Why not play Jai Field on the Wing?

Discussion in 'St George Illawarra Dragons' started by Rob Dragon, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. BennyV

    BennyV Coach

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    Agree there needs to be a plan, this was what Millward was employed to do as director of pathways but doesn't work if Mary is not on board.

    With Thommo - I personally wouldn't have re-signed him for his current contract and given the starting spot to Sims with the intent of having Host ready to go full-time by kickoff next year.
     
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  2. Slippery Morris

    Slippery Morris First Grade

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    I see Jai Field as a Preston Campbell type player. Can play Fullback/Wing and in the halves. Prston was not much in size but still had a huge impact in some games. He was targeted in defence a bit but the backrow of Friz,JDB,Sims,Thomo can help with that.
     
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  3. True_Believer

    True_Believer Juniors

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    To me it appears Millward is putting that plan in place - it looks to me like he is creating those pathways and investing in the future of the young players we have coming through - at least the current crop.

    Mary is the big question mark. Although he did blood some new players last year, I feel there could have been more work done to allow them time in the big league as well as preparing others for the step up. Millward is giving him every chance to do that on outward appearances.

    It's also difficult to make a judgement call without knowing what is happening behind the scenes.

    The Thommo/Sims thing may have been a timing issue. I can't remember when Thommo resigned for the current 2 year contract but suspect it was before we were aware Sims was an option. Sims signed in May 2016 so guessing Thommo was extended before that. Having said that, I would agree - if we had known Sims was coming on board, resigning Thommo should not have been on the table. Either that or not take on Sims at all and persist with bringing Host/Leluia through as the next step. Again, maybe Sims is an interim step to buy time to allow the young brigade to develop further.
     
  4. Carlton

    Carlton Juniors

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    I am hoping there is a plan but when I look at the players and when they are coming off contract I have concerns. Most of the juniors many are banking on providing a ten year dynasty are only signed for next year which means they can be approached by other clubs already.

    Off Contract 2018: Leeson Ah Mau, Mitchell Allgood, Matt Dufty, Reuben Garrick, Patrick Herbert, Josh Kerr, Jeremy Latimore, Luciano Leilua, Cameron McInnes, Jason Nightingale, Jordan Pereira, Hame Sele, Joel Thompson, Zac Lomax?

    The other two issues with the players only signed for 2018 are two of our spine Dufty and McInnes and four front rowers. These would leave a big hole to cover unless there is a plan in place that takes this into consideration. This would mean a target list of players would have to be underway.

    Off Contract 2019: Jai Field, Blake Lawrie, Nene Macdonald, Kurt Mann, Darren Nicholls, Reece Robson, Tristan Sailor, Tariq Sims

    This does not seem to be too much of a problem to manage if the off contract players in 2018 has been addressed successfully.

    Whether we think its right or not the core of the team for the future is based around -
    Signed till 2020 or longer: Euan Aitken, Jack de Belin, Tyson Frizell, James Graham, Jacob Host, Tim Lafai, Gareth Widdop, Ben Hunt, Paul Vaughn.

    2020+ is generally a solid position and again seems to indicate to me that there are some already targeted player acquisitions aimed at 2019.
     
  5. watatank

    watatank Coach

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    Lomax is signed to 2019.

    It's not just people on here that are 'banking' on the younger players coming through, it's the club essentially saying this is the plan. I think the club will want to keep Ah Mau around or sign someone similar. Thompson will probably leave and Host will take his place. Dufty is playing fullback and can earn a place long term. Not sure what the specific plan with McInnes is but the club highly rates Robson. Sele has debuted and should have more chances. Not sure what to make of Leilua but Herbert and Garrick have been mentioned for a while now, definitely time to see what they have got and they both turn 21 next year. Most of the others are neither here nor there. `
     
  6. Carlton

    Carlton Juniors

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    Its good to hear Lomax is signed to 2019. My point is that if the club is banking on the juniors most of them are only signed for 2018 and right at this moment can be approached by rival clubs and two of our spine are in the same situation.

    Either the club is taking a huge gamble and think they can fight off other offers or there is a targeted list of players for 2019. What I suspect is the club thinks they will lose some of the juniors and keep some and depending on who they keep will influence the targeted players approached.

    I don't think the club expects or wants to keep all the juniors and is playing a wait and see game, who looks the goods in 2018 and who doesn't. This could backfire as it has in the past but, if we have alternatives already identified to chase depending on what transpires, this may work out OK.

    I hate waiting to find out what the plan is or even if there is one.
     
  7. denis preston

    denis preston Bench

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    Carlton history tells us that it is easier to retain a player than acquire one.If these young players are any good we will retain them ..I congratulate the club for signing up these juniors but the fact remains they are a work in progress and some won't make it so why foolishly commit early on contracts only to have a player just rot in ressies and clog up the player list.
     
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  8. Carlton

    Carlton Juniors

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    I agree 100% with what you say, my concern is the number of players only signed for 2018 (mostly the future backs we are craving) and that I hope there is a plan with contingencies in place.

    I am not saying the club has done the wrong thing or what they are doing is necessarily wrong. What I was trying to say is, IF there is a plan and the gamble to wait and see if the juniors can compete at a first grade level coupled with a willingness to look outside if the gamble doesn't work then, I agree with this approach. But in my opinion if you are taking this approach you need to have a pretty definitive list of targeted players that you can quickly and aggressively chase if either the juniors don't aim up or are poached.

    As I said before I just wish I knew exactly what the club has in mind.
     
  9. watatank

    watatank Coach

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    I was talking about the general direction, the club seems to be looking to provide a pathway for the juniors coming through like we used to do in the past. But the juniors still need to perform. If they are good enough there will be a spot for them, if they aren't (or there's better around) then we will look elsewhere. Obviously the players need to do what's best for them as well.

    Anyway, it's November. There are many players, at many other clubs, many of which have much bigger reputations that are also off contract and open to being signed by another club.
     
  10. watatank

    watatank Coach

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    I'm sure the club has alternatives in mind if the younger players don't work out and will be considering players at all levels, not just first grade. They will talk up players already at the club and coming through but they are not necessarily going to be open about trying to recruit a first grader signed to another club.
     
  11. giboz71

    giboz71 Bench

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    I’m all for bringing juniors through and if you look at the talent the last few years - Host, Leilua, Field, Dufty, Lawrie, Sele, all show promise but none have really blown me away and convinced me they are going to be stars. Lomax, Herbert, Garrick and Robson will be added to the this list.

    I just don’t have confiedence we are developing our juniors to realise their potential. And I’m guessing 2 or 3 of these guys need to be stars for us to go anywhere, given the rest of our roster.
     
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  12. Dennis Papaioannou

    Dennis Papaioannou Juniors

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    We are entering the realm of subjectivity but some of Widdop's "deft" kicks were tragic to watch.
    Kicking into the back of players. Into players legs and so on.
    You can't just shift Widdop's responsibility onto the rest of the spine.
    The Souths game wasn't the only problem game as you know.
     
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  13. Dennis Papaioannou

    Dennis Papaioannou Juniors

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    I think that is the key - he was fantastic for Melbourne as a link man.
    I can understand that he wanted to prove himself as a playmaker after winning a comp with Melbourne but, I'm sorry, he doesn't cut it as organizing play maker.
    Does he do some brilliant things occasionally? Absolutely.
    Will he win you a comp the way Cronk would? Absolutely not.
    I hope Hunt will be the missing ingredient and Widdop will be prepared to accept the link man's role.
    That would be the best for the team.
     
  14. hazzbeen

    hazzbeen Juniors

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    Mate this all comes back to Mary ..... If he allows Hunt and to play whats in front of him , Then maybe the Hunt Widdop combination could be deadly .
     
  15. BennyV

    BennyV Coach

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    Indeed, but a large part of that comes down to the type of opportunities they get, which is partly due to the player sin first grade but mostly on the coaching.

    Take Host, for example - this kid was the best of the bunch, a junior rep, named in the NSW Cup team of the year and was spoken about in the sam sentence as Tom Turbo and Nathan Cleary in terms of boom youngsters to hit the NRL. Yet when he gets to first grade, he sits on the bench for 70mins a game (even going so far as to not getting a minute of game time) and when he does come on, he gets used as a battering ram prop in the middle for a few minutes.

    Same goes for Sele, Lailua and Lawrie - although middle forwards take some time for their bodies to adjust to first grade, the idiot who picks them to sit on the bench for all but 10-15 minutes while our other forwards get burnt out over the season is not doing the kids any favours.
     
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  16. Overseas dragon

    Overseas dragon Juniors

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    Hunts game is a lot of instinct (what's in front of him) he's not going to change at this stage of his career.even MARY is not capable of dumbing down HUNTS game in my opinion .let's enjoy the ride I'm very confident 2018 will be worthwhile.GO THE BIG RED VVV
     
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  17. j0nesy

    j0nesy Bench

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    I wouldnt play Field on the wing. Wingers these days need to be tall and strong, not just fast. There are A lot of cross field kicks these days with many tall players competing for the ball. Also, a bit of size helps with the kick returns. We might be able to carry one short winger. But we couldn’t carry 2 short wingers and a short full back (e.g Dufty/Field/ Nighty or Mann). I’d go for Garrick and eventually Lomax as our wingers with Dufty or Field at fullback, but prefer Field as a 5/8th.
     
  18. True_Believer

    True_Believer Juniors

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    We are never going to agree on this, but I just can't comprehend your reasoning on this. I'm not shifting responsibility, however you are. You say he is responsible for this but then you are happy to shift it over to Hunt when he comes on board?

    I said in my post that he needs consistency in this area so I have acknowledged he needs to improve. Although early in the season and occasionally later in the season he did control games to different degrees. There is a reason he was leading the Dally M even after he had been injured.

    Subjectivity is the sole reason people post in here - you'd be hard pressed to find an objective post. They're all based on personal opinions and feelings.

    I'm coming at it from a team point of view - not an individual one. If you look at the Storm they have at least 3 players in the spine that control games. Cowboys have 2, Eels have 2 etc. Almost all teams have more than 1 game manager and all have more than 1 point of attack. Game control relies on more than 1 position and for you to suggest that Widdop (or as you've suggested Hunt when he comes on board) should be solely responsible for this is mind boggling.

    If this is what you suggest is the way forward for the team, then we are already at a disadvantage before we even start. All the opposition have to do is target your chosen player and we are rendered useless in attack. And if you watch the games we played this year, that's exactly what the opposition did. Once they realised Widdop was the focus of our attack they controlled him, effectively blunting our attack.
     
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  19. giboz71

    giboz71 Bench

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    This is what I’m talking about. Our juniors are being mismanaged. Your example with Host is spot on. So the question arises, is this incompetence by our coaches applying to our other juniors? Why have we see none of our boom youngsters rise to the next level?

    You get names like Cleary, Cotric, Crichton, Hess, Mitchell, Addo Carr, Ponga all making their mark in FG. All are roughly the same age as our current crop of juniors. So why have none of ours reached the same heights?

    Probably the same reason why our FG team has been shit for 5 years. Our coaches are clueless.
     
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  20. Dennis Papaioannou

    Dennis Papaioannou Juniors

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    I understand what you're saying but we are at cross purposes.
    Our spine last year included Dugan who is supposed to be a world class representative player.
    He played fullback and was often the first chosen by McGregor as an irreplaceable component of our spine.. So there's your 2nd spine contributor.
    Widdop was not on his Pat Malone by any stretch of the imagination and what I am suggesting, instead of rationalizing his poor performances, Is that he will never achieve consistency.
    He has already been part of a disastrous equation at our club for 3 years.
    Flashes of brilliance does not win you competitions.
    He did not gel with Benji - McCrone was just put there because Widdop wanted him there as a defensive foil and the times he was teamed up with Mann - just no cohesion at all.
    That says more about Widdop as a player rather than him carrying all the creative responsibility in the team.
    You can't seriously interpret my comments as shifting the play making role entirely on to Hunt.
    You know that is not what I meant.
    in 2018 Widdop will not only have Hunt but also Dufty who is an excellent playmaker in his own right.
    All I am saying is that Widdop's best role for the team will be as a link man exactly like he was at Melbourne.
    We should stop kidding ourselves regardless of what his Daly M status is.
    Just ask Bennett who gave up on him as a half after a game and a half at the WC.
    The fact the opposition was able to control, not only Widdop but generally our monotonous and predictable game plan, is a coaching issue that a smarter coach would have provided for.
    I am not a fan of Widdop as game manager or as our captain.
    Hopefully Hunt will provide the missing ingredient.
    We won't agree I know but enjoying the debate though.
     
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