The 'how to improve the F7s' thread

[Willow]

The 'how to improve the F7s' thread and the F7s committee

Over the off-season, there will be temporary F7s committee who will mull over suggestions to improve the competition.

The F7s committee has no permanent membership. Once they have competed their tasks, the committee is disbanded for another year. The committee comprises of referees, captains and some senior players, so no nominations please. You can be assured that there will be wide representation within the committee and straight appointments is better than getting bogged down in an election process.

Initially, the committee was set up in 2004 to invite new teams into the competition (at the end of 2003, no committee was necessary). But as time went on, the committee was also deciding on proposed chnages to the rules and regulations. Some of these proposals were put forward by players.

This thread is where you can have a say in any changes you'd like to see.

Keep the suggestions precise and to the point.

If you have already made suggestion elsewhere, feel free to link to that thread or paste it here again.

The idea is that we have one thread to look at when the F7s committee gets happening over the off-season.

Cheers.

 

[Crusher]

1.
Bring back the KB Cup in the form of a F7's knockout comp - pre-season

Need 16 teams and its knockout for 5 weeks
Need 8 teams and it's knockout for 4 weeks

Captain selects 2 players per side. One player can only play 2 matches in the comp.
Essays would be 500 words and game lasts 7 days.

2.
Alternatively introduce a player vs player knockout comp. All individual players register their interest pre-season and then theres a knockout until there is a winner.

3.
If a team is short a player for whatever reason, a second essay can be entered by a current player scored out of a maximum of 70. This may stop results being a formailty

 

[Willow]

3.
If a team is short a player for whatever reason, a second essay can be entered by a current player scored out of a maximum of 70. This may stop results being a formailty

A very interesting proposal. Perhaps after a certain time? eg if a team is still a player short at 8pm (one hour before fulltime). It would need a special interchange name to make it clear to all observers.

Certainly worth discussing. I like the preseason comp suggestions as well.

 

[paulquinn49]

I still think the articles are marked up to make them competitve. A score of mid 80's should be for the really solid articles, not ones that are just submitted.

Realistic scoring I guess is my point, the worst articles around seem to start on a base score of 75.

 

[TiTTieS_[CNTDN]]

I still think the articles are marked up to make them competitve. A score of mid 80's should be for the really solid articles, not ones that are just submitted.

Realistic scoring I guess is my point, the worst articles around seem to start on a base score of 75.

Agreed, Quinny. It seems that most articles find themselves in the 75-95 range. This is partly why I started the thread about text types: http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=152926

 

[Crusher]

A very interesting proposal. Perhaps after a certain time? eg if a team is still a player short at 8pm (one hour before fulltime). It would need a special interchange name to make it clear to all observers.

Certainly worth discussing. I like the preseason comp suggestions as well.

Yes that sounds about right. Although I've only just stumbled across F7's I did notice many matches were over before they began due to teams being short. At least if you know this will happen the 'interchange' essay can be introduced to give you a fighting chance, even if only scored out of 70.

5 v 4 is a formality but 5 v 4.7 can still make a game of it.

 

[Crusher]

Something else you might consider during the season is having 'theme' weeks where essays submitted for that game are to have a particular theme.

Ie: Historical, rules, etc

 

[[furrycat]]

The marking has always been subject to criticism; but take a look at the last Pirates V Lions game. 3 posters got 0 and one got 50. Why? Because it had no league content and antonius was well within his right to do it.

 

[paulquinn49]

The marking has always been subject to criticism; but take a look at the last Pirates V Lions game. 3 posters got 0 and one got 50. Why? Because it had no league content and antonius was well within his right to do it.

I never said it didnt happen, but it rarely does. Whats that 3 out of say 100 articles to score under 75 all year. Everyone knows it, all 7's articles have a base score of around 70 -75 and work up.

btw I didnt like your tone dood. Uncool.

 

[[furrycat]]

I never said it didnt happen, but it rarely does. Whats that 3 out of say 100 articles to score under 75 all year. Everyone knows it, all 7's articles have a base score of around 70 -75 and work up.

btw I didnt like your tone dood. Uncool.

My tone?

There was no malice in my 'tone' whatsoever.

 

[Crusher]

A very interesting proposal. Perhaps after a certain time? eg if a team is still a player short at 8pm (one hour before fulltime). It would need a special interchange name to make it clear to all observers.

Certainly worth discussing. I like the preseason comp suggestions as well.

RESERVE ESSAYS AND INTERCHANGE POSSIBILITIES
Maybe with the 'interchange' we could have a reserve essay thread whereby if short 1hr before deadline you could drag out this essay written by a memeber of your squad.

Ie Souths are 1 short and its 8pm. The skipper can then ask permission to drag out the reserve essay written by someone who is either listed and unavailable or unlisted but in the squad. This would still be scored out of 70.
We'd need a season interchange limit also to avoid taking advantage.
By doing this we could ensure that all games have full compliments.

 

[antonius]

I never said it didnt happen, but it rarely does. Whats that 3 out of say 100 articles to score under 75 all year. Everyone knows it, all 7's articles have a base score of around 70 -75 and work up.

btw I didnt like your tone dood. Uncool.

I wasn't going to comment on this but I can't let your remark go unanswered so I will say this. As far as I'm concerned there is no base mark at all, so if "everyone knows it" then everyone is wrong. Articles get marked on their merits, nothing more, nothing less. I've said this a dozen times, read through half a dozen games and most articles on on a par with each other for one reason or another. Some articles stand out above the rest and are rewarded accordingly, some are below the norm and are marked accordingly. Occasionally articles are so bad they recieve well below your so called base mark. The fact is, as I said in the begining, 85-90% of the pieces submitted are very close to each other in terms of content, originality,spelling, grammar, and composition, so it stands to reason that most score around the same mark.

 

[Raider_69]

well said antonious, i dont see a single issue with the marking at present
im partial to the man down idea, where by at a certain time the captain can ellect a current player to make a 2nd post if needed. Would need more thought but its a good start.

individual pre season comp could be interesting too.
liking that idea

 

[antonius]

RESERVE ESSAYS AND INTERCHANGE POSSIBILITIES
Maybe with the 'interchange' we could have a reserve essay thread whereby if short 1hr before deadline you could drag out this essay written by a memeber of your squad.

Ie Souths are 1 short and its 8pm. The skipper can then ask permission to drag out the reserve essay written by someone who is either listed and unavailable or unlisted but in the squad. This would still be scored out of 70.
We'd need a season interchange limit also to avoid taking advantage.
By doing this we could ensure that all games have full compliments.

I don't think it would be quite as easy as you are saying. To have the essay approved you would need the opposing captain to be made aware of what was happening (difficult with only one hour before fulltime) you would also need the ref to be made aware (again difficult 1 hour before fulltime) The idea has merit, but I think more thought would be needed to be put into how it could be implemented without requiring people to be logged on watching threads for this possibilty. At the end of the day a commited team would ensure that five posters post, I don't see why provision should be made to make a better score possible for an uncommted team, and in the event it does happen, the possibilty that a team with five commited players all posting could lose to what is effectively a team with and extra poster.

 

[Crusher]

agree antonius, but sometimes even the most committed teams come across a situation whereby they may find themselves short at the last minute. Thats why I believe an interchange' situation may have merit.

It may be a case of the captain using the 'interchange' when the teams are announced to avoid the communication issue. At that point they can list who will be submitting the essay. The essay should still be scored a maximum 70 or so.

 

[Willow]

I think any idea which can create a 5v5 match can only improve the competition.

The only way the idea would work is if it was somehow etched into the rules. Seeking permission every time would make it messy.
Also, I don't think it would work if the extra interchange was made from the entire squad. IMO, it still has to come from the original 7 named.
All this is designed to lock it up into a well defined rule.

I agree with antonius regarding provision being made for less committed team. But if the extra interchange is only being marked out of 70, then the team is being penalised already. Therefore the incentive still remains for the team to be better organised.

 

[Crusher]

well said antonious, i dont see a single issue with the marking at present
im partial to the man down idea, where by at a certain time the captain can ellect a current player to make a 2nd post if needed. Would need more thought but its a good start.

individual pre season comp could be interesting too.
liking that idea

I'd love to be involved in a pre-season individual comp. Sort of like an 'open' tournament. You could even have seedings based on previous results to come up with an eventual champion.

The other benefit is it gets you into some sort of writing form for the regular season.

 

[Crusher]

I think any idea which can create a 5v5 match can only improve the competition.

The only way the idea would work is if it was somehow etched into the rules. Seeking permission every time would make it messy.
Also, I don't think it would work if the extra interchange was made from the entire squad. IMO, it still has to come from the original 7 named.
All this is designed to lock it up into a well defined rule.

I agree with antonius regarding provision being made for less committed team. But if the extra interchange is only being marked out of 70, then the team is being penalised already. Therefore the incentive still remains for the team to be better organised.

Perfect summary of my jumbled idea. The interchange essay would still penalise the team however still make it a contest rather than a foregone conclusion. There's not fun in winning by default.

 

[Crusher]

HERES SOME SAMPLE WORDING FOR AN INTERCHANGE RULE
Interchange Rule 1.1
A team shall be permitted one interchange essay per match in the event of being a player short. This will allow a selected player to submit a second essay for the match. This essay wil be scored out of a maximum 70 points. The 'interchange' player must be nominated at the point of team selection.

 

[antonius]

I think any idea which can create a 5v5 match can only improve the competition.

The only way the idea would work is if it was somehow etched into the rules. Seeking permission every time would make it messy.
Also, I don't think it would work if the extra interchange was made from the entire squad. IMO, it still has to come from the original 7 named.
All this is designed to lock it up into a well defined rule.

I agree with antonius regarding provision being made for less committed team. But if the extra interchange is only being marked out of 70, then the team is being penalised already. Therefore the incentive still remains for the team to be better organised.

I can see where you're coming from, but at the end of the day it would still not be a five v five in the real sense. Yes it would still probably result in the team with 4 +1 being the loser, though the posibilty is there that the true five man team could lose. The argument of last minute mishaps is already adiquately covered with the use of reserves, and the last posts forum, and posting by proxy. At the moment teams have 7 posters and in the case of the home team eight posters, that's more than enough surely to get 5 posts in on time. It would also be open to manipulation, you can bet that the provisional poster will always be the poster with the best record in regards to scores.