Where Will The Panthers Finish In 2018?

[OldPanther]

Mansour is the slower winger. Whare the slower centre. So putting Whare/DWZ together splits the speed up too

Most teams have a good side and weaker side. Roosters went top 4 with their right side being the dominant last year. Only let down in the end by their forwards.

 

[franklin2323]

Most teams have a good side and weaker side. Roosters went top 4 with their right side being the dominant last year. Only let down in the end by their forwards.

They also lost a Prelim Final when they played 2 second rowers in the centres to cover that

 

[OldPanther]

They also lost a Prelim Final when they played 2 second rowers in the centres to cover that

Yeah the Roosters depth was/is horrid. I've heard many Roosters fans complain about it. They didn't lose because they had a dominant edge though. 1 or 2 injuries kill them. We don't have that problem as bad.

 

[mxlegend99]

Stop right there. We had lots and lots of time in the red zone. In fact, in spite of finishing 7th we managed to have the worst conversion percentage of any team, including the team that came last. The halves have to step up and take responsibility. Hooks "structures" as you out it, got us to the red zone plenty of times. The players then have to play what's in front of them. They didn't. Hook has to take responsibility for that and so do the halves.

Our entire structure was playing flat and removing our backline from the equation. When you get to the 10m line you suddenly run out of space to do that.

So now you expect the players to take responsibility for the coach having no set plays for them? The halves can only do as they're told and can only wotk within the structure given. Hook kept axing our 5/8ths... and they were always the one trying something different.

Thurston and Cronk could be our halves and if the team has been coached and instructed to play a certain way, there's only so much they can do. Good halves still require the players around them doing as the coach instructed. Its just up to them to decide which players to use as decoys. Which guys to actually get the ball to and so on.

We have the worst red zone attack as you put it and you think its the players not the coach? Those same players as you said got themselves up the field. But when the coach handcuffs the options in the attacking territory and doesnt have any set plays... the points only come if there's a basic missed tackle.

In your mind, these youngsters are already better than 200 game veterans. You are confusing potential with ability. Nobody thinks for a minute that Cleary can't be better than Walsh, but as of right now he hasn't got a team to second and he hasn't played 120 first grade games. He is potentially better, hopefully this season he will step up and create more for the team. Its great that he scores individual tries as well, but its his ability to organise the attack that will see him become a great player, not just a good player. Stop putting pressure on him and let him learn his trade.

Wow. Youre saying Luke Walsh is a better halfback than Nathan Cleary. Deadset give yourself an uppercut. Thats the dumbest thing ever posted on these message boards... and there are Broncos fans trying to defend Matt Lodge ffs.

We're looking at having to fork out $1m+ to kedp Cleary. Yet not one club ever tried to sign Walsh from us and the club he was at before is happily released him.

Games played is not linked to how good a player is. 200 game veterans can often be burned out and nowhere near as good as they were early in their careers. Look at our roster in 2017... outside of 3 or 4 players dveryone of them was worse than they were in 2016. How can that possibly be when they had an extra ~20 games at the start of the season?

Tupou and Fergo are average? If you say so. Their premiership medals, Australian and NSW jumpers would say different. Playing for NZ like DWZ has, is not as hard as playing for Australia. I have no doubt he wouldn't get a jumper if he was an Australian, he just isn't good enough. Mansour is boss, no argument.

Daniel Tupou lost his rep jerseys 3 years ago because he was exposed as being average as f**k. Blake Ferguson lost his Australian spot for the same reason and hopefully his NSW spot.

Good coaches and teams make players look like superstars. Fergo and Tupou are one example. You need not look any further than the Storm and some of the average wingers Bellamy has made look like superstars. Only to be exposed at other clubs or in rep footy as deadset shit. Manly did the same aswell.

DWZ at Roosters, Storm or Manly a few years back would be talked up as a superstar. He's certainly better than the likes of Steve Turner, Anthony Quinn, David Williams, Daniel Tupou etc.

I actually think Blake Ferguson and Dallin Watene-Zelezniak are cut from the same cloth really. Fergo in his younger days was much the same as DWZ. Aggressive . Error prone. Flashes of brilliance big and strong with just enough speed. The difference is Fergo has tried to chase premiership success. And failed... he has not won a premiership. But he has chosen clubs that use their backs well.

 

[mxlegend99]

Mansour is the slower winger. Whare the slower centre. So putting Whare/DWZ together splits the speed up too

On the other hand when Blake or DWZ made a break the other was there in support.

Split them up and they lose a guy fast enough to support them.

 

[mxlegend99]

Oh and heres a recent thread in the Roosters forum about Ferguson. They are singing a different tune about him

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/threads/blake-ferguson.467760/

Not necessarily negative as such. But certainly not convinced on where he fits in.

 

[Pomoz]

Our entire structure was playing flat and removing our backline from the equation. When you get to the 10m line you suddenly run out of space to do that.

So now you expect the players to take responsibility for the coach having no set plays for them? The halves can only do as they're told and can only wotk within the structure given. Hook kept axing our 5/8ths... and they were always the one trying something different.

We have the worst red zone attack as you put it and you think its the players not the coach?

Ok, I can see the problem here. You don't actually read all the words. This is what I wrote "Hook has to take responsibility for that and so do the halves". I think that's pretty clear. It means both are responsible. The players are not blameless. Except in your head.

Wow. Youre saying Luke Walsh is a better halfback than Nathan Cleary. Deadset give yourself an uppercut. Thats the dumbest thing ever posted on these message boards... and there are Broncos fans trying to defend Matt Lodge ffs.

First of all, why do you have to be so bloody rude? I mean really, you call what I say dumb and you come on here saying a 19 year old halfback and a rookie fullback is a good enough spine to be top four. Just because you disagree why be so insulting? You think Cleary is the messiah, I don't. He may be if he gets the chance. I suspect, Ash Taylor will turn out to be a much better player and Cleary is more like Mitchell Pearce, but only time will tell. We just don't know what a few games and some coaching will do. It's what makes sport exciting.

Games played is not linked to how good a player is. 200 game veterans can often be burned out and nowhere near as good as they were early in their careers. Look at our roster in 2017... outside of 3 or 4 players dveryone of them was worse than they were in 2016. How can that possibly be when they had an extra ~20 games at the start of the season?

If you can find the quote where I sad that, then I will happily concede it was a stupid comment. I believe what I have actually said, repeatedly, is that more games help improve players. When you are in a very demanding position like halfback, it takes time to develop the skills and knowledge to master the position. There have been a number of studies done about how practice, including playing more games when it comes to sport, can improve a players performance by up to 18%. For your reference, the study is- Deliberate Practice and Performance in Music, Games, Sports, Education, and Professions: A Meta-Analysis
Author Brooke N. MacnamaraDavid Z. Hambrick, Frederick L. Oswald.

An 18% improvement might explain how a young 18 year old Alexander wasn't as good as the 26 year old who lifted the Premiership trophy in 91. Or how the Bulldogs let JT go only to see him turn into a future immortal.
How far along the "improve by 18%" curve is Cleary? We don't know. What we do know is that halfbacks don't tend to feature in Grand finals until they are in their mid 20's (Reynold's was 24). Perhaps that is a guide to say it takes a few years of playing to develop the skills to be good enough.

Your point that too many games can also burn players out is equally true, but not expected when talking about a 19 year old Cleary.

 

[Kilkenny]

Seriously when you look at over squad, particularly those have played in the NRL, we do remain a very young and inexperienced side in comparison to many other sides. At a glance of those who have debuted our played have made the following appearances; Edwards - 17, Mansour - 102, Peachy - 92, Blake - 62, DWZ - 76, Maloney - 203, Cleary - 41, Merrin - 180, Yeo - 82, Kikau - 9, RCG - 70, Wallace - 231, Tamou - 196, McKendry - 145, JFH - 38, CHN - 22, Leota - 14. Other who may not figure this week include Browne 103, Katoa - 13, May - 9, Phillips - 6 and Dean Whare 107. Hopefully, given many of this side have been together under Anthony Griffin for the past two it is reasonable to expect players will improve as an individual and the team performances should improve overall. We also have a number of fringe players waiting in the wings who clearly will make the grade at NRL level and one or two may go on to because future stars.

Unless we have a run of incredible bad luck, particularly, injuries then it is entirely reasonable we should improve our on field performances this season and play a better quality of footy. If we don't, do not have excuses such as injuries to key players and the like, well the coach surely has to go and someone else be giving the job in 2019.

I do think we will improve considerably in 2018, but I am also expecting other sides to improve considerable as well. I think it will be a significant achievement if we can again finish again the top eight, most likely to be in the 5 - 8 spots but playing much better overall in doing so. Fingers crossed.

 

[franklin2323]

Seriously when you look at over squad, particularly those have played in the NRL, we do remain a very young and inexperienced side in comparison to many other sides. At a glance of those who have debuted our played have made the following appearances; Edwards - 17, Mansour - 102, Peachy - 92, Blake - 62, DWZ - 76, Maloney - 203, Cleary - 41, Merrin - 180, Yeo - 82, Kikau - 9, RCG - 70, Wallace - 231, Tamou - 196, McKendry - 145, JFH - 38, CHN - 22, Leota - 14. Other who may not figure this week include Browne 103, Katoa - 13, May - 9, Phillips - 6 and Dean Whare 107. Hopefully, given many of this side have been together under Anthony Griffin for the past two it is reasonable to expect players will improve as an individual and the team performances should improve overall. We also have a number of fringe players waiting in the wings who clearly will make the grade at NRL level and one or two may go on to because future stars.

Unless we have a run of incredible bad luck, particularly, injuries then it is entirely reasonable we should improve our on field performances this season and play a better quality of footy. If we don't, do not have excuses such as injuries to key players and the like, well the coach surely has to go and someone else be giving the job in 2019.

I do think we will improve considerably in 2018, but I am also expecting other sides to improve considerable as well. I think it will be a significant achievement if we can again finish again the top eight, most likely to be in the 5 - 8 spots but playing much better overall in doing so. Fingers crossed.

Now to wait to the Hook is average crew take this over.

It is as simple as the above. We made our bed for sure but the fact we have 1 FG grade experience in NSW Cup shows why we have been mid table the last few years

 

[OldPanther]

Now to wait to the Hook is average crew take this over.

It is as simple as the above. We made our bed for sure but the fact we have 1 FG grade experience in NSW Cup shows why we have been mid table the last few years

Both are true

 

[mxlegend99]

Now to wait to the Hook is average crew take this over.

It is as simple as the above. We made our bed for sure but the fact we have 1 FG grade experience in NSW Cup shows why we have been mid table the last few years

We had a lot more first grade experience sitting in NSW Cup when Hook arrived.

Also youre mistaken about how many experienced players we will have on Sunday and we would have more again at full strength.


Sione Katoa either drops to NSW Cup or pushes somrone back there. Makes 2.
Tim Browne either drops to NSW Cup or pushes someone back there. Makes 3.

Then when fit...
Dean Whare pushes someone out of the team. Makes 4.
Tyrone May either plays NSW Cup or pushes someone out of the team. Makes 5.
Tyrone Philips is injured and has NRL experience. Makes 6.

Thats after 6 or 7 experienced players moving on and being replaced by 2.

 

[franklin2323]

Both are true

Pretty much was explained to me by someone in the know. Not these exact words but why sign a plodder with a few games experience when a kid is just as good and has a higher ceiling.

I guess when Katoa, McKendry and co go back down the depth game wise looks ok. Still not sure of a few guys if called on

 

[mxlegend99]

Gus signed plodders with experience in 2012/2013 to rebuild the salary cap and help develop those young guys without destroying their confidence by throwing them to the wolves. Cheap plodders were only hired to do a temporary job.

I hated seeing some of those plodders run out for us and would have preferred youngsters. But Gus seemed to think it would hold their development back.

Knights should tell us if thats true or not. Personaly I think its not as cut and dry as that i also think a player whose career ends after a tough season probably wasnt going to have much of a career anyway blake was thrown to the wolves 2015.. fans turned on him. But he turned it around and I think that tough year was a good thing for him. Builds character.

 

[franklin2323]

Broncos look like being us last year:
Unproven halves combination
Key players coming back from ACL.
Smashed by Dragons in Round 1

Just without our depth will be interesting to see how they finish up after round 25

 

[mxlegend99]

Nearly every team has an unproven halves combination. Advantage Raiders and Souths.

Edit
Eels and Cowboys also. Titans kinda.

 

[OldPanther]

Broncos look like being us last year:
Unproven halves combination
Key players coming back from ACL.
Smashed by Dragons in Round 1

Just without our depth will be interesting to see how they finish up after round 25

I don't see them challenging unless Bird makes a big difference too them. Their pack is just too weak this year and good halves struggle with that let alone the Broncos with no real half back.

 

[umina panther]

They are far weaker than us last year.

 

[mxlegend99]

Round 1 hybrid lineup. Imo best of our backs would be:

Fullback - Boyd
LW - Mansour
LC - Blake
RC - Roberts
RW - DWZ
F/E - Maloney
HB - Cleary

Broncos will be better once Bird is fit

 

[franklin2323]

I don't see them challenging unless Bird makes a big difference too them. Their pack is just too weak this year and good halves struggle with that let alone the Broncos with no real half back.

They did let plenty go. Everyone focused on us and let them go under the radar but we should finish well in front of both teams that played last night

 

[OldPanther]

Round 1 hybrid lineup. Imo best of our backs would be:

Fullback - Boyd
LW - Mansour
LC - Blake
RC - Roberts
RW - DWZ
F/E - Maloney
HB - Cleary

Broncos will be better once Bird is fit

That's a damn good back line. It would win some games on talent alone.

They did let plenty go. Everyone focused on us and let them go under the radar but we should finish well in front of both teams that played last night

I agree. Letting Hunt go will hurt them this year badly.

They are far weaker than us last year.