Discussion in 'NRL Expansion' started by GONZO72, Jul 26, 2013.
Anything able to post amap of Sydney with the clubs main supporter catchment areas shown?
Great Answer! Especially agree with the bold part. All clubs in Sydney need to have a presence away from the traditional districts. Sydney is changing rapidly and all areas need a presence. Parra/Penrith/tigers need a bigger presence in the North-West and South-West, the newer suburbs.
Moreover, All clubs need a bigger presence in the immigrant communities. Parramatta, I know, is lazy in this. Fans come from everywhere except Central Parramatta now because no one has targetted the Indian community who live in Harris Park and Westmead.
Souths back to Allianz to fill the void. Bulldogs and panthers can pick up the Wests territories and sharks (lol) st George area. It would take a generation but if all the schools, jnr clubs etc were closely alligned with the blow in nrl clubs it would happen in the next generation. In the mean time the fanbases in Gosford, Perth and gong are grown to fill the short term drop off.
The NRL needs to set up a relocation partnership with state government and 3 clubs based on a "One club, one ground" and minimum stadium policy requirement for remaining inclusion in the NRL.
Move St George to the gong. Give them a CofE and an eastern grandstand to do this along with 2 heritage games in Sydney.
Move Tigers to Campbelltown. Give them a CoE and a northern grandstand.
Move Manly to Gosford. Give them a CofE and tell them that unless they can get Brookie "up to code" they cannot stay there. Imply that without a rebuild Brookie will never be up to code.
You then give the Sharks and Panthers deadlines to upgrade their grounds.
Bring in Perth and Bris 2.
Reduce the comp by 4 rounds.
That'd work but you'd need to convince Souths to move back. They seem to like ANZ.
Ultimately I do think 6 teams is a good number for Sydney.
Roosters & Dragons could still play a couple of games in Sydney, even the tigers could if they moved to Brisbane.
One Sydney relocation to Perth on Brisbane would allow the league to expand further in NZ. Which I think is strategically important. Such a good source of players.
Is an eastern stand possible in the gong? It's very close to the beach.
Penrith are likely to get a new stadium in the future, the premier hinted at it the other day.
Souths like the money anz guarantees them. If Allianz or the nrl offered them more they'd move in a heartbeat, it's not like the south Sydney western suburbs fans are flocking to anz!
Not sure that's the full story.
Souths fans live all over Sydney these days, demographics have changed in the inner city considerably.
Souths averaged 20k fans at ANZ 2012-14, peaking at 22k in 2013. It's clearly a convenient spot for their fans to get to.
Remember ANZ isn't really in western Sydney, it's literally a stones throw from the inner west.
Talk of any relocation by a Sydney club is farcical. Not only is Sydneys population increasing due to high density housing developments the game must maintain its presence as not doing so will open up more chances for other codes to encroach into Australia's largest market. When u have a million less people in Melbourne with a rival code having ten clubs and a million more people in Sydney with 8.5 clubs in top flight rugby league , the mathematics do not add up to further diluting rugby league in Sydney. Im all for more clubs. The national RLcompetition should be at 20 clubs. I would suggest a Sydney metropolitan promotion and relegation set up for existing and next tier clubs. Having clubs like North Sydney, Newtown , Balmain, Campbelltown etc vying for a chance to play in the top flight would bolster rugby league in Sydney as fans will once again relate and have a sense of ownership and enthusiasm for rugby league again. A promotion and relegation set up with maintaining the top flight presence of at least 9 to 10 metropolitan clubs is workable. The tyrrany of distance will.not apply to rugby league in the Sydney metropolitan area as it would for outside of Sydney expansion clubs. As it stands right now it looks like rugby league is 'running away' from Sydney and this should not be the case .
It is possible.
Demographics matter, not just raw numbers.
Growth is Melbourne is actually outpacing Sydney, expected to pass our population within 30 years. (There's not a million less people now, 400k less)
Sydney sporting market has always been more diverse than Melbourne, rugby league doesn't have the stranglehold the AFL does.
We need to balance the needs of sydney with the needs of rugby league in general.
If we keep Sydney at 8.5 teams and expand we'll be seriously diluting the quality of the competition.
In the end Sydney would still have 6 teams, with possibly two just on its outskirts. I only see one team possibly moving interstate.
Trouble is we we reduce the 8.5 teams in Sydney,we'll be diluting the fan base ala Bears and give GWS and Swans a further boost.
Always heard during my working life ,never give your competitors an even break.Cause you end up on the wrong side of the pineapple.The biggest gift rugby league/News gave to AFL was the SL war and the finale.
I still maintain till I'm as flushed as Rothfield,bring all clubs' stadiums up to 21 st Century standards and comfort, decent ticketing deals ,and decent scheduling, and we wouldn't be arguing the case for a reduction in clubs.
Just wait and see ,the effect of a new you beaut Parra stadium on fan attendances.And then rectangular better covering ANZ.
Our competitors aren't just going after the Sydney market. They want all of Australia.
Question is can we compete with that whilst maintaining 9 Sydney teams? I'm doubtful.
If it's done properly we can minimise damage to Sydney. The swans in the AFL are a great example. They still have thousands of Melbourne based supporters.
If we also have a team move to the central coast it's still pretty close. Ditto for Wollongong.
It could be done with only one team moving interstate.
Agree your first line.They want all of Oz and all the juniors if they could.
If the Sydney clubs can break even with the current 2018 -2022 grant,improved facilities can't see why they can't be viable to grow their base, remembering many of the Sydney clubs have record memberships ..Tigers/Sharks/Penrith/Parra ,no reason Manly/Roosters/Dogs/Dragons/Souths provided they play decent football can't also imprpve their bottom lines.
The Swans were going nowhere prior to 1995,then SL came along, they made the semis, Norths flicked opening up a stack of areas to grow.If the above debacles had not occurred remembering the Swans nearly carked it at least twice,thgeir South Melbourne fans would have had no one.Also fumblefans down south are far more rusted on, have far less entertainment options than we do in Sydney.
Then I look at the Lions ex Fitzroy,they are hardly a good example for transplant.
TBH I don't have an answer for CC or the Bears.
What I do believe now rl has got it's a*se into gear, and bringing back weight and age for juniors, they should be able to increase their grassroots base. A bigger grassroots gives you better backup for expansion.
I just can't see relocation of one team, where you will lose supporters to fill another area that may not be as receptive for a parachuted teams being a plus.Yes there will be those who are prepared to accept their club being hoisted Kms away, but I don't want fumble ball to nab any more if we can help it.
A new club in
say Perth with local input and startup is IMO a far better option.
Can't see why an 18 team comp is not viable with decent admin, and Tv stations interested in 9 matches each weekend.
Under the current NRL structure they can't force teams to move anyway. But they should stop lending them money.
The new grant will help but it's no magic bullet. The dragons still haven't paid back the $6million they owe.
Wouldn't rule out the dragons moving to Wollongong. If Bruce Gordon takes them over I think that will happen.
In the meantime we should encourage more games to be taken elsewhere, part of the issue in Sydney is there's too much product. Make it more scarce and it will benefit the crowds.
They stuck at it and it eventually came off. Super league helped them to be sure but the number one ingredient is winning. They made the GF in 1996 and had the best player in the league.
Dollars to donuts another Sydney rugby league club will have financial problems in the future. That's the opportunity for the NRL. Seriously some of the incompetence these clubs employ is staggering, classic jobs for the boys. One of them will repeat it.
Relocation can be managed properly but it'll take good administration from the NRL. If a team moves another NRL team needs to immediately move in and start running things in that area. School visits, junior leagues etc.
18 teams is viable but we have at least 3 solid locations for expansion, not just 2.
I have always been very big on expansion in terms of number of teams, but after watching my Knights over the last few years plus some other poor teams I do worry about the quality of football we will see with an 18 team competiton. In saying that we need to move to other areas with Perth being a must. This is why I think the tigers would be perfect to move to Perth as the West Coast Tigers.
I understand it would have a negative affect on the fans of the club but we would gain so many by having a presence in Perth especially with the force leaving. There can be steps taken to soften the blow such as relly driving the fact the Tigers will still play away games in sydney multiple times through the year and by placing the Wests Magpies and Balmain Tigers in the NSW Cup to play out of Leichardt and Campbeltown every week against the likes of Norths and Newtown.
That way when we do expand the 2 other clear areas in my mind are Brisbane and Adelaide. We can have other Sydney teams play multiple games in other key areas such as the Roosters in the Central Coast and South Sydney in Campbeltown, plus teams can take games to other parts of NZ.
I note that many people in this website refer to the 'religious like' support of the Afl code in Melbourne. I would suggest this 'demographic wide' suport stems from a universal access to all school systems (public and private) which rugby league does not have in its heartland areas. This ultimately has a flow on to all parts of society as these people become adults due to the exposure of a particular code and not the other . If RL enjoyed the same universal schooling presence im sure you would be referring to rugby league's support as 'like a religion'.
I think if player depth is an issue (which it definitely is) a second New Zealand team is must. We can tap into the local talent in a way that just can't be done with Adelaide. It'd take Adelaide 20-30 years to produce local talent.
Even so called wealthy comps.like the fumbles, teams like the Lions have been losing millions year after year,end hundreds of millions have been expended on GWS and the Suns.Quite a few AFL clubs need poker machine money to provide the revenue to continue in addition to the grants.
I can assure you the AFL will not be moving any more clubs out of Melbourne.We have already joined 4 clubs to 2,flicked another
There will always be the wealthy and the less so in sport.But having a limit placed on football club spending to be introduced, will help some of these incompetents from themselves.
I could handle the Dragons moving to the Gong,they are getting better crowds there in anycase.
BTW I'm all for NRL clubs to stage games in regionals but more so in Perth and Adelaide.
Ask yourself the hypothetical, if there was no SL,where would the Swans be today in terms of crowds and membership and if the Bears had survived.The Swans had nowhere else to go, they were shagged in South Melbourne,as were the Lions.
And you made a valid point ,Swans making the G/F in 1996,dead set in the midst of the SL war legal cases, in effect invited p*ssed of rl fans to give them a go.It was a lotto win for them,p*ssed off rl fans, making the G/F and all the publicity they got from the Fairfax media and Tv stations.
People hated Murdoch with a vengeance.Now he's given the fumble mob extra money because Smith want solo.
Leaving the north Sydney area vacant ,was one of the dumbest decisions ever foisted in rl.
I saw the deep angst at the SL meeting at the Sharks by fans.Heard some say you can stick it.
The code wasted all its cash on hand to fight the case.Mpney that could have been expended on expansion and or grassroots.Instead ending up in the pockets in some cases of 2nd grade players on 1st grade money.
It's a typical example of rl shooting itself in the foot, and it's hardly a rarity.Yes SL saved the Sharks in hindsight ,but it was a blight on the code, and IMO one in which it still has not fully recovered.
If a team gets into deep financial poo,the NRL has stated they won't be bailing them out.
About player depth. You would be surprised at the amount of players start playing rugby league when their is news of a new club/ franchise being added to the NRL. I know as a former player I was and would be motivated to try my luck in the NRL with a new additional club on the horizon.
Separate names with a comma.