Women's NRL

[The Great Dane]

Idiot! If you don't think population and the density does not impact on a market you are truelly a marketing sparrow! I'm sure the ten AFL clubs in Melbourne with one million less people don't agree with your gross ignorance of established club markets that are being maintained and used as an asset in that competition . Btw the "tearing established club markets apart logic" isn't in the thinking of that code and nor it should be! They will let you think it is just to keep rival codes off the scent! Just so your destructive logic gets wrongful airplay. Which is what's happening! It's the domain for reckless idiots like yourself that weakens rugby-league !

The numbers I put forward are the populations of Sydney (split between two), Melbourne (split between two), Brisbane, Adelaide, Perth, and Auckland, all of those numbers were bigger then 600k, using your logic that is a better make up of a national competition then a 9 team comp with the teams all situated in markets of 600k.
In other words using the logic of your previous post that population density is the most important factor in deciding where to setup a professional team and that all other factors are unnecessary extras, and that 600k is the minimum number that you need to have a successful club, you actually agree with me that the spread of clubs in any new comp should mirror my suggest comp above because that is the spread of clubs that would give us access to all the markets with the largest and densest populations in the region.

Of course I tried to explain that using population alone as a measuring stick for what will be a successful club and what wont be is asinine cause it doesn't take hundreds of other factors into account, and I was even going to go into the fact that each Sydney club didn't have a market of 600k and that they were actually all fighting with each other in a market of 4mil and that fact doesn't mean that they all have an equal share of the market, but I don't know why I bothered to try to go into anything with you as I know from prior experiences talking to you that you have the comprehension skills of a 6 year old...

 

[Stallion]

The numbers I put forward are the populations of Sydney (split between two), Melbourne (split between two), Brisbane, Adelaide, Perth, and Auckland, all of those numbers were bigger then 600k, using your logic that is a better make up of a national competition then a 9 team comp with the teams all situated in markets of 600k.
In other words using the logic of your previous post that population density is the most important factor in deciding where to setup a professional team and that all other factors are unnecessary extras, and that 600k is the minimum number that you need to have a successful club, you actually agree with me that the spread of clubs in any new comp should mirror my suggest comp above because that is the spread of clubs that would give us access to all the markets with the largest and densest populations in the region.

Of course I tried to explain that using population alone as a measuring stick for what will be a successful club and what wont be is asinine cause it doesn't take hundreds of other factors into account, and I was even going to go into the fact that each Sydney club didn't have a market of 600k and that they were actually all fighting with each other in a market of 4mil and that fact doesn't mean that they all have an equal share of the market, but I don't know why I bothered to try to go into anything with you as I know from prior experiences talking to you that you have the comprehension skills of a 6 year old...

You idiot! You fail to acknowledge the tyranny of distance. This is a massive consideration. Along with the traditional rivalries which make up the fabric of tribalism between these very well known clubs. Your so called 'business accumen' is focused on the wrong industry. The demoltion industry is your go!

 

[The Great Dane]

World of difference. Did you have a 2020 team you were aligned with, prior to the Big Bash? Women's NRL is going to struggle for attention like all women's sport. The advantage established clubs with established fans have over start up women's teams is massive. Plenty of people will see a women's game, because its their team, who wouldn't have bothered with a random women's team.

It could easily be the difference between success and failure.

The problem with your theory is that established clubs starting women's teams have consistently failed to support the women's team properly, and that the fans of the existing clubs have consistently failed to take an interest in the women's team on mass.

Taking just the W-league for now, the A-leagues average attendance last season was 12,650, the W-leagues was just 1,547, I can't be bothered looking up the ratings and I think I've made my point anyway.

Of the W-league teams Canberra United are the only team not affiliated to a men's club, they have the fifth highest average attendance at 1.285 and they aren't counting people that are showing up early for the men's game (ironically the biggest A-league clubs, Melbourne Victory, WSW, etc, have the lowest average attendance for their women's teams), they are the most successful W-league club, they do more within their catchment to develop the sport amongst girls and women then any of the other clubs despite the fact that they have less resources and a smaller profile then any of the A-league clubs, they are actually respected as a club in their own right and not treated as the clubs obligatory women's team, and they stand on their own two feet, everything that happens to them is on them, they aren't reliant on men focused club for their existance.

So whatever benefits there are to having the new women's teams connected to the old clubs they definitely aren't worth the negatives, and as Canberra United has shown women's clubs don't need to be connected to men's clubs to make a success of themselves, so why bother connecting the women's teams to the men's clubs when the outcomes of doing so are always less successful.

 

[Stallion]

The problem with your theory is that established clubs starting women's teams have consistently failed to support the women's team properly, and that the fans of the existing clubs have consistently failed to take an interest in the women's team on mass.

Taking just the W-league for now, the A-leagues average attendance last season was 12,650, the W-leagues was just 1,547, I can't be bothered looking up the ratings and I think I've made my point anyway.

Of the W-league teams Canberra United are the only team not affiliated to a men's club, they have the fifth highest average attendance at 1.285 and they aren't counting people that are showing up early for the men's game (ironically the biggest A-league clubs, Melbourne Victory, WSW, etc, have the lowest average attendance for their women's teams), they are the most successful W-league club, they do more within their catchment to develop the sport amongst girls and women then any of the other clubs despite the fact that they have less resources and a smaller profile then any of the A-league clubs, they are actually respected as a club in their own right and not treated as the clubs obligatory women's team, and they stand on their own two feet, everything that happens to them is on them, they aren't reliant on men focused club for their existance.

So whatever benefits there are to having the new women's teams connected to the old clubs they definitely aren't worth the negatives, and as Canberra United has shown women's clubs don't need to be connected to men's clubs to make a success of themselves, so why bother connecting the women's teams to the men's clubs when the outcomes of doing so are always less successful.

The move toward womans rugby league is more to do with inclusiveness. It will be more widely known if women are playing for the Parramatta Eels rather than the Parramatta herins? This inclusiveness image is diminished if noone is aware of it. The longstanding clubs are an upfront and very visible vehicle for showing this inclusiveness. Accept that the money making may be limited in female sport however the public relations benefits of having females visibly involved in rugby league is the big bonus! Thats why existing clubs are the best way to show such inclusiveness. Abstract creations are just another battle for female recognition in the PR stakes.

 

[The Great Dane]

You idiot! You fail to acknowledge the tyranny of distance. This is a massive consideration. Along with the traditional rivalries which make up the fabric of tribalism between these very well known clubs. Your so called 'business accumen' is focused on the wrong industry. The demoltion industry is your go!

The tyranny of distance! Seriously!

Have you seen the average attendances other sports with similar profiles to RL in this country?
AFL (2016, I couldn't find 2017)- 33,190.
BBL- 30,114.
NRL- 15,246.

Noticing a pattern here yet?
The competitions with national footprints have almost double the average attendance that the competition without has, so tell me why hasn't the tyranny of distance killed their crowd averages?

Maybe, just maybe, if we catered to as many people as possible we'd attract more people interested in buying our product then if we only cater to a select few, who could of thunk it.

 

[Stallion]

The tyranny of distance! Seriously!

Have you seen the average attendances other sports with similar profiles to RL in this country?
AFL (2016, I couldn't find 2017)- 33,190.
BBL- 30,114.
NRL- 15,246.

Noticing a pattern here yet?
The competitions with national footprints have almost double the average attendance that the competition without has, so tell me why hasn't the tyranny of distance killed their crowd averages?

Maybe, just maybe, if we catered to as many people as possible we'd attract more people interested in buying our product then if we only cater to a select few, who could of thunk it.

The AFL has 10 teams in Melbourne ! Dodo! I might add with a million less people to draw from than in Sydney. Work that one out!

 

[The Great Dane]

The move toward womans rugby league is more to do with inclusiveness. It will be more widely known if women are playing for the Parramatta Eels rather than the Parramatta herins?

Why is that the case?

If the comp is affiliated with the NRL and is backed by them, has a broadcasting contract, and is marketed at all, it should get just as much exposure as a competition including the NRL clubs.

The NRL clubs are the product that we are selling (or at least they shouldn't be), RL and specifically a women's RL competition are.

This inclusiveness image is diminished if noone is aware of it. The longstanding clubs are an upfront and very visible vehicle for showing this inclusiveness. Accept that the money making may be limited in female sport however the public relations benefits of having females visibly involved in rugby league is the big bonus! Thats why existing clubs are the best way to show such inclusiveness. Abstract creations are just another battle for female recognition in the PR stakes.

My whole point is that just having a women's comp as a PR tool to look "inclusive" isn't the right direction to go.

Projecting inclusiveness shouldn't be our goal, cause it's a waste of time and effort with basically no reward except to be able to role the girls out in front of the camera to say 'look how inclusive our sport is'.
Our goal should be to actually be inclusive not to just project it, too actually treat the women as equals and not just as tools, to do the best we can to turn the women's comp into a valuable product for the sport in it's own right, and to use the women's comp to attract as many new fans to the sport as possible and not to hope that old fans who aren't really interested will bother to show up to their games as well as the men's teams that they are actually interested in.

Doing so would be better for everyone in the long run, and there's more money in a women's comp to if we successfully make it a product in it's own right.

 

[Stallion]

Why is that the case?

If the comp is affiliated with the NRL and is backed by them, has a broadcasting contract, and is marketed at all, it should get just as much exposure as a competition including the NRL clubs.

The NRL clubs are the product that we are selling (or at least they shouldn't be), RL and specifically a women's RL competition are.



My whole point is that just having a women's comp as a PR tool to look "inclusive" isn't the right direction to go.

Projecting inclusiveness shouldn't be our goal, cause it's a waste of time and effort with basically no reward except to be able to role the girls out in front of the camera to say 'look how inclusive our sport is'.
Our goal should be to actually be inclusive not to just project it, too actually treat the women as equals and not just as tools, to do the best we can to turn the women's comp into a valuable product for the sport in it's own right, and to use the women's comp to attract as many new fans to the sport as possible and not to hope that old fans who aren't really interested will bother to show up to their games as well as the men's teams that they are actually interested in.

Doing so would be better for everyone in the long run, and there's more money in a women's comp to if we successfully make it a product in it's own right.

You just dont get it do you!? By playing under the NRL club structure the women instantly gain a supporter base. Otherwise it would be a very hard sell.

 

[The Great Dane]

The AFL has 10 teams in Melbourne ! Dodo! I might add with a million less people to draw from than in Sydney. Work that one out!

Yeah and they've been trying to get rid of more of those clubs in Melbourne for 20+ years.

Most of those Melbourne clubs also have the lowest average attendances of the AFL clubs (with the exceptions of Bris, GC, and GWS).

That also doesn't explain why the BBL's average attendances are larger then the NRL's, but I'm sure you'll have some excuses for that as well, maybe you'll go with your classic "I'm a teacher from Newcastle, I know these things" one...

 

[Stallion]

Yeah and they've been trying to get rid of more of those clubs in Melbourne for 20+ years.

Most of those Melbourne clubs also have the lowest average attendances of the AFL clubs (with the exceptions of Bris, GC, and GWS).

That also doesn't explain why the BBL's average attendances are larger then the NRL's, but I'm sure you'll have some excuses for that as well, maybe you'll go with your classic "I'm a teacher from Newcastle, I know these things" one...

Those clubs you so disrespectful deride have supporters all over Australia. You get rid of them you get rid of a stack of supporters. Simple as that!

 

[The Great Dane]

You just dont get it do you!? By playing under the NRL club structure the women instantly gain a supporter base. Otherwise it would be a very hard sell.

Except all evidence from everywhere in the world shows that isn't the case, and that on average fans of clubs that introduce a women's team don't take an interest in the women's team past the novelty period!

That's basically a fact, you can look into any comp in the world it's always the same, I've never even found an exception to the rule (not saying there isn't one though) and I have no reason to believe that the NRL would be an exception to that rule.

 

[The Great Dane]

Those clubs you so disrespectful deride have supporters all over Australia. You get rid of them you get rid of a stack of supporters. Simple as that!

Which clubs that I deride? I haven't derided any clubs.

Anyway you're not worth my time frankly.

 

[Stallion]

Except all evidence from everywhere in the world shows that isn't the case, and that on average fans of clubs that introduce a women's team don't take an interest in the women's team past the novelty period!

That's basically a fact, you can look into any comp in the world it's always the same, I've never even found an exception to the rule (not saying there isn't one though) and I have no reason to believe that the NRL would be an exception to that rule.

Would be easier to implement the womens competition and have it eventually alligned with the NRL. Just better overall. The benefits of mums having their minds more open to playing a contact sport in rugby league is the real value in the inclusivity. As well as an increased female market getting on board.

 

[Stallion]

Which clubs that I deride? I haven't derided any clubs.

Anyway you're not worth my time frankly.

You are copping a pasting champ! You havent recovered from the " ten teams in Melbourne with a million less people " fact. Your flimsy response was as unconvincing as your flawed logic overall. You are a spastic and a very damaging one at that if you ever had influence in rugby league. That's what I've worked out with you! ! Everyone has an opinion but yours is crap!

 

[T-Boon]

Stallion v The Great Dane
It is a very manly, Dothraki battle for the mother of dragons.
You both love Rugby League (I am pissed), you both want what is best for league.
We need to combine our intellectual forces against a common (I am pissed) enemy.

 

[Stallion]

Stallion v The Great Dane
It is a very manly, Dothraki battle for the mother of dragons.
You both love Rugby League (I am pissed), you both want what is best for league.
We need to combine our intellectual forces against a common (I am pissed) enemy.

Although if the Great Dane had his way their would be no rugby league! Hope you enjoy your drink or five! Stallion.

 

[The Great Dane]

You are copping a pasting champ! You havent recovered from the " ten teams in Melbourne with a million less people " fact. Your flimsy response was as unconvincing as your flawed logic overall. You are a spastic and a very damaging one at that if you ever had influence in rugby league. That's what I've worked out with you! ! Everyone has an opinion but yours is crap!

It's hard to cop a pasting when the person you are talking too fails to respond to most of your points and the ones that they do respond too they respond too by reasserting their original point over and over instead of actually providing a counter point to your argument.

Talking to you is a bit like a sincere man talking to a really bad propagandist.

But again you're not worth my time.

 

[OldPanther]

You are copping a pasting champ! You havent recovered from the " ten teams in Melbourne with a million less people " fact. Your flimsy response was as unconvincing as your flawed logic overall. You are a spastic and a very damaging one at that if you ever had influence in rugby league. That's what I've worked out with you! ! Everyone has an opinion but yours is crap!

From an outside perspective in this conversation you have come off second best mate.

 

[Stallion]

From an outside perspective in this conversation you have come off second best mate.

Beg to differ. But that's fine Old Panther.

 

[Stallion]

It's hard to cop a pasting when the person you are talking too fails to respond to most of your points and the ones that they do respond too they respond too by reasserting their original point over and over instead of actually providing a counter point to your argument.

Talking to you is a bit like a sincere man talking to a really bad propagandist.

But again you're not worth my time.

Much of your points are unnecessary dribble! You have a consistent and scant regard for historical relevance and longevity of established rugby league clubs. That's your major failing!