The Ultimate Islam Thread

Discussion in 'Four Corners' started by millersnose, Jul 26, 2016.

  1. t-ba

    t-ba Coach

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    Why would Israel level its BFF Saudi Arabia?
     
  2. magpie4ever

    magpie4ever First Grade

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    I think you know my opinion on the Iranian dictators. They are the financiers of Shiite terrorists as the Saudis are to Sunni terrorists - both murderous hate filled terrorists.
     
  3. t-ba

    t-ba Coach

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    Saudi Arabia and Israel are mates. Why would they hurt a mate?
     
  4. sandshark

    sandshark Juniors

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    Israel is everyone's mate if it gifts them influence and currency.
     
  5. gUt

    gUt Coach

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    What compels a person to want to sacrifice themselves and their families, as well as murder innocent people? Belief. Belief that this world is temporary and the greatest good one can do is to sacrifice themselves for god, because they'll get rewarded in the next life.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-30/women-terrorists-in-indonesia/9811152

    The role women played in Indonesia's first whole-family suicide bombings, and what to do next

    That parents could use their children to carry out suicide bombings, as happened in Indonesia earlier this month, is difficult to comprehend.

    In the archipelago, it's an unprecedented terror tactic.

    It's believed the family acting in Surabaya belonged to a cell of the Islamic State-inspired group Jemaah Ansharut Daulah.

    Two possible reasons for the attacks are ISIS propaganda and an increased number of extremist women in Indonesia.

    Whatever the causes, at least one expert says there is a clear need for new de-radicalisation methods in the country.

    [​IMG]

    The ISIS approach
    The whole-family attacks distinguish ISIS from terrorist organisation Al-Qaeda, which attracted single men to combat.

    "It's incomprehensible for us. Even for the Jemaah Islamiyah (JI) generation," said Nava Nuraniyah, an analyst at the Institute for Policy Analysis of Conflict in Jakarta who consults on government deradicalisation programs.

    "Ex-JIs couldn't believe that ISIS use children.

    "Since ISIS came about, their dream has been to migrate as whole families to the caliphate [Islamic state] land."

    But not everyone who wants to is able to migrate.

    "For those who are stuck in Indonesia, they still had the same dream, and maybe [the families' suicide bombing] was their way of going to a better place together as a whole family," Ms Nuraniyah said.

    Extremism on the rise among Indonesian women
    The Surabaya terrorist attack could not have happened "without the willingness of the women themselves", Ms Nuraniyah said, which highlights another of ISIS's points of difference.

    "JI actively stopped women who were so eager to participate in combat.

    "They were a traditional hierarchical organisation and only men could pledge allegiance, because they thought the main role of women is to become mothers of future jihadists.

    "To them, it's just not strategic to get women involved in war, in combat, because that would decrease your chance of having more children.

    "Whereas with ISIS, one big difference is that you've got a lot more women from Europe, America, even Australia, very active as propagandists on social media."

    These foreign propagandists became role models for Indonesian women.

    "They [said], if these women can do that then so can we — and they did it in 2016."

    That was the year Indonesia saw its first would-be female suicide bomber, Dian Yulia Novi, whose plans to blow herself up at the Presidential Palace in Jakarta were thwarted by Indonesian police.

    Women promised redemption
    The idea of redemption is another factor behind women's radicalisation, and was a motivation for Dian's bombing attempt.

    "She believed her father had committed a sin...so that was her way of helping her father," Ms Nuraniyah said.

    "She was told that if you commit suicide bombing in the name of God then you can save 70 members of your family."

    Another suicide bomber, Ika Puspitasari, was seeking redemption for alcoholism, but had other reasons, too.

    "She used to give [ISIS] money as part of her 'financial jihad', as they say.

    "But because she lost her job...she offered herself, because she could no longer give money for the jihad."

    Belief in Armageddon
    ISIS promotes the idea of a world's end, coinciding with the coming of the Messiah, both said to take place in Syria.

    Indonesians drawn to Syria, therefore, "intended to die there and not to come back", said Ms Nuraniyah.

    "They want to be part of that end-of-the-world, Armageddon part of history — and they want their children there too."

    ISIS uses social media to spread this Armageddon message, as well as to promote the benefits of migrating to Syria.

    Ummu Sabrina, who wrote a blog about her experience of migrating from Indonesia to Syria with her husband and children, described arriving in Syria to be met with a new apartment and free groceries, healthcare and education for her children.

    Ms Nuraniyah said benefits such as these were an important attraction for women.

    "That image of a state that will provide you welfare as well — it's not just for the men to fight."

    How to de-radicalise a family?
    Ms Nuraniyah said there is no one common reason for radicalisation, which makes an effective de-radicalisation program hard to achieve.

    "Our de-radicalisation program usually refers to the program in prison for terrorist inmates, not preventative ones."

    In Indonesia, in-prison programs are successful and the rate of recidivism is low, she said.

    "But obviously that's not the only measurement."

    Ms Nuraniya said Indonesia lacks a program to address the whole family.

    "In the past when the police tried to de-radicalise the men sometimes they tried to use the women, give them some kind of financial aid to survive so that they could pressure their husbands to cooperate," she said.

    "But you can't do that if the whole family is getting radicalised now. We have no experience in that."

    She says mentoring, which has been a useful strategy with terrorist inmates, could be prove useful.

    The mentor would preferably be a former-jihadi, but that's not essential — what's important is that it is someone experienced in how to handle radicalised people, Islamic or otherwise.

    "You need dedicated social workers who are trained in this mentoring program.

    "You can't just go straight to debating the religious dogma. It's mainly about building trust — help them reintegrate into society, get a new job.

    Deportees could provide clues
    Between 2013 and 2017, 500 Indonesians were deported from Turkey trying to cross the border into Syria.

    Of that group, a huge number — 60 per cent — were women and children.

    On returning to Indonesia, the primary concern of deportees is rebuilding their lives.

    Before trying to migrate to Syria they often sell everything they own and return with nothing, Ms Nuraniyah said.

    "First they need an ID card and then they need to get a job. They need a school that would accept their children without stigmatisation. So just all those basic needs first."

    Ms Nuraniyah says it is essential that deportees and their families are better tracked and that women deportees, particularly, are focused on more by government.

    That group could be examined, she said, to explore why they wanted to leave as a whole family and also what they expected to do in Syria.

    "There isn't an easy answer... for now we just do as much as we can and see [what] works.

    "It's still at that experiment, trial and error phase I think for us now."
     
  6. age.s

    age.s Bench

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    Nah it was probably the geopolitics of the Middle East bro.
     
    saint.nick likes this.
  7. Bandwagon

    Bandwagon Moderator Staff Member

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    Umm, because this isn't coming from the middle east?
     
  8. Smack

    Smack First Grade

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  9. Tommy Smith

    Tommy Smith Coach

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    Islamist terrorism is now such a part of week to week life in Europe that acts of terrorism barely receive more than a day or two of attention in the media; unless it's a major attack.

    It's the equivalent of school shootings in the USA.

    Another ISIS inspired merkin in the UK is about to be sentenced for plotting terror attacks and encouraging others to kill Prince George... encouraging people to murder a 4yr old boy.

    But I suppose we're now numb to this...
     
  10. Surely

    Surely Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes because we make them sell cheap chocolate and steal their oil or some shit
     
  11. Smack

    Smack First Grade

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    It's everybody else fault that they are violent lunatics
     
  12. t-ba

    t-ba Coach

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    Not satisfied with misrepresenting an argument in one thread, Surely bravely continues the misrepresentation elsewhere!
     
  13. 2_Smoking_Guns

    2_Smoking_Guns First Grade

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    You offended the capitalist ideologue. You're just lucky b-dos is no longer with us or you would be severely beaten with misrepresentations and strawmen before being resoundingly declared the loser. Mind you the wrath of Surely, Jimbo, Smack, mave and Danish will be no picnic either, but they ain't no action man.
     
  14. Pete Cash

    Pete Cash Immortal

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    buying oil directly funds Islamic extremism. Our governments have encouraged Saudi to spread wahhabist islam through the developing world because of cold war politics.

    but hey they have a cool orb
     
  15. gUt

    gUt Coach

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    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-...s-of-how-australians-become-jihadists/9917094
    'Social media creates terrorists' and other myths of Australian jihadists debunked

    A desire to understand how Australians become radicalised has created some popular ideas about the creation of jihadists that are misleading or completely incorrect, a leading expert on terror networks has warned.

    At the heart of this misunderstanding is the idea that terrorists can be created in a vacuum, just by viewing Islamic State propaganda online.

    Researching the three waves of terror plotting in Australia, Shandon Harris-Hogan and Kate Barrelle have found that jihadism — defined in the report as "violent manifestations of Islamism" — is most often seeded by social and family groups.

    Mr Harris-Hogan currently trains counterterrorism authorities and the Australian Federal Police in understanding deradicalisation and disengagement.

    "It's that real-world influence, not anything to do with their online behaviour or online contact," Mr Harris-Hogan said.

    The three 'waves' of terror
    • First wave (2000–2004): Seven individuals were arrested in Australia for terrorism-related offences. They were all men, with an average age of 31.4 and mostly linked to Jemaah Islamiah, which is inspired by the ideology of Al Qaeda.
    • Second wave (2005–June 2014): 37 males were arrested with the average age of 27.5. Out of sync with international trends, the second wave of Australian jihadists had few clear connections to world terrorist networks.
    • Third wave (July 2014–2016): ASIO escalated Australia's terror threat alert to "High" from "Medium" as Islamic State declared a new caliphate. The first fatal acts of jihadist violence took place on Australian soil including the Lindt Cafe siege, the shooting of police accountant Curtis Cheng and the attempted beheading of Victorian officers. The third wave also saw teenagers and women emerging as jihadist subgroups, with 72 individuals arrested for terror-related offences moving the arrest rate from one per year, to one per month.
    It's not social media radicalising teenagers
    "Within the Australian teenage jihadist network there are very few, if any, examples of teenagers being radicalised solely online," Mr Harris-Hogan said.

    Of the 116 Australian jihadists studied over a 17-year period, 109 of the individuals were found to have real-world human connections.

    While the internet enables Australian teenagers to connect with people all over the world, social media platforms act as echo chambers to reinforce existing beliefs, but there is no evidence to suggest that is the cause of radicalisation.

    Mr Harris-Hogan says it is time to stop blaming social media for radicalising teenage jihadists and start looking at existing networks.

    More women and girls are becoming jihadists
    While there were no women charged during the first two waves of jihadists examined by Mr Harris-Hogan, a handful of females have been charged with terrorist offences in the past few years.

    "Women are certainly playing a more active role in the network and have moved to the forefront," he said.

    In 2015, Fatima Elomar was arrested at Sydney airport on her way to join her terrorist husband, Mohammed Elomar, in Syria.

    In March 2016, a teenager was charged with receiving funds intended for a relative fighting with Islamic State and in February 2017 another teenager was arrested with her husband for preparing acts to commit a terrorist attack.

    "Each of the women involved were either arrested while assisting their partner or another family member in terror-related activities," Mr Harris-Hogan said.

    There's a reason there are more arrests
    It may feel like police are conducting more and more raids and mass arrests of terror suspects in recent years while charging them with lesser crimes, and that's exactly what they're doing.

    In the recent, third wave of jihadism, police arrested more than eight times the number of suspects for terror-related offences than in the first and second waves combined.

    As the terror threat has evolved from the more ambitious large-scale attacks masterminded by Al Qaeda-linked groups to the simpler Islamic State plots, the police have shadowed the trend.

    Police are under pressure to respond more quickly, even if the suspects are charged with lesser offences than they could be if law enforcement had waited for more evidence.

    While the operations are more frequent, they are also more sparsely resourced, the report said.

    Lone wolves are in the minority
    Looking across the sample over 17 years, lone actors are incredibly infrequent, although since mid-2014 we have seen a small increase in the number of people planning acts of violence alone.

    They are statistically far more likely to have a diagnosable mental illness than individuals who radicalise in a social context and are not representative of the network at large.

    Mr Harris-Hogan says lone actors are an exception to the norm in Australia and those who planned or committed an act of violence still had family ties or close personal connections to other people.

    "In the case of [Sydney siege gunman] Man Haron Monis, he is different from the overwhelming majority of Australian terror suspects and should be viewed differently to the normal cohort.

    "The likelihood of seeing somebody like him again is exceptionally rare."

    Directly after the murder of Curtis Cheng in 2015, 15-year-old Farhad Jabar was labelled a lone wolf terrorist.

    "Although he was considered a lone actor, he was connected to six other people charged in relation to the attack," Mr Harris-Hogan said.

    "He was socially connected to this group through people he had gone to school or grown up with, police later attempted to question his sister but found she had left Australia to join Islamic State.

    Converts to Islam are not 'understood very well'
    Jihadists who have converted to Islam are emerging as a subgroup within the Australian terror network, Mr Harris-Hogan said, alongside teenagers and women.

    In Australia, 8 per cent of the jihadists identified in the research were converts to Islam.

    "There has been a small number of converts involved with violent acts," Mr Harris-Hogan said.

    "If we look across western countries, converts are statistically over represented in terrorist related activities."

    In the UK, while converts make up only 2-3 per cent of the Muslim population, 31 per cent had been involved in terrorism prosecutions.

    "What makes them more vulnerable is not something we understand very well," Mr Harris-Hogan said.

    "We need to look at these sub-groups and develop programs and strategies to work with them, we can't simply treat the network as a hundred like-minded individuals who would all be appropriate to one program.

    "We need to separate teenagers and other groups like women and converts."

    No specialist deradicalisation for teens in juvenile detention
    The emergence of teenage terrorists in Australia presents new challenges for Australian authorities.

    In Australia, there is currently no dedicated intervention program for terrorism offenders in the youth justice system.

    "We can't have a one-size-fits-all model where we have younger offenders aged 14 to 16 in the same programs as those in their late 20s who have committed the same offence," Mr Harris-Hogan said.

    He says the management of teenage jihadists both in and out of detention will contribute to the threat posed by the jihadist network in the future.

    "We need to work with young people to ensure they don't grow the network by influencing those around them," Mr Harris-Hogan said.

    "It's also about getting in front of the next investigation and preventing more people becoming involved in the network and minimising the influence of young people in growing and sustaining the network over time."
     
  16. myrrh ken

    myrrh ken Bench

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    Thought it was mental health and bullying that creates violent tendencies.
     
  17. gUt

    gUt Coach

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    https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/n...m_medium=article&utm_term&utm_campaign=social

    Iran: Young man flogged 80 times for drinking alcohol as a child
    The public flogging on Tuesday in Iran of a young man convicted of consuming alcohol when he was just 14 or 15 years old over a decade ago highlights the inhumanity of a justice system that legalizes brutality, said Amnesty International today.

    “The circumstances of this case are absolutely shocking, representing another horrific example of the Iranian authorities’ warped priorities. No one, regardless of age, should be subjected to flogging; that a child was prosecuted for consuming alcohol and sentenced to 80 lashes beggars belief,” said Philip Luther, Research and Advocacy Director for the Middle East and North Africa at Amnesty International.

    “The Iranian authorities’ prolific use of corporal punishment, including on children, demonstrates a shocking disregard for basic humanity. They should immediately abolish all forms of such punishment, which in Iran includes amputation and blinding as well as flogging.”

    The public flogging took place on 10 July in Niazmand Square, Kashmar, Razavi Khorasan province, where the man, known just as M. R., was flogged 80 times on his back. Domestic media outlets have posted a picture from showing the young man tied to a tree as he was flogged by a masked man, with a crowd of people watching at a distance.

    According to the Public Prosecutor of Kashmar, M. R. consumed alcohol during a wedding where an argument caused a fight that resulted in the death of a 17-year-old. The public prosecutor has conceded that M.R. was not involved in the murder and that the flogging sentence was only for drinking alcohol.

    According to the prosecutor, the “offence” took place in the Iranian year of 1385 (March 2006 to March 2007). M. R. was born in the Iranian year of 1370 (March 1991 to March 1992), which means he would have been 14 or 15 years old at the time of the incident. The flogging sentence was issued 10 years ago in 1386 (March 2007 to March 2008). It is not clear to Amnesty International why the sentence was carried out after over a decade.

    Judicial authorities in Iran have imposed and carried out various forms of cruel punishments in 2018, including the amputation of a man’s hand for stealing.

    “The use of cruel and inhuman punishments such as flogging, amputation and blinding are an appalling assault on human dignity and violate the absolute prohibition on torture and other degrading treatment or punishment under international law,” said Philip Luther.

    “As a party to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, Iran is legally obliged to forbid torture and other cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment or punishment. It’s simply unacceptable that the Iranian authorities continue to allow such punishments and to justify them in the name of protecting religious morals.”

    Background

    Article 265 of Iran’s Islamic Penal Code states that the punishment for consumption of alcohol by a Muslim is 80 lashes.

    More than 100 “offences” are punishable by flogging under Iranian law. The offences include theft, assault, vandalism, defamation and fraud. They also cover acts that should not be criminalized, such as adultery, intimate relationships between unmarried men and women, “breach of public morals” and consensual same-sex sexual relations.

    In January 2016, the Committee on the Rights of the Child, the UN body that monitors implementation of the Convention on the Rights of the Child by state parties, urged Iran to “immediately repeal all provisions which authorize or condone cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment of children”.
     
  18. Surely

    Surely Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah but thousands aren't fleeing Iran because it's a barbaric shithole

    Otherwise North Korea would have more asylum seekers
     
  19. Surely

    Surely Moderator Staff Member

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    What do female jihadis get in the afterlife ?

    70 big dicks ?
     
  20. t-ba

    t-ba Coach

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    Who said Iran wasn't a Barbaric shithole. Can you point out who has disputed that?

    But again on the Asylum seeker metric, is it North Korea or Croatia?
     

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