Well done and Congrat Gareth on 5/8 of 2017

[Dragon for life]

Congratulations to Widdop, before his injury he was in career best form, who knows what might of happened without that injury.

Sorry I have to disagree. Maybe he was in career best form ( for his standard) but he was playing behind a dominant forward pack who were making 80 metres a set. If you couldn't score points whilst the opponents were back pedaling that far then you shouldn't be in first grade. Once the opposition worked that out they stopped the go forward and what happened we struggled to score points because widdop is not creative enough, with the exception of a few games in the later half. Second man every back line move is not going to cut it. The opposition knew what was coming everytime. Shit, if he threw it to the first man we probably would have scored because the opposition wouldn't have known what the f**k was going on. Sorry I'm not a Widdop fan and just don't think he is creative enough for the position he plays. A good leader would have inspired and led the team to victory in our diabolical 2nd half of the season.

I'm really hoping Hunt makes a difference to our attack next year but am not fully convinced with the coaching staff that this can happen.

Just my opinion guys so fire away.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

Sorry I have to disagree. Maybe he was in career best form ( for his standard) but he was playing behind a dominant forward pack who were making 80 metres a set. If you couldn't score points whilst the opponents were back pedaling that far then you shouldn't be in first grade. Once the opposition worked that out they stopped the go forward and what happened we struggled to score points because widdop is not creative enough, with the exception of a few games in the later half. Second man every back line move is not going to cut it. The opposition knew what was coming everytime. Shit, if he threw it to the first man we probably would have scored because the opposition wouldn't have known what the f**k was going on. Sorry I'm not a Widdop fan and just don't think he is creative enough for the position he plays. A good leader would have inspired and led the team to victory in our diabolical 2nd half of the season.

I'm really hoping Hunt makes a difference to our attack next year but am not fully convinced with the coaching staff that this can happen.

Just my opinion guys so fire away.

Objective post.
I think Widdop is a good 5/8 but is not the sort of player that can take a game by the scruff of the neck.
When you look at the team stats, any decent half would do well behind that pack of forwards so tick there.
The problem is he is not a dominant player and certainly not a captain/leader.
In his defence, McGregor's game plans and structures are amateurish so, like you said, second pass off the ruck all the time becomes easy to counter once the opposition get wise to it.
Secondly, he did not have a strong halves partner but I worry that he has not combined with anyone very well.
Benji/Widdop - disastrous in 2016 and that nagging doubt is amplified when you watch Benji play under Bennett. It's like watching a totally different player to the one that played for us.
Widdop/McCrone was persevered with because Widdop preferred McCrone as his halves partner.
When Mann finally teamed up it was mostly disjointed as well.
Our kicking game (especially long) was ordinary again this year which cost us dearly
But ultimately, we lost a number of games because of poor game management.
Next year we welcome a professional halfback into the fold which, in theory, should make a big difference.
But with McGregor as coach it still may not work out.
I think the weight of expectation on Hunt to fix our problems is unreasonable.
I think you are very close to reality with your post.

 

[Mr Red]

Widdop same as last year, went missing in action in the crucial games...
Hasn't developed in the last 12 months under poor coaching and poor game plans.

 

[rasaint]

At the end of the day, so many opinions I simply comment that Gareth is a top class player and in the upper echelons of players in the game.

Gareth has good speed ( never seen him run down after an intercept), tackles well, good short kicking game, good goal kicker, a sublime passer of ball to the left side ( shanks the odd one but hey so do others), very strong back up instincts, scores trys and generally a sharp attacking player( sometimes trys too hard and crabs).

Would I prefer Michael Morgan? Yes. Munster? Again very close call, probably marginal yes as he is much younger.

Good on you Gareth and well done on being acknowledged.

 

[ouryear]

At the end of the day, so many opinions I simply comment that Gareth is a top class player and in the upper echelons of players in the game.

Gareth has good speed ( never seen him run down after an intercept), tackles well, good short kicking game, good goal kicker, a sublime passer of ball to the left side ( shanks the odd one but hey so do others), very strong back up instincts, scores trys and generally a sharp attacking player( sometimes trys too hard and crabs).

Would I prefer Michael Morgan? Yes. Munster? Again very close call, probably marginal yes as he is much younger.

Good on you Gareth and well done on being acknowledged.

Got to say i agree with dragonforlife.

As a number 6, gareth has almost no creativity.

I watched a replay tonight of cameron smiths on field captaincy style....he was into his players every minute of the game. Demanding excellence
When Parramatta scored a try, behind the goal line, he pulled all his team together and motivated the bejesus out of them.

They listened to every word.
Inspiring.
Never have i seen widdop motivate and lead our team.....damn it.

 

[This Year?]

To celebrate Widdop's resounding success I hope we see a grubber kick to nobody in the 2nd tackle 10m out from the opposition try line that goes touch ingoal and a crabbing run that ends with a hospital pass to the most flat footed attacker on the field.

 

[True_Believer]

Objective post.

Because it suits your argument.

Benji/Widdop - disastrous in 2016 and that nagging doubt is amplified when you watch Benji play under Bennett. It's like watching a totally different player to the one that played for us.

Subjective. He still played his usual "rocks and diamonds" game and arguably lost the first final for them. He also had very little game time throughout the year. If he was any good, Bennett would have been playing him from the start. Additionally Bennett wouldn't have let him go if he was seen as valuable to the club moving forward.

I think the weight of expectation on Hunt to fix our problems is unreasonable.

And yet it's acceptable to have the same or greater expectation on Widdop? Completely unrealistic.

Yes he has deficiencies in his game but you would have to think that if we had creativity in the half, hooker and fullback as well (or at least 1 of those positions) we may see a different level of playmaker. Not to mention creativity in the coaching ranks.

 

[watatank]

It will be interesting to see how Widdop plays for England in the World Cup. Needs to step it up after an average campaign in the four nations last year

 

[Souths Till I Die]

Sounds like we agree over Maloney at least.

1. Norman played half for at least 10 rounds with Gutherson at five-eight until Moses arrived.
2. Not debating Easts patchy form. My comment was that I never saw Keary play a solid 80 minutes. He would do a few good things but never took control of a game or stood out particularly. My opinion.
3. No it's not a serious comment. The serious comment is I didn't watch Manly play much so can't really comment on Green's form.
4. Agree Munster is a stand out. But when they allocate the three/two/one points during a Storm game, there is always a good chance that Smith/Slater/Cronk are going to get the points and Munster will miss out.

I stand by my comments. I don't think Widdop is the best 5/8 running around, but he's had a good season, and I can understand why he won. I think it's deserved.

Very well said. It's easy for Munster to look better than he is playing in the best storm squad we've seen since they cheated the cap. I'd like to see how Munster goes playing with croft and Hughes before I start judging him as the best 5/8th in the comp. When Widdop is on, he's f**king on.

 

[dragonssamy61]

No need to apologise Dennis. We've all learnt something.

Think I'll start a conspiracy theory about Widdop wanting McCrone as half to boost his Dally M chances.

Jonno
You will get samysaint all fired up lol

 

[Life's Good]

I congratulate Widdop for winning the award. I think he had some great games mixed with some junk which is why he reminds me of Barrett.
People can argue whether he deserved it or not but the fact is he won it.
The bigger thing for me is the credibility of the awards itself when you have Sharon Woods beating Paul Vaughan for prop of the year and Phil Rothfield presenting.

 

[giboz71]

Widdop is that player who has all the tools to be an elite half, but just doesn't have the mental fortitude to get his team over the line, unlike the champions halves like JT, Cronk and now Morgan.

Reminds me a bit of when Trent Barret played for us. He could never win the big games either.

Just watching Michael Morgan this finals series, if we could get Widdop to perform like that, I'd venture to say we'd be perennial semi finalists instead of hovering around the edge of the 8 like we seem to do every year. In a lot of cases, that one champion player can make all the difference and hate to say Widdop hasn't been that guy for us.

 

[getsmarty]

Widdop is that player who has all the tools to be an elite half, but just doesn't have the mental fortitude to get his team over the line, unlike the champions halves like JT, Cronk and now Morgan.

Reminds me a bit of when Trent Barret played for us. He could never win the big games either.

Just watching Michael Morgan this finals series, if we could get Widdop to perform like that, I'd venture to say we'd be perennial semi finalists instead of hovering around the edge of the 8 like we seem to do every year. In a lot of cases, that one champion player can make all the difference and hate to say Widdop hasn't been that guy for us.

In all honesty I think the biggest issue is coaching. When our power game doesn't work we start to play sideways. The bench is under utilized....Without Widdop we lose more games ..pretty simple. He is the least of our problems.

 

[Life's Good]

In all honesty I think the biggest issue is coaching. When our power game doesn't work we start to play sideways. The bench is under utilized....Without Widdop we lose more games ..pretty simple. He is the least of our problems.

Well said.

 

[True_Believer]

In all honesty I think the biggest issue is coaching. When our power game doesn't work we start to play sideways. The bench is under utilized....Without Widdop we lose more games ..pretty simple. He is the least of our problems.

Agreed. I was thinking about this today and looking at it from an oppositions perspective. Opposition coach developing a game plan against Storm:

1. Shut down forwards
2. Shut down Cronk
3. Shut down Slater
4. Shut down Smith
5. Shut down Munster
6. Keep the wingers and edges under control

Developing a game plan against Dragons:

1. Shut down forwards
2. Shut down Widdop

There's really nothing more the opposition needs to do to control us. We just don't have any alternatives in the spine and no threats on the edges. Additionally the coaching staff have focussed on a single game plan throughout the whole season and 1 set move. It's all far too predictable.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

Because it suits your argument.




Subjective. He still played his usual "rocks and diamonds" game and arguably lost the first final for them. He also had very little game time throughout the year. If he was any good, Bennett would have been playing him from the start. Additionally Bennett wouldn't have let him go if he was seen as valuable to the club moving forward.




And yet it's acceptable to have the same or greater expectation on Widdop? Completely unrealistic.

Yes he has deficiencies in his game but you would have to think that if we had creativity in the half, hooker and fullback as well (or at least 1 of those positions) we may see a different level of playmaker. Not to mention creativity in the coaching ranks.

I respect your views.
I suppose the essence of these posts is subjective to start with so totally respect your point of view.
"Suit my argument"? - I just happen to agree with the previous post.
However, I can tell you something that isn't subjective.
2016 and now 2017 are done and dusted with the fan base crying in their beer once again.
Happy to stick up for Widdop but he was part of the reason we didn't make the 8.
That's my opinion anyway.
He was outplayed in numerous games that we contested and we lost games we should've won because of his game management.
He didn't crab as much as last year but still trotted out those habits in numerous games we played.
I hope Hunt will make a difference and that our forwards can re-visit their form of 2017.
We only have another 5 months until all these questions will be answered.
.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

Yes, Widdop's form deprecated from about the season's halfway point....his injury didn't help...but didn't else notice that it simply coincided with both McCrone and McIness falling away too.

As someone else wrote, he is the last thing to worry about, especially compared to McGregor's lack of coaching ability.

My main concern with him is that Widdop is a shadow of the player he was in Melbourne. Of course, Bellamy, Cronk and co. are the differences here.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

I think your last point is interesting.
At Melbourne he was a terrific link man.
Great foil for Cronk and was an important cog in the Melbourne wheel.
He left Melbourne because he was ambitious and wanted to be the leader and run the show at St.George.
McGregor bought into that and since his arrival, he has been anointed as club captain.
So far so good and no one begrudges a player for wanting to go further in the game.
Unfortunately, he has not improved since his days at Melbourne.
He remains a good quality 5/8 and link man.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

I think your last point is interesting.
At Melbourne he was a terrific link man.
Great foil for Cronk and was an important cog in the Melbourne wheel.
He left Melbourne because he was ambitious and wanted to be the leader and run the show at St.George.
McGregor bought into that and since his arrival, he has been anointed as club captain.
So far so good and no one begrudges a player for wanting to go further in the game.
Unfortunately, he has not improved since his days at Melbourne.
He remains a good quality 5/8 and link man.

As indicated above, I'd argue that, except for the odd sequence of outstanding form, Widdop is nowhere near the same level as he was at Melbourne.

Bellamy, Cronk and Smith are the key points here; and any good five-eighth worth his salt is already a "good link man".

With better coaching and players in those essential ball handling positions, I have no doubts Widdop can resume his place as one of the game's elite players.

 

[giboz71]

In all honesty I think the biggest issue is coaching. When our power game doesn't work we start to play sideways. The bench is under utilized....Without Widdop we lose more games ..pretty simple. He is the least of our problems.

I agree but that's not the point.

Every premiership team in recent years has that one or two players that put's the team on his back and owns the result. Much like Morgan is doing for the Cows, Cronk and Smith for the Storm, JT for the Cows when he's playing. The Cows should be nowhere near the GF, they are missing their 2 best players and have a backline basically as slow as ours. They should have been outgunned in every game. But Morgan and to a lesser extent Taumalolo have refused to let them lose. They have put the result in their hands and delivered. No amount of coaching really helps with this, its all about heart and talent.

We have plenty of problems, not least of which is the coach, but which of our players can put the team on their back and deliver like Morgan has? Widdop? Duges? We certainly paid them to be those players, but they're just not capable. Neither come any where close to the players I have mentioned.

It's why we threw the kitchen sink at Ben Hunt and hopefully he can be that guy for us. Time will tell.