WCW on WWE Network

Discussion in 'Pro Wrestling' started by Iafeta, Dec 4, 2016.

  1. Iafeta

    Iafeta Referee

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2003
    Messages:
    22,732
    Likes Received:
    2,928
    I wonder how you book its break up? I reckon you have a Hollywood v Goldberg PPV rematch where the nWo is on the line for Goldbergs title. But of a schmoz match where someone like Nash turns on the nWo. That way you can book storylines where ex nWoites go after Nash and just continue to implode. Savage could be the master saboteur creating friction. These storylines could easily fold under whatever Goldberg is doing as he should be the main draw with the main storylines, and it gives a basis for the nWo members to create their future agendas. Another way would be to have an up and coming face attack Hogan, such as a Chris Benoit.

    The nWo shoulda been done and dusted by mid 98.
     
    Eelementary likes this.
  2. Valheru

    Valheru Bench

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,690
    Likes Received:
    851
    TBH the NWO should have been done and dusted by Starrcade 97 or not long thereafter. Sting was always the main protagonist against the NWO and his (clean) defeat of Hogan should have been the end or maybe some type of 5 on 5 scenario at Superbrawl between Sting, DDP, Luger, Flair & Bret VS Hogan, Nash, Hall, Giant and Savage or something like that.

    That does stunt the run of Goldberg as him destroying the NWO was a highlight but by late 97 the NWO had been around for 18 months so it had really run its course.
     
    Eelementary and Iafeta like this.
  3. steggz

    steggz Juniors

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,411
    Likes Received:
    55
    Nash, Hogan et al didn't want to give up their power behind the camera or their time on it, so it seems
     
  4. Iafeta

    Iafeta Referee

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2003
    Messages:
    22,732
    Likes Received:
    2,928
    Yep agree on your view V. I think the SuperBrawl match is cool. You can still sew the seeds of internal beef in the nWo, the reason I think that would be cool is you still can give the main protagonists something to do and not necessarily be nWo without the label and also not get in Goldbergs way. In 98 he should IMO have a major PPV rematch with Hogan, and I think feud with Hart, Sting, DDP and the Giant while you focus on 98 on ensuring Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero, Raven are given major pay off wins to become credible main event options. If they could get Hall off the grog too he'd be a good main event option.
     
  5. Shaun Hewitt

    Shaun Hewitt First Grade

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2003
    Messages:
    5,779
    Likes Received:
    113
    nWo didn't kill wCw. The inability to create new main-eventers bar Goldberg was the problem.
    Benoit, Eddie, Jericho all had the talent (as they proved elsewhere) to hit the top spot.

    When it comes to nWo I'm very mixed. I like the idea of keeping it a small group, exclusive and dangerous. I also enjoyed having a larger nWo including Stiener, Stevie Ray, Norton, Bagwell. Ones I didn't like goin in were Horace, Vincent, Spicoli, Nick Patrick, Dusty, Wallstreet, Rogers
     
  6. Iafeta

    Iafeta Referee

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2003
    Messages:
    22,732
    Likes Received:
    2,928
    I think they could elevate guys well into premier promotion midcarders fine but lacked the nuts to take a punt and it got stale and then Russo made it gimmicky. Half Russos formula was good in that he helped get Steiner, Booker T into premier roles. It's the gimmicky side of it that got me.

    Watched Fire and Ice and Steiners last night. Three times Scott Steiner dangerously botched moves on Scott Norton. Was surprised looking back how big and agile Ice was.
     
  7. JohnDoe

    JohnDoe Juniors

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2015
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    16
    Has anyone listened to the death of wcw audible book? Signed up to Amazom audible books for the one month fee trial and downloaded it for free.

    Have not yet finished listening to it, but its been good not sure how much of what is said is legit though.
     
  8. Iafeta

    Iafeta Referee

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2003
    Messages:
    22,732
    Likes Received:
    2,928
    Yeah I've read it a couple of times. IIRC it had some fairly strong bias.
     
  9. Manurewa_Marlins

    Manurewa_Marlins Bench

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    2,707
    Likes Received:
    59
    book the downfall of the nwo

    I'd have them acknowledge the schmoz that was the finish to Starcade 97, with the ordering of a rematch which Hogan loses, clean at the next payperview (Great American Bash, I think) and with that the nWo are done. The next Nitro, Hall and Nash turn on Hogan and form their own collective, known unofficially as the WolfPac, featuring themselves Konaan and Eddie Guerrero. This collective would split when the Filthy Animals get more popular than the Outsiders, leading to a fued between the two, before Nash turns on Hall, and they fight at Starrcade in a grudge match we never got to see.

    Sting in the meantime runs through the other nWo members, promising Diamond Dallas Page a title shot, to which he gradually reneages on, to the point where Sting turns heel and fights Page in the championship match at Starrcade 98, after Page wins WWIII.

    What about Bret Hart? After the schmozz at Starcade and everyone else seemingly getting a shot before he does, he begins complaining about his treatment saying its no better than New York, he continues the same anti American schtick he had been using, forming his new stable, the Dungeon, along with the Bulldog, Neidhart (who acts as a manager/enforcer) and two young Dungeon grads, Chris Benoit and Chris Jericho. They end up doing battle in a War Games match at Starrcade 98 with the Horsmen (Ric Flair, Arn Anderson, Dean Malenko and Mongo).

    As for Hogan, hes a man without a home after the nWo and starts battling for his redemption. One guy who gets into his ear is another guy who lost his cohorts recently...Raven. Raven starts manipulating Hogan, playing mindgames etc, until he gets into the ear of Hogan's nephew Horace. This leads to a no holds barred match at Starrcade.

    Goldberg runs through everyone as planned, however at WWIII, ends up in the final four, along with three others: Benoit, Malenko and Scott Steiner. Steiner and Goldberg eliminate eachother and brawl to the point where they are both evicted from the arena be security. No touches until their Starrcade match.

    Final Starrcade 98 Card:

    World Heavyweight Title
    Sting (c) v Diamond Dallas Page

    War Games
    The Dungeon v The Horsemen

    Grudge Match
    Scott Hall v Kevin Nash

    United States Title
    Bill Goldberg v Scott Steiner

    No Holds Barred
    Hulk Hogan v Raven

    WCW World Tag Team Titles
    The Filthy Animals (c) v Harlem Heat

    WCW TV Title - Blood Runs Cold 3 Way Dance
    Wrath (c) v Mortis v Glacier

    WCW Cruiserweight Title
    Rey Misterio Jr. v Psycosis

    (pinched most of this from the Wrestling Roundtable video heh)

    ...

    1998 would be the rise of the midcarders, notably Goldberg, Guerrero, Konaan, Benoit, Jericho and Scott Steiner. DDP would be phased quickly after Starrcade, I'd get the belt on a heel Bret Hart to begin with, fueding with Benoit and Jericho and have Goldberg continue to mow through people. At the halfway point of 1998, a title switch to Ric Flair, followed by a switch to a heel Scott Steiner would follow, leading to his showdown with Goldberg at Starrcade 1998 in the main event for the strap. I'd also have Bret up against Benoit in a 2/3 falls or something, and Jericho and Malenko and Guerrero in a 3 way for the US belt. Raven and Sting. Misterio and Kidman/Guerrera/Psycosis. A heel DDP v Booker T. No idea what to do with Hogan, Hall or Nash though. The cruiserweight belt books itself.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
    steggz and Eelementary like this.
  10. RedVDave

    RedVDave Bench

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Messages:
    4,055
    Likes Received:
    106
    [​IMG]
     
    Iafeta likes this.
  11. Eelementary

    Eelementary Immortal

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2003
    Messages:
    48,069
    Likes Received:
    1,776
    No doubt, Russo played a big part in WCW's demise, too.

    But I think the way they handled the nWo towards the back end really turned a lot of people off, and ultimately killed off any hope they had of being number 1.
     
  12. RedVDave

    RedVDave Bench

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Messages:
    4,055
    Likes Received:
    106
    No I do agree it seemed like it was the same old sh!t every week with the nWo. Not to mention countless face/heel turns I think Bret Hart turned something like 10 times in his 3 year stint.
     
    Eelementary likes this.
  13. Eelementary

    Eelementary Immortal

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2003
    Messages:
    48,069
    Likes Received:
    1,776
    And that comes down primarily to Russo.

    Russo did a lot of good things - but he also did a lot of bad things.
     
  14. RedVDave

    RedVDave Bench

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Messages:
    4,055
    Likes Received:
    106
    No I agree for every 1 good idea he did he seemed to have about 9 bad ones.
     
    Eelementary likes this.
  15. Eelementary

    Eelementary Immortal

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2003
    Messages:
    48,069
    Likes Received:
    1,776
    Yup! Too true!
     
  16. Iafeta

    Iafeta Referee

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2003
    Messages:
    22,732
    Likes Received:
    2,928
    The biggest positive Russo had was he genuinely gave the whole roster a use. As in the enhancement talents of the roster had character, they had some storyline etc. but it was just too gimmicky. I mean, take Mike Awesome for example. Comes in with a real bang, out of nowhere he's over as hell. Next thing you know he's in mid card feuds while he's the Fat Chick Thrilla or the 70s guy. Now in fairness Mike did an awesome job of making those characters interesting, but it was just insanity. He's gone from potential main event powerhouse to jobber to the stars because Russos imagination is just too wild.

    As much as I respect Jeff Jarrett for his longevity in this field, I can't help also think they hitched themselves to the wrong mule with him.

    In 1996 and 1997, WCW had its shows at 80 per cent match ratio. Then they went to three hours and the matches became meaningless filler. 1999 it recovers a little but then Russo comes along and its gimmicky as hell. And Kevin Sullivan is booking and getting revenge for Benoit banging his Mrs. By 2000, I reckon it's 30 per cent matches, 70 per cent angles. It's now a poorly put together sit com.
     
    Eelementary likes this.
  17. Captain Apollo

    Captain Apollo First Grade

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2013
    Messages:
    5,432
    Likes Received:
    1,071
    A bit off topic, but I can still remember 2 of the best ever wrestling matches I saw in the late 1980s, and they were both from NWA/WCW at its best. Both bouts were Ric Flair v Ricky "the Dragon" Steamboat.

    First one was at Clash of Champions VI: Rajin' Cagun in April 1989. The bout was a best 2/3 falls . It pitted then champion Steamboat v Flair, match went for just over 55 minutes with Steamboat retaining the title by getting the second and third pinfalls after Flair had gotten the first one. The final fall had some controversy which was the set up for the second bout between these two.

    Second bout was at Wrestlewar 1989: Music City Showdown.This was another long match (well over 30 minutes) with both wrestlers giving it their all. Flair eventually won to regain the title. Pro Wrestling Illustrated voted this bout their match of the year for 1989.

    After seeing those 2 bouts, I thought the WWF (as it then was) was a load of baloney by comparison.
     
  18. Valheru

    Valheru Bench

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,690
    Likes Received:
    851
    To be fair to Russo and this is a point often overlooked, he didn't sign with WCW until October 1999 at which stage the writing was well and truly on the wall. He made a crap product even worse to be sure but the company had already jumped the shark by then, the best talent had or was about to leave and the inmates were well and truly running the asylum.

    As an example to the above, he booked Arquette to win the title which was an absolutely ridiculous decision which many people view as making the title meaningless. Well it already meant nothing from January 4 1999 after the finger poke of doom...
     
    Eelementary likes this.
  19. Iafeta

    Iafeta Referee

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2003
    Messages:
    22,732
    Likes Received:
    2,928
    I agree Val. And I believe some of what he did was good - he helped turned talented lower midcarders into genuine options for major titles because he gave them all pretty much something to do. His roster utilisation was kinda good. And I would also say that the whole "lets make this show a sit com with angles and the odd filler wrestling match" really came home to roost in 1998 under Bischoff when they went to 3 hours, and added Thunder.

    The finger poke of doom was an absolute aberration of a match. Single handedly took prestige over what supposedly the entire roster was fighting for.

    One thing I'm noticing watching WCW in 1996, how dumb was Alundra Blaze? She comes in, drops the WWF Title into a bin on live TV therefore ruining any chance of a return, wrestles a match against Colonel Robert Parker, does an angle fight with Sister Sherri, and then basically she's done. Again though that showed no foresight from WCW. Just prior to signing Sister Sherri, they did some joshi matches on their PPV's on pay-per-appearance deals. At WW3 '95 they had Bull Nakano in a tag team match, it was quite well done. I'm not sure how the Americans would have taken their style, but it seemed to show some intent to have a women's division. And then nothing. Poor Madusa...

    Manurewa, just on the idea of Bret going with the whinger heel anti-American heel gimmick... IMO, surely after Montreal, he is a wrestler potentially with the greatest face sympathy in just about the history of the industry. I would book him as a cornerstone face who is out to avenge any wrongs. Almost the old school traditionalist I guess.
     
  20. Manurewa_Marlins

    Manurewa_Marlins Bench

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    2,707
    Likes Received:
    59
    certainly initially especially if you had the nWo still around. He had a lot of people from his past with potential gripes to turn into storylines: Hogan (WM9), Nash and Hall (Shawn's boys) etc.

    But lets face it, the fued everyone wanted but never got was a big money rivalry between him and Flair. WCW was Flair country, especially in the wake of the nWo fued, so having Bret play bad guy is only natural. Now, you could give him a different angle to be the heel. Perhaps he calls out the Horsemen for being a thing of the past, perhaps he calls blames them for the nWo being able to run amuck for such a long time. Hey, maybe he and the Dungeon are the ones who vanquish the nWo, and at the conclusion to the inring celebrations the following night on Nitro, he refuses to shake Flair's hand. Hmm I like that idea.
     

Share This Page