US Presidential election 2016, pt 2. The quadrennial comedy show.

Discussion in 'Four Corners' started by sensesmaybenumbed, May 20, 2016.

  1. Danish

    Danish Referee

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    I don't see why making noise during a moment's silence is not applicable. Both are deliberately going against what is being asked of you (one to stand, the other to be quiet).

    No need to twist one's self into knots. Choosing to remain seated, let alone going one further and taking a knee, during a national anthem is showing disrespect for that anthem. Its poor etiquette if done by mistake, and disrespectful at worst if done deliberately. Frankly I don't see how its even up for debate.

    To me the only knot twisting is being done by people trying to claim that kneeling is actually a respectful thing to do. That just doesn't make sense.
     
  2. Danish

    Danish Referee

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    Oh and you asked for a poll. Here you go:

    http://remingtonresearchgroup.com/surveys/NFL_9-25-17.pdf

    Some highlights -

    64% think NFL players should stand and be respectful during the national anthem
    60% think there is a more appropriate place to protest than during the anthem
    50% are less likely to watch NFL because of the ongoing protests
    51% are watching less NFL than previous years
    69% of those who are watching less, list players forcing political views into the game as their reason

    Oh and in this poll only 46% gave a favourable rating to Trump (he is sitting between 39-44 in national approval polling). So ts not like they just polled a bunch of fox news fans or something
     
  3. Firey_Dragon

    Firey_Dragon Coach

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    If a protest is acceptable to the majority, you're doing it wrong.

    I personally don't get the furore over kneeling for an anthem, well I understand it from an American hyper patriotism perspective. I don't get it as disrespecting the military which is what the discussion has turned into. In a free and open society people should be allowed to peacefully protest however they want. It is a slippery slope when you talk of trying to ban these sorts of things.

    The anthem apparently is proving itself as the best possible place to protest. If it was ineffective or a better place to be had, you'd get nowhere near the coverage you're getting on it.

    Fun fact: General sentiment on the civil rights movement at the time during the 60's had similar disapproval numbers. History has a funny way of changing the narrative that MLK was liked and supported by the majority.
     
  4. Canard

    Canard Coach

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    Replying to both posts.

    Do you think the polling questions are loaded? Q5 says "do you think the players should stand and be respectful during the anthem" I'm amazed they got such a high No answer to that.


    Polls that have predetermined outcomes in mind are not that useful.

    Also you seem to be arguing that if the majority of society don't support your protest then it's not valid or should be stopped.

    Probably the real question is, what's your reason for opposing to the protests mate?
     
  5. Danish

    Danish Referee

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    You don't get that there are going to be people who get annoyed if someone doesn't stand when a nation's anthem is playing?

    Being asked to stand during anthems is not limited to the US. All nations that I am aware of expect basic courtesies and respects be taken when the national anthem is playing.

    The Yanks take it to the next level with the hand over heart and such, but I don't believe anyone could be surprised that making a point to not stand during an anthem would be met with backlash.

    As to the right to protest, I agree that everyone has the right to peacefully protest..... in their own time. No one has the right to do so during work hours, unless you have approval from your employer.

    The NFL and individual franchises are well within their rights to tell them to knock it off or risk sanctions.


    Fun fact: Race relations in America were at historically high levels up until midway though the Obama presidency. They have taken a swift nose dive since 2013.

    Funnily enough, thats the same year the BLM movement was founded.

    Fantastic job they are doing, eh?
     
  6. Danish

    Danish Referee

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    Depends on why you are conducting the poll.

    If you are doing it to try and address the falling viewership of your sport, it doesn't really matter WHY people don't agree with the protest. All that matters is confirming if the protests are the reason they are tuning out.

    Thats why the NFL is now taking steps to end them
     
  7. Pete Cash

    Pete Cash Immortal

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    Blacks should be less uppity and whites would like them more ?
     
    bazza likes this.
  8. Canard

    Canard Coach

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    Haha. Yes blacks should have shut up about police killings because a poll said race relations were at an all time high.

    Black people should be seen and not heard.

    The mantra of the right.
     
  9. Danish

    Danish Referee

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    I guess inventing an argument does make it easier to debate it
     
  10. Mong

    Mong Immortal

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    I don't get the big issue here. If you don't want to stand up don't stand up, if you also don't want to stand for a minutes silence for something then don't, as long as that decision is coupled with not interrupting the rights of those around you to express their choice to stand for either then I have zero issue with it.
     
  11. Canard

    Canard Coach

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    So what's your view? BLM is wrong and there was no issue with police shooting young black men?
     
  12. Danish

    Danish Referee

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    They could stop shooting so many people and cops would probably stop being so jumpy around them?
     
  13. Danish

    Danish Referee

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    I think there is an issue with police shooting unarmed people in general in the US.

    I do not think black people make up a statistically significant amount of these shootings, particularly when compared to the amount of violent crime black offenders commit.

    When a particular group is responsible for over half of all murders, one would expect they would be over represented in police shootings
     
  14. Canard

    Canard Coach

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    I think innocent people getting killed, is an issue that should be talked about.

    That's just me.

    You've still not explained why you personally are so aggrieved by such innocuous protests in the NFL
     
  15. Pete Cash

    Pete Cash Immortal

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    But blacks shouldnt get upset over it ? Its not just blacks being shot but things like a black person goes into police custody alive but by the time they arrive at the station they are dead.

    Your post essentially said white people were happy with blacks until they started to complain.
     
  16. 2_Smoking_Guns

    2_Smoking_Guns First Grade

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    is that some sort of little hissy fit..?? in what alternate universe is that in any way relevant to the discussion..??
     
  17. Danish

    Danish Referee

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    The polling I was talking about was strictly of blacks, actually. So you are 100% wrong on what you assumed my post “essentially” said.

    How many black people were killed in the fashion you mentioned? How many white, Latino, etc people died the same way?
     
  18. 2_Smoking_Guns

    2_Smoking_Guns First Grade

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    do you mean like scenarios where the Aussie team turn their backs on the NZ Haka?
     
  19. 2_Smoking_Guns

    2_Smoking_Guns First Grade

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    I believe the ones that are the subject of the protests had not shot anyone....
     
  20. Danish

    Danish Referee

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    Yep you are a genuine hero


    I’m upset by it am I? News to me.

    Does highlighting that Americans don’t agree with the protests mean I am upset?
     

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