What’s this I am hearing?

[myrrh ken]

Gotta outline those articles from sporting news

https://outline.com/62xLuy

 

[Card Shark]

Bird is gone,end of story.
It's the club and coaches fault they are stuck with an overpaid and under performing fullback. If they had of stuck it out with Barba this would not of happened

Yes, it’s 1 thing Lyle did f**k up.

But so did Ben.

 

[Eion]

Bird is gone,end of story.
It's the club and coaches fault they are stuck with an overpaid and under performing fullback. If they had of stuck it out with Barba this would not of happened

You know he left right? After accepting the clubs offer.

 

[Defer to the coifed]

I think Holmes is being a coward too. I watched him run that ball back thurs night into the best defenders they had & he got slammed, no problems, hes always done that. Tough stuff.
But then the ball goes in the air, or its on the ground or he s asked to make a ball play. hes far can Shirken it, no doubt. I dont give a flying who his ex is shagging & Id say the same for the worlds best footballer , Ben Barba, if he shirked it the same way.

 

[Card Shark]

I dont give a flying who his ex is shagging

So is this his apparent “personal problem”?

I’d say you do give a flying, for elaborating on it!

 

[Stake Removed]

Get Tommy Bishop to listen to Holmes personel problems and let him give Holmes advice on how to handle it

 

[Frenzy.]

Of course Holmes is a footballer - but yes, he has a natural talent.

I think his head doesn’t match his ability - he lacks confidence.

I reckon as he matures, he will be fine. Could take a few more years though.

He lacks confidence yet is playing like a busted arsehole and is shitty he’s been sacked as fullback?

Sounds more like lack of insight, selfishness and over confidence.

 

[Griffoshark66]

Bring back peach!

Is he still rocking the sweet ponytail?

 

[carcharias]

Is he still rocking the sweet ponytail?

Yeah I think so
Him and Preston

I meant the other peach
Poor f**ker is on the bench

 

[Card Shark]

Came on & scored the match winning try last night, beating 3 defenders to get it down.

 

[carcharias]

Came on & scored the match winning try last night, beating 3 defenders to get it down.

Wasted

 

[Griffoshark66]

He'd walk into our backline.

 

[2012....Sharks Year]

Wasted

Even better talent if he did it wasted!

 

[Frank Discussion]

I stole this from the other forum. One of the boys over there did this breakdown so thanks to Burgess. Interesting reading. Now I am in no way saying that Val isn’t going like a busted ATM but it’s interesting to compare his career trajectory at age 22 with other elite fullbacks.


Here it is.


Here's a breakdown/comparison of some of the guys who have been considered the "NRL's best fullback" over the last 10-15 years, and what they were doing in the year they turned 22. Holmes is at or near the same point in his development as nearly everyone on that list, with Lockyer and Inglis being the only guys who you would have looked at when they were 21 as being clearly ahead of where Holmes is now (22 Slater was nowhere near the player 26 year old Slater was). The closest comparison in terms of timelines is Darius Boyd. If he turns into as good a player as Boyd that will be fine with me.

Ben Barba
19 yo - NYC (4 NRL games)
20 yo - NYC (4 NRL games
21 yo - NRL ... 21 games in utility role
22 yo - NRL ... First season a fullback with mixed results. Poor under the high ball. Was a lot better in the second half of the year
23 yo - NRL ... won Dally M

Billy Slater

19 yo - Qld Cup
20 yo - NRL debut at wing then centre. Was starting fullback by mid year
21 yo - State of Origin debut on the wing
22 yo - State of Origin starter at fullback
*
25 yo - Debuted for Australia at fullback

Darius Boyd
19yo - NRL ... full season mostly on the wing (8 games at fullback)
20yo - NRL ... full season split between wing/centre (5 games at fulback)
21yo - NRL ... full season split between wing/centre (3 games at fullback). Debuted for Qld and Australia on the wing.
22yo - NRL ... first full season as fullback (Dragons)
*
29yo - First games for Qld/Australia at fullback.

James Tedesco
19yo - Injured in NRL debut and missed the full season
20yo - Started on the wing but moved to fullback after Moltzen went down.
21yo - Played 8 NRL games and went down with another injury
22yo - First full season as NRL fullback
23yo - Debuted for NSW at fullback.

Greg Inglis
18yo - 13 NRL games covering wing/centre/fullback
19yo - 19 NRL games playing centre and fullback. Debuted for Qld and Australia on the wing
20yo - Full NRL season playing 5/8. Moved to centre in rep teams
21yo - 5/8 and centre
22yo - Moved to centres in the NRL
23yo - More centres
24yo - Moved to Souths - kept playing centres
25yo - First full season as NRL fullback. First game for Qld at fullback
26yo - First game for Australia at fullback

Anthony Minichiello
20yo - NRL debut and full NRL season on the wing
21yo - Full season on the wing
22yo - Full season on the wing
23yo - First full season at fullback. Debuted for NSW at fullback. Debuted for Australia on the wing
24yo - First games for Australia at fullback

Roger Tuivasa-Sheck
19yo - NYC and 6 NRL games on the wong
20yo - Full NRL season on the wing. Debuted for NZ on the wing
21yo - Full NRL season on the wing.
22yo - First NRL seaon at fullback. First games for NZ at fullback

Darren Lockyer
18yo - Qld Cup. 11 ARL games as a utility
19yo - 20 ARL games as a utility
20yo - First full season at fullback (Super League). Debuted for Qld at fullback. Debuted for Australia on the bench. Was starting fullback later in the year.
*
22yo - Superstar

Jarryd Hayne
18yo - 16 NRL games on the wing
19yo - First half of the seaon at wing. Took over fullback at the end of the season after injury to Luke Burt. Debuted for NSW and Australia on the wing.
20yo - Splut time between centre/wing/fullback (mostly centre)
21yo - Started the season at 5/8, then centre. Was fullback from round 9 onwards. Won Dally M
22yo - First full NRL season at fullback. First games for NSW at fullback

****

Valentine Holmes
19yo - NYC and 6 NRL games on the wing
20yo - Full NRL season on the wing (4 games at fullback)
21yo - Full NRL season on the wing. Debuted for Australia on the wing
22yo - First full season as NRL fullback. Debuted for Qld on the wing

 

[Card Shark]

That’s about what I expected to read, we do expect a fair bit from him, probably because we have seen him do some awesome things.

Trouble is, there is a massive difference between his best & worst.

I’d say he’s gone to fullback a year or 2 too early.

 

[2012....Sharks Year]

That’s about what I expected to read, we do expect a fair bit from him, probably because we have seen him do some awesome things.

Trouble is, there is a massive difference between his best & worst.

I’d say he’s gone to fullback a year or 2 too early.

That was forced on the Sharks by Benny's departure Cardy......probably would still be on the wing if Benny kept his shit together. Having said that and despite being a fan of Val.....Dugan is a better option for now. Val needs to start enjoying his footy again by doing what he does best on the Wing.

 

[Card Shark]

I agree 100%.

I was in favour of giving him another game to right the wrongs of round 1.

However now Flanno made the tough call to move him, he needs to spend the year there...& we need to get him the ball !!

 

[RUBIKS]

Holmes has had a year at fullback and his game did not improve, against someone comparable in age Munster who when moved to fullback handled the situation.

Honestly when Holmes chimes in from fullback the defence basically knows all he will do is run, his passing game is no good, he has no short kicking game, the defence basically just holds it line

Wouldn't that be on the Coach?

Flanno hasn't been able to develop any player in the back line.

 

[carcharias]

Wouldn't that be on the Coach?

Flanno hasn't been able to develop any player in the back line.

Well dunno about that


Val - nothing to premiership and state and Australia
Bird - nothing to premiership and state - pms XIII - indigenous all stars
Feki - nothing to premiership and Tonga
Chad - nothing to premiership and city nsw
Ricky - nothing to premiership and Samoa

All under Flano

 

[RUBIKS]

Well dunno about that


Val - nothing to premiership and state and Australia
Bird - nothing to premiership and state - pms XIII - indigenous all stars
Feki - nothing to premiership and Tonga
Chad - nothing to premiership and city nsw
Ricky - nothing to premiership and Samoa

All under Flano

If by nothing, you mean handing them their debut? Then sure.

All players mentioned are as good now (or worse) as the day they debuted. Their games have not evolved at all, their skills have not evolved at all, the first two were already highly skilled before they got their start and all of them would not be premiership winners without Ennis, Maloney and Barba.