last few weeks. :)
 

JK

Guest
Messages
5,549
Players must be responsible for their behaviour - Ayres
Wednesday, March 17 2004 - 16:41

By Sam Lienert
ADELAIDE, March 17 AAP - AFL players received comprehensive guidance in how to behave off the field and had to take responsibility for their own actions, Adelaide coach Gary Ayres said today.
Ayres was commenting on allegations of sexual misconduct made against St Kilda players Stephen Milne and Leigh Montagna, and on a weekend drink-driving incident in which Adelaide goalsneak Ronnie Burns rolled his car.
"We're in a position where we make all these (educational programs) available, but it gets back to the simple line, how can you be with these players 24 hours a day, seven days a week?" Ayres said.
"It gets back to the position where you do as much as you can for the players.
"They're fully grown men.
"They make their own decisions and sometimes, as in Ronnie's case, it's an error of judgment that's made."
Crows chief executive Steven Trigg said all AFL players and officials were put through a comprehensive program on how to avoid being involved in sexual harassment or other misconduct.
"I've sat through it for four or five years and I'm telling you it's robust," Trigg said.
"It's spot-on, the bloke who delivers it is spot-on.
"They are fully briefed, the players, and then in the end you've got to somewhere say 'You're responsible for your own actions'."
Ayres said he did not believe sexual misconduct had been a part of AFL culture.
"I don't believe so," he said.
"I mean, I've been married for the last 23 years, but in my time, it's been 26 years (involvement in the AFL/VFL) and this is the first time I've ever heard of it."
Ayres also said players had to accept that being under public scrutiny was part of their job.
"It comes with the territory," he said.
"I coach the Adelaide footy club, of course I put the blazer on, I obviously want to promote the fact that I'm part of the Adelaide footy club and I'm an ambassador for that particular footy club.
"If you don't want to be that sort of person then don't put the blazer on."

Of particular note is
Ayres said he did not believe sexual misconduct had been a part of AFL culture.
"I don't believe so," he said.
"I mean, I've been married for the last 23 years, but in my time, it's been 26 years (involvement in the AFL/VFL) and this is the first time I've ever heard of it."

Hmmm, hear no evil, see no evil.
 
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