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What if...

El Diablo

Post Whore
Messages
94,107
..Penrith had lost?

Whay was Gallop at Penrith with the shield when there was no certainty as to Penrith winning it?

Seems very odd to me.
 

Raider_69

Post Whore
Messages
61,174
El Duque said:
..Penrith had lost?

Whay was Gallop at Penrith with the shield when there was no certainty as to Penrith winning it?

Seems very odd to me.

i also thought it be be a bit strange, but they cant be 2 places at once and Penrith were the best chances......

they would have looked foolish should penrith have lost
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

El Diablo

Post Whore
Messages
94,107
Raider_69 said:
El Duque said:
..Penrith had lost?

Whay was Gallop at Penrith with the shield when there was no certainty as to Penrith winning it?

Seems very odd to me.

i also thought it be be a bit strange, but they cant be 2 places at once and Penrith were the best chances......

they would have looked foolish should penrith have lost
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

It matters little they were the best chance as I feel it only can lead to people to think strange things about the game and any dubious ref decisions.
 

Misty Bee

First Grade
Messages
7,082
I remember when we won the minor premiership, we didn't get the shield until Grand Final day!
 

Anonymous

Juniors
Messages
46
Gallop would have positioned himself at the best possible possie for the minor premiership.

But there are duplicate shields. One is in St George Leagues Club.
I'm only guessing here but there might have been a backup at the Roosters/Raiders game with another official.
 

Anonymous

Juniors
Messages
46
Misty Bee said:
I remember when we won the minor premiership, we didn't get the shield until Grand Final day!

The JJ Giltinan Shield should be the premiership shield again. We are leading to a generation of supporters who'll think the Shield is second-rate.
 

El Diablo

Post Whore
Messages
94,107
Misty Bee said:
I remember when we won the minor premiership, we didn't get the shield until Grand Final day!

I believe we got it after a game v the Nothern Eagles in 2001.
 

TeamSatan

Juniors
Messages
1,121
The raiders roosters finished 45 minuites before the panthers flogged parra.
What do you want them to do, stand on the field or lock in the crowd till the other game is over.

The right decision was made thats all that matters.
 

El Diablo

Post Whore
Messages
94,107
TeamSatan said:
The raiders roosters finished 45 minuites before the panthers flogged parra.
What do you want them to do, stand on the field or lock in the crowd till the other game is over.

The right decision was made thats all that matters.

I know it finished before but that's got diddly squat to do withthe topic.

If Penrith had lost what the hell would've happened?
 

Grantwhy

Juniors
Messages
1,285
El Duque said:
TeamSatan said:
The raiders roosters finished 45 minuites before the panthers flogged parra.
What do you want them to do, stand on the field or lock in the crowd till the other game is over.

The right decision was made thats all that matters.

I know it finished before but that's got diddly squat to do withthe topic.

If Penrith had lost what the hell would've happened?

They would of either presented it during the week (make a media event of it)

or

They would of presented it to the Minor Premier after their game next week.

and the facts that 1) Penrith was playing The Eels and 2) that 45 minute time difference between the finish of the Raiders/Roosters game is not diddly squat ;-)
 

Southernsaint

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,228
It's a shame when the shield that was once the greatest prize in Rugby League & was bled for by people such as Provan, Sattler, Raper & Piggins has been superceded by a 6 year old trophy made in "honour" of a Telco...

That's "progress" for you...

Cheers,
Ben S.
 

trevorm

Juniors
Messages
45
El Duque said:
Raider_69 said:
El Duque said:
..Penrith had lost?

Whay was Gallop at Penrith with the shield when there was no certainty as to Penrith winning it?

Seems very odd to me.

i also thought it be be a bit strange, but they cant be 2 places at once and Penrith were the best chances......

they would have looked foolish should penrith have lost
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

It matters little they were the best chance as I feel it only can lead to people to think strange things about the game and any dubious ref decisions.

Oh here we go the conspiracy theoryists again. Cause you had a player sent off.
 

Frenzy

Juniors
Messages
998
Willow said:
Misty Bee said:
I remember when we won the minor premiership, we didn't get the shield until Grand Final day!

The JJ Giltinan Shield should be the premiership shield again. We are leading to a generation of supporters who'll think the Shield is second-rate.

Willow, I think you'll find it has basically gone back to what it was before we even had finals. The JJG sheild has been around since the days when first past the post WERE the premiers so in a way it is now serving it's original function :)
 

Anonymous

Juniors
Messages
46
Frenzy said:
Willow said:
Misty Bee said:
I remember when we won the minor premiership, we didn't get the shield until Grand Final day!

The JJ Giltinan Shield should be the premiership shield again. We are leading to a generation of supporters who'll think the Shield is second-rate.

Willow, I think you'll find it has basically gone back to what it was before we even had finals. The JJG sheild has been around since the days when first past the post WERE the premiers so in a way it is now serving it's original function :)
Ummm no.
It was fixed up to include all premiers but didnt come into being until 1951. In 1951, we had a grand final.
It was introduced when the great man and RL pioneer James J Giltinan shuffled off this mortal coil (soon after the 1950 Ashes winning Test match). We had semi-finals and a grand final in 1951 and 1952 and then a Final in 1953.

btw, Grand Finals became compulsory in 1954 but we had quite a few grand finals and finals beforehand. It wasnt always first past the post... thats a misconception.
 

Southernsaint

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,228
There was a whole system of convoluted "Right To Challenge" matches for defending premiers & what-not, wasn't there?! A finals series followed by a Grand Final is the superior system for Rugby League in my opinion.

Cheers,
Ben S.
 

Anonymous

Juniors
Messages
46
Thats right. Once upon a time the Minor Premiers had the right to challenge the winner of the final. It wasn't a great system because it only ensured that the MP would be there at the end whether they won or lost - it reduced the incentive for them win first up. They tried this system firstly in 1930 and Saints won the Final but were beaten by Wests in the return 'grand final'. If these finals had of been played under the previous years rules, Saints would have been Premiers in 1930. Ironically, they put the new finals system on ice after Wests were bundled out in similar fashion a few years later.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is from the SOTV Dragons history site (a pop up window in the Statistics section):

To win an Australian Rugby League Grand Final is widely regarded as the greatest prize of all. It comes on the back of the toughest competition in the world and only then after a gruelling semi final struggle. For a team to make it to a grand final is a monumental effort in itself. To then win a grand final defies the laws of gravity. In modern Rugby League, there is no greater achievement.

Prior to 'grand finals', premierships were decided by the minor premiers (competition leader) or by a playoff 'final'.

The first 'grand final' was contested between Easts and Glebe in 1911 but this was little more than a return match of the previous week's final.

The next grand final in 1930 was more legitimate. Contested between Wests and St George, the 1930 grand final was preceded by a four team semi-finals series. In previous years, 'preliminary' final winners, St George would have been declared the season champions but they were defeated by Wests in the grand final and Saints were denied their first premiership.

Nevertheless, the new system was flawed and three seasons later, grand finals were dropped. In 1933, the NSWRL re-installed a decider by way of the less competitive 'final'.

In 1942, the competition had its 5th grand final when once again, the preliminary final winners St George were defeated, this time by Canterbury.

The newly introduced system involved having a minor semi final plus a major semi final (the winner advancing to the grand final) followed by a preliminary final (to decide the other grand finalist).This was successful and was retained for a number of years.

During this period, only 1945, 1950 and 1953 discarded the need for grand finals. The variations in the semi finals often being brought about by circumstances.

It wasn't until 1954 that the grand final became compulsory with a top four semi-final race.

In 1973, this was altered to a top five system.

In 1995, the expanding competition saw the introduction of the top eight (reduced to top seven in 1997 during the Super League conflict).

Including the 1911 encounter, there have been a total of 62 'grand finals'. The Dragons, with 26 grand final appearances are twice that of their nearest rivals, Canterbury who have appeared in 13 grand finals.

In all, the Dragons have contested nearly half of all Grand Finals - an astounding achievement.
 

Caged Panther

First Grade
Messages
5,157
Southernsaint said:
It's a shame when the shield that was once the greatest prize in Rugby League & was bled for by people such as Provan, Sattler, Raper & Piggins has been superceded by a 6 year old trophy made in "honour" of a Telco...

That's "progress" for you...

Cheers,
Ben S.

In general I would think you'll find people look past the whole "telstra premiership trophy" name and appreciate it for the image of summons and provens that makes up the trophy. And that image most certainly has more than 6 years behind it.
 

Anonymous

Juniors
Messages
46
Frenzy said:
Well in that case I stand very much corrected. THanks for that info Willow.
Not at all mate. I used to think the same thing once. Afterall JJ Giltinan was one of the game's founders in 1908 and all the premiers are on the shield so its understandable to draw that conclusion.

Interesting story is that when Australia won the Ashes in 1950 (the one were Ron Roberts scored the historic winning try), James Giltinan was there at the SCG and said how happy he was to be alive to see the Ashes won - it was big deal because GB had retained the Ashes for something like 30 years. Hard to imagine now.

Anyway, the story goes that Giltinan, aged 84 died a few weeks later a very happy man because Australia had turned around a generation of loss.

The next year, the NSWRL introduced the JJ Giltinan Shield and the 1951 premiers were presented with it after winning that year's grand final.
 
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