What's unfolding on twitter?

[PacificCoastRL]

To me.... looking back on what has gone on..... I do think he was justified (at the time I also had doubts about his ethics).......the USARL was a rebel organisation and not recognised by the International Federation..That is what people do not seem to grasp.


IF Nui gave into demands to select players from a rebel competition this could have caused problems for the game world wide.Any clubs could have formed a break away competition in any country and expected to recieve the same status as the official body.

The game would have been in turmoil with every Tom Dick and Harry claiming to represnt the nation.

The USARL nor anybody else was claiming to represent the US. It was Niu's team - everyone knew that. As has been stated many times - Niu selected players from everywhere except the USARL. Nobody else was claiming to represent the US because players under their jurisdiction were playing for the Tomahawks. Is this your opinion on the matter or did someone tell you this was the reason no USARL players were invited to tryout for the Tomahawks?

 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Now we are talking what is best for the USA .... rather than blaming one man.....its good to talk and everyone has his/ her own opinion.

USA in the world cup finals...could be massive for the game......did Nui stick by what he believed in YES.

You make it seem like what he achieved was amazing. Whilst great for the game, the Tomahawks qualified in by far the easiest group of the qualifiers using a load of Aussie ringers instead of their own players they're supposed to "believe in". Would a purely AMNRL team have made it through? Did he believe in them?

Did the USARL really think about what the split would do to the game in such an important time...????

They should be eligible because they're American, not because they play in the AMNRL. It's Nui that needs to think about things and hopefully the RLIF will make him.
Him being in charge of the officially recognised NGB does not mean he can be a bully.

Dont get me wrong...I have read a lot about what is happening over the pond but give the guy some credit.....he had a vision and now its come to fruition........he stuck by what he believed was right despite the whole world and its dog calling for him to step away.

Sometimes people need to recognise when the reigns need to be passed over, even if it is something they created. He's received plenty of credit for what he's done for the game in the past, but he's in the process of undoing it all now. Being great once doesn't make you immune from criticism.

I dont think the USARL guys will be exempt from the WC team ( if they are good enough) but the founder and pioneer of the game in the states has made a statement and proberbly for the first time DELIVERED what he promised.

Why don't you think they'll be exempt? Surely if Nui sticks to what he believes in, they'll still be exempt? He can't have it both ways.
If you think it's because the RLIF will force his hand, then doesn't that say something about his beliefs?

Give Nui credit for what has gone on over the last ten or twelve years.....dont knock him for the last two or three.

Like I said earlier, being great once before doesn't make you immune from criticism.

The issue I have with your opinion YANTO is that you're really justifying it when it's put into question. You're simply just repeating it. I and others have questioned it. Do you care to follow these up as I will happily follow up any you have for me?

 

[deluded pom?]

Vassy
tired of the RLIF giving the AMNRL the run around.All we've done is win and do what we've said we were going to do,no lies,all transparancy.
Time for some people to get told the real story and from people who have been involved with this mickey mouse comp over here...
Instead of encouraging and being happy for Dave Niu and the AMNRL for making the world cup, we get threatened with not being involved....
I'm fed up with this shit and how my mates get treated, I'm about ready to walk away without any regrets,thx for the opportunities Niuy....

You couldn't make it up if you tried. This BS from a Hull lad too. I hang my head in shame. Anyone know who the Camacs are? I got fed up of all the bootlicking from Butch and his crew when they are on Niu's twitter account.

 

[deluded pom?]

You make it seem like what he achieved was amazing. Whilst great for the game, the Tomahawks qualified in by far the easiest group of the qualifiers using a load of Aussie ringers

Don't forget they also had the long rest between games whereas the Jamaicans and Saffers had to back up twice over four days.

 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Don't forget they also had the long rest between games whereas the Jamaicans and Saffers had to back up twice over four days.

Exactly. Nui could afford to be stubborn as his side were the favourites and he called up a lot of ringers.

Had it been a more difficult group, I aren't sure he would have made the same decision.

 

[magpie_man]

nui's exclusion of usarl players for the tomahawks, for mine, is similar to the ideology behind the aru snubbing overseas-based union players from wallaby-selection: he is simply protecting his organisation - one which he likely has a vested interest in, judging by the claims in this thread of the time and money that he has sunk into the amnrl. if wallaby selection was opened up, we'd see a mass exodus of australian-based union players to bigger contracts in europe, damaging the game in australia. similarly, if tomahawk selection was opened-up, we'd likely see an exodus of players and perhaps even clubs to what appears to be the stronger, more professionally-run and more autonomous usarl, damaging and perhaps destroying the amnrl.
if this is the case, one can understand, albeit not justify, nui's actions or, rather, reactions.

 

[Choo Choo]

Just a few facts and comments from someone who is in the USA and has knowledge of the situation.

1) Did Nui jumpstart RL in the USA? Yes
2) Do Nui and a select few control all aspects of the AMNRL and the Tomahawks? Yes
3) Did Nui respond to an open letter in Dec 2010 by concerned team seeking clarity on AMNRL funding and operations? No
4) Based on the nonreponsiveness, did these teams decide to create a democratic USARL for 2011 and beyond independent from the AMNRL? Yes
5) Was the inaugural 2011 USARL season successful? Yes
6) Has the USARL been open and transparent? Yes
7) Did USARL teams openly state that all of their players were available for Tomahawks selection without conditions? Yes
8) Were any USARL players contacted for Tomahawks tryouts? No, not officially
9) Were any USARL players selected for the Tomahawks? No
10) Did USARL representatives attend the WC qualifiers to support RL in the USA? Yes
11) Did the Tomahawks quality for the WC? Yes, and best of luck to them.

The big thing that bugs me is the comment that the USARL should have waited until after the WC to break away and start our own league. This makes no sense as this would not guarantee that players will be selected to the Tomahawks. You can argue that they were eligible, but this in no way correlates to selection to the squad.

Bottom line guys, we weren't happy or getting the answers we wanted, so we did what we felt was in the best interest for our respective clubs and RL in general.

 

[Play some footy]

Obviously the AMNRL currently control the USA national team, that's not exactly a revelation. But that doesn't mean it's an AMNRL select team, it's supposed to represent the USA, not the AMNRL. It's nobody's right to exclude players based on the competition they play in. Your ideas are all over the place.

out of curiosity usarl folks - which "american" born players from this comp would have made the usa side? i know there are a couple of ex pats that would have had a chance, but regardless, even if the tomahawks included the usarl players i can see selections being almost exactly the same

i think i counted 5 amnrl players in the 17 man roster for the jamaican qualifier

 

[Choo Choo]

out of curiosity usarl folks - which "american" born players from this comp would have made the usa side? i know there are a couple of ex pats that would have had a chance, but regardless, even if the tomahawks included the usarl players i can see selections being almost exactly the same

i think i counted 5 amnrl players in the 17 man roster for the jamaican qualifier

John Young, Asa Jearld, Tonga Fanueli, Seta Polomo, and Jaron McLaurin should have at least gotten an invite to a training camp. I agree that selections might have been the same, but these guys definitely deserved a look.

 

[juro]

I guess you could have added Apple Pope to that list. If selection had been open, he surely would have played for the Axemen for the 2011 USARL season....

 

[deal.with.it]

I believe the Camac's are Niu's inlaws. So Butch and Mike are the brothers of Niu's wife.
Yeah can't believe Vassy's comment about transparency.
I mean, obviously there are things that the USARL are keeping quiet about, especially in the latest USARL article on the 2011 season. THere were obviously negatives of the season, but these weren't reported. And you can't blame them for keeping some things quiet. But the AMNRL and their transparency is in a completely different universe.
Niu's main argument about the split is that the talent is now diluted, and the games are not as high quality. My question to the USARL guys (Choo Choo), how many new players do you think played rugby league this year? Including the players on the new teams. I would have a guess and say about 50.
The talent might be diluted (aka the best players aren't playing for a handful of teams), but 50 new players in a season - that's incredible.

 

[Bluebags1908]

That's because one team represents BARLA and one team represents the Summer Conference leagues. Neither are national sides. There is absolutely no comparison at all. Like I said earlier, you don't seem to have any sort of grasp of how international sport operates.
God forbid he gives into the 'demands' that things be run democratically...

Regardless of the status of the competition, there is absolutely no justification for excluding players based on the club they play for. Niu included players from divisions outside America, and even included a number of players who are currently unattached and don't play for any club. The only players who were excluded were those from the USARL comp. Every other eligible player in the world was considered for selection. It's not a AMNRL rep team, it is an international team representing the USA. This has already been pointed out to you.

Bashing up David Niu and the AMNRL for not selecting USARL players for the Tomahawks is a bit rich. What the hell was the AMNRL supposed to do? A rebel organisation broke away from them at their own free will and in doing so knew very well that players aligned to the USARL will not be selected for the Tomahawks.

I wish both organisations the very best as they both promote Rugby League, and I also wish they will come to a reconciliation. I also realise that the USARL did not take the breakaway decision lightly and am sure they have perfectly legitimate and genuine reasons in doing so. I also agree that perhaps the AMNRL is not the most professionally run organisation and are not without their own major faults.

But carrying on like David Niu and the AMNRL are akin to the devil ignores the fact that in every country, EVERY TIME a split has occured both organisations have historically excluded players from opposing or rebel competitions from rep teams:

In the 1960's there were two organisations in South Africa - the National Ruigby League (NRL) and Rugby League South Africa (RLSA). RLSA played a series against the touring Great Britain Lions in 1962 whilst at the same time the NRL hosted a tour from Wakefield Trinity. South Africa RLSA team also tourned Australia & New Zealand with rebel players excluded. If you don't believe me see this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rugby_league_in_South_Africa#Another_attempt_-_1960s

In Italy this year, players from the rebel group were excluded.

During the Super League war, the ARL excluded Super League players from the 1995 World Cup, and Super League did the same when they played in 1997.

In 1996 Australia played the Papua New Guinea Palais (not the Kumuls) - a rebel group aligned to the ARL.

During the 1990's there were two organisations in Japan, Fiji, and Tonga as well. A split also occured in Russia in the mid-2000's.Japan played Lebanon in Tokyo in 1998 minus players from the rebel organisation.

So what the AMNRL is doing is hardly new, and quite frankly they have no choice but to exclude players from the rebel organisation, so I don't think they deserve to be looked upon akin to the devil when the USARL broke away knowing full well the consequences and whilst RLIF recognises the AMNRL as the official body. If the shoe was on the other foot and the RLIF suddenly gives the USARL official status do you think the USARL will pick AMNRL players?

I hope both groups continue to expand and grow their competitons and hope one day they will come together or even form two NFL-style 'conferences' under the one banner and play a Super Bowl and conference All-Stars games at the end of the season.

 

[yakstorm]

What you're saying is true Bluebag, and to be perfectly honest anyone who is running a sports club/organisation or whatever will always look after their own first, and I guess in a way you can't blame them, they will want to use their 'competitive advantage' to help boost them.

What is a shame is that the RLEF/RLIF couldn't have done to the USA what they did for Russia for the past two seasons, and that was to form a selection committee above the warring factions (in Russia there were more than 2 different organisations) to pick the USA team.

Whilst it wouldn't have made much different to the make up for the final team (lets be honest, the ex-pats would have been picked regardless of whether it was an AMNRL team, a USARL team or a combined team), it at least would have given the USARL players a chance and stopped a lot of the complaints.

As a game we can't afford for either league to die in the States, hopefully they get back together, or at least allow each other to prosper and grow.

 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Bashing up David Niu and the AMNRL for not selecting USARL players for the Tomahawks is a bit rich. What the hell was the AMNRL supposed to do? A rebel organisation broke away from them at their own free will and in doing so knew very well that players aligned to the USARL will not be selected for the Tomahawks.

I wish both organisations the very best as they both promote Rugby League, and I also wish they will come to a reconciliation. I also realise that the USARL did not take the breakaway decision lightly and am sure they have perfectly legitimate and genuine reasons in doing so. I also agree that perhaps the AMNRL is not the most professionally run organisation and are not without their own major faults.

But carrying on like David Niu and the AMNRL are akin to the devil ignores the fact that in every country, EVERY TIME a split has occured both organisations have historically excluded players from opposing or rebel competitions from rep teams:

In the 1960's there were two organisations in South Africa - the National Ruigby League (NRL) and Rugby League South Africa (RLSA). RLSA played a series against the touring Great Britain Lions in 1962 whilst at the same time the NRL hosted a tour from Wakefield Trinity. South Africa RLSA team also tourned Australia & New Zealand with rebel players excluded. If you don't believe me see this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rugby_league_in_South_Africa#Another_attempt_-_1960s

In Italy this year, players from the rebel group were excluded.

During the Super League war, the ARL excluded Super League players from the 1995 World Cup, and Super League did the same when they played in 1997.

In 1996 Australia played the Papua New Guinea Palais (not the Kumuls) - a rebel group aligned to the ARL.

During the 1990's there were two organisations in Japan, Fiji, and Tonga as well. A split also occured in Russia in the mid-2000's.Japan played Lebanon in Tokyo in 1998 minus players from the rebel organisation.

So what the AMNRL is doing is hardly new, and quite frankly they have no choice but to exclude players from the rebel organisation, so I don't think they deserve to be looked upon akin to the devil when the USARL broke away knowing full well the consequences and whilst RLIF recognises the AMNRL as the official body. If the shoe was on the other foot and the RLIF suddenly gives the USARL official status do you think the USARL will pick AMNRL players?

I hope both groups continue to expand and grow their competitons and hope one day they will come together or even form two NFL-style 'conferences' under the one banner and play a Super Bowl and conference All-Stars games at the end of the season.

All very good points.

However, just because it's happened in the past doesn't make it right. The game has hopefully moved on enough now into a more professional era where these kinds of petty squabbles shouldn't be an issue.

And in regards to if the boot was on the other foot, if the RLIF were to give USARL power, then yeah I think they are professional and dignified enough to pick anyone available. They are confident enough in their own league and policies that they don't need to take a cheap upper hand in using the national team as a reason to join them. The AMNRL clearly aren't, and the only reason anyone would want to join them would be for that possibility.

 

[Choo Choo]

IMy question to the USARL guys (Choo Choo), how many new players do you think played rugby league this year? Including the players on the new teams. I would have a guess and say about 50.
The talent might be diluted (aka the best players aren't playing for a handful of teams), but 50 new players in a season - that's incredible.

I'd say 50-60 would be a fair assessment considering we had three new teams enter the comp as well as a few new guys on existing teams.

 

[Bucks County Sharks]

My question to the USARL guys (Choo Choo), how many new players do you think played rugby league this year? Including the players on the new teams. I would have a guess and say about 50.
The talent might be diluted (aka the best players aren't playing for a handful of teams), but 50 new players in a season - that's incredible.

The Sharks had no fewer then 25 new players come and play their first game of league this season. At one game this year in NYC we traveled with 35 players.

It was a thing of beauty...

 

[Choo Choo]

The Sharks had no fewer then 25 new players come and play their first game of league this season. At one game this year in NYC we traveled with 35 players.

It was a thing of beauty...

Seriously, well done!

 

[deal.with.it]

Well done to Bucks County!
With these sorts of numbers, there really could be a good dozen teams with a reserve grade, if the comps were to combine.
Next all you need to do is add an under 18s team, and bam! thats some serious development in the USA!
5 years down the track, who knows?

 

[Evil Homer]

All very good points.

However, just because it's happened in the past doesn't make it right. The game has hopefully moved on enough now into a more professional era where these kinds of petty squabbles shouldn't be an issue.

And in regards to if the boot was on the other foot, if the RLIF were to give USARL power, then yeah I think they are professional and dignified enough to pick anyone available. They are confident enough in their own league and policies that they don't need to take a cheap upper hand in using the national team as a reason to join them. The AMNRL clearly aren't, and the only reason anyone would want to join them would be for that possibility.

Spot on. You see people talking about the Super League war, but that was a split between two extremely rich and powerful factions of businessmen with massive amounts of money involved and the players that were excluded were full-time professionals. In the USA, it's a bunch of amateur players being excluded from the national side seemingly for no other reason than because one man is unwilling to relinquish power for the greater good. The situations aren't comparable at all. Claiming that Niu had no choice other than to exclude players is BS.

 

[Lone Ranger]

The Sharks had no fewer then 25 new players come and play their first game of league this season. At one game this year in NYC we traveled with 35 players.

It was a thing of beauty...

How many will you be taking to Atlanta? Were the Sharks or Eagles aware that Atlanta was joining the comp the season and how do you budget for an expense like this? Is the AMNRL paying for all fares?

Looking at the USARL clubs it seems that a number of the clubs have sponsors that pay for travel but I do not have the feeling the AMNRL operate on the same budget. Thank you.