Would the Gold Coast licence be better off used elsewhere?

[herbert henry1908]

Can you explain to me why that one criteria (membership) makes them less viable then 15 other NRL teams?

Firstly, I just said it’s not one or the other. Never said they’re less viable than all other 15 teams. But moving a team with less roots in the community is going to be easier than moving a older team.

With that said I do think membership numbers are a vital indication of a teams viabilty.

The Titans are 5000 members behind the next worst, that’s a huge gap. It indicates how much the community is willing to invest in their local team. It also indicates that a rather large percentage of the fans attending games are supporters of other clubs. Ie. they wouldn’t be lost to rugby league.

I also support rationalisation of the Sydney market.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Surely this membership number is alarming? I know it’s a particularly bad season but they’ve always been towards the bottom end of memberships.

 

[Diesel]

Surely this membership number is alarming? I know it’s a particularly bad season but they’ve always been towards the bottom end of memberships.


View attachment 18257

OT, the Warriors have doubled their membership from the beginning of the month

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Despite a crappy few years their attendance last year was better than:
Cronulla
Manly
Penrith
Auckland
Souths
Wests
St's

This notion that they have far fewer fans than everyone else therefore should not have a license is a nonsense as proven by the attendances stats. If we are going on their crowd avg as the bar for inclusion half of Sydney would lose their licenses!

Good point! I think out-of-Sydney teams, especially one-city teams are judged at a harsher standard though because of the limited space in the top flight. I don't have a problem with the GC but not at the expense of Brisbane 2 averaging 20 - 25k in the league or Perth slowly building (Melbourne Storm style) to 20k in AFL territory.

 

[Perth Red]

Biggest concern I can see is that the new owners don't seem to have had as number one priority fan reconnection. Membership numbers and the opening attendance would suggest not much work has gone on since they were sold in getting fans back on board? Can anyone in the region shed light on if the club is doing anything to re-engage fans with the club?

End of day relevance in NRL will be judged on size o fanbase, financial sustainability and on field performance.

 

[The Great Dane]

Look I'm not a huge fan of how the Titans have been handled, and frankly I think that for the majority of the clubs' existence the club has been terribly run, especially the way that the Titans seem to treat their engagement with their community, and last year when the club was for sale it should have been sold to new owners instead of letting the old guard continue in charge of the club when they have consistantly failed so many times before.

However in saying all that the mere PR of removing the Titans from the GC alone would be an enormous disaster for the NRL in the current climate. I'm not normally one to play the AFL card, but in this case it really is a factor, and if the Titans were to be moved out of the GC it would be a propagandists dream for the Suns, the AFL, and their friends in the media, and they'd very quickly make the NRL look very, very bad if the NRL were to remove the Titans from the GC, even if when you got down to it that it was in the NRL's best interests to do so.

If we're being honest the Titans probably shouldn't have been brought into the comp in 07, in fact looking back none of the bids at the time were really any good and the game probably should have bided it's time and waited for a better option to come along, but in saying that the Rabbitohs should have been kicked straight back out of the competition in 04-05 once the the ruling that got them back in was overturned, and by rights the Chargers never should have been kicked out of the comp in the first place, so innumerable mistakes have been made over the years that were all factors leading up to the predicament that the Titans and by extension the NRL are currently in...

Anyhow, the way that the Titans have been run is terrible (but to be fair they were going great guns until the global financial crisis happened and there's no reason why they couldn't turn it around), and a lot of mistakes have been made, but I think we're stuck with them now and that it's in every bodies best interests in the long term to persist with them, even though we'll certainly suffer in the short term.
They do desperately need new management or at least to attempt take the club in a new direction (but the NRL seems to be against letting that happen for some reason), and a re-brand wouldn't go astray either if you ask me...

 

[herbert henry1908]

Look I'm not a huge fan of how the Titans have been handled, and frankly I think that for the majority of the clubs' existence the club has been terribly run, especially the way that the Titans seem to treat their engagement with their community, and last year when the club was for sale it should have been sold to new owners instead of letting the old guard continue in charge of the club when they have consistantly failed so many times before.

Agree, it’s a concern the now owners were a part of the old operation. Can only hope they were the dissenting voices to the majority.

However in saying all that the mere PR of removing the Titans from the GC alone would be an enormous disaster for the NRL in the current climate. I'm not normally one to play the AFL card, but in this case it really is a factor, and if the Titans were to be moved out of the GC it would be a propagandists dream for the Suns, the AFL, and their friends in the media, and they'd very quickly make the NRL look very, very bad if the NRL were to remove the Titans from the GC, even if when you got down to it that it was in the NRL's best interests to do so.

I wonder if the AFL are having second thoughts too? I know this sounds a little crazy, but what if the AFL are only sticking at it because the NRL are there? Back channel approach to mutually walk away. It’s a little out there, but given the amount of money the AFL are sinking into it, perhaps it’s something that could be tried.

If we're being honest the Titans probably shouldn't have been brought into the comp in 07, in fact looking back none of the bids at the time were really any good and the game probably should have bided it's time and waited for a better option to come along, but in saying that the Rabbitohs should have been kicked straight back out of the competition in 04-05 once the the ruling that got them back in was overturned, and by rights the Chargers never should have been kicked out of the comp in the first place, so innumerable mistakes have been made over the years that were all factors leading up to the predicament that the Titans and by extension the NRL are currently in...

I think Brisbane would’ve been a much safer bet back in 2007. The broncos were strong, there was huge demand for rugby league in that market. Look at the decision to play the WC final in Brisbane.

I think a second Brisbane side averages 20k, high teens at worst.

Anyhow, the way that the Titans have been run is terrible (but to be fair they were going great guns until the global financial crisis happened and there's no reason why they couldn't turn it around), and a lot of mistakes have been made, but I think we're stuck with them now and that it's in every bodies best interests in the long term to persist with them, even though we'll certainly suffer in the short term.
They do desperately need new management or at least to attempt take the club in a new direction (but the NRL seems to be against letting that happen for some reason), and a re-brand wouldn't go astray either if you ask me...

That early success could’ve just been dumb luck, riding high as a new franchise. There was enough players to fill a 16 team comp, so they were always going to be pretty competitive from the onset.

I’d persist with the club for now, but I think the code would be crazy to prop them up again. Unless there’s an immediate buyer, I’d cut them loose. Gold Coast failure won’t look as bad as other markets, people know there’s a history of failure in this region.


In terms of a rebrand, if it wasn’t for the history of rebranding Gold Coast teams I’d say go for it. But a rebrand could be seen as desperation stakes. No one wants to buy into something they think is failing. But the branding was all wrong from the start, something more traditional would’ve served them better.

 

[The Great Dane]

I think Brisbane would’ve been a much safer bet back in 2007. The broncos were strong, there was huge demand for rugby league in that market. Look at the decision to play the WC final in Brisbane.

I think a second Brisbane side averages 20k, high teens at worst.

Even if their was a viable bid from Brisbane at the time (which for the record there wasn't) the NRL couldn't add another club from Brisbane at the time, as they had an exclusivity deal with Broncos from the SL war that was still in effect at the time.

Unless the Broncos waved that clause (which was never going to happen) The NRL couldn't legally add another club in Brisbane until 2010-12ish (I'm totally blanking on the exact dates I'm afraid).

In terms of a rebrand, if it wasn’t for the history of rebranding Gold Coast teams I’d say go for it. But a rebrand could be seen as desperation stakes. No one wants to buy into something they think is failing. But the branding was all wrong from the start, something more traditional would’ve served them better.

I didn't necessarily mean a total re-brand (in other words I was talking about a new badge, a new sleeker more instantly recognisable but mainly simpler jersey design, and maybe some adjustments or even changes in their colour palette to make them more unique, not a name change as such), but playing devils advocate for a moment your argument above is a double edged sword and there does come a time when you've devalued your brand so much that you've got no choice but to look into re-branding because it's become synonymous with scandal and failure, and I think it's reasonable to suggest that the Titans may have come very close to that point...

 

[herbert henry1908]

Even if their was a viable bid from Brisbane at the time (which for the record there wasn't) the NRL couldn't add another club from Brisbane at the time, as they had an exclusivity deal with Broncos from the SL war that was still in effect at the time.

Unless the Broncos waved that clause (which was never going to happen) The NRL couldn't legally add another club in Brisbane until 2010-12ish (I'm totally blanking on the exact dates I'm afraid).

Interesting. I didn’t realise there was a contractual agreement, thought it was more just a wish of the bronocs not to have a second team. Although given news Ltd’s invovlement with the game that would’ve been just as strong as a contract I guess.

I didn't necessarily mean a total re-brand (in other words I was talking about a new badge, a new sleeker more instantly recognisable but mainly simpler jersey design, and maybe some adjustments or even changes in their colour palette to make them more unique, not a name change as such), but playing devils advocate for a moment your argument above is a double edged sword and there does come a time when you've devalued your brand so much that you've got no choice but to look into re-branding because it's become synonymous with scandal and failure, and I think it's reasonable to suggest that the Titans may have come very close to that point...

Yeah definitely agree. They could do with making the jerseys and branding a little less flashy & more traditional. Pick a jersey & solid colours, then stick with it for a long time to build the brand.

This is a horror show of a jersey, and it’s way too similar to NSW colours

I think they were trying for something more traditional with the V, but it’s awful with that sponsorship. Colours are the biggest issue though.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Look I'm not a huge fan of how the Titans have been handled, and frankly I think that for the majority of the clubs' existence the club has been terribly run, especially the way that the Titans seem to treat their engagement with their community, and last year when the club was for sale it should have been sold to new owners instead of letting the old guard continue in charge of the club when they have consistantly failed so many times before.

However in saying all that the mere PR of removing the Titans from the GC alone would be an enormous disaster for the NRL in the current climate. I'm not normally one to play the AFL card, but in this case it really is a factor, and if the Titans were to be moved out of the GC it would be a propagandists dream for the Suns, the AFL, and their friends in the media, and they'd very quickly make the NRL look very, very bad if the NRL were to remove the Titans from the GC, even if when you got down to it that it was in the NRL's best interests to do so.

If we're being honest the Titans probably shouldn't have been brought into the comp in 07, in fact looking back none of the bids at the time were really any good and the game probably should have bided it's time and waited for a better option to come along, but in saying that the Rabbitohs should have been kicked straight back out of the competition in 04-05 once the the ruling that got them back in was overturned, and by rights the Chargers never should have been kicked out of the comp in the first place, so innumerable mistakes have been made over the years that were all factors leading up to the predicament that the Titans and by extension the NRL are currently in...

Anyhow, the way that the Titans have been run is terrible (but to be fair they were going great guns until the global financial crisis happened and there's no reason why they couldn't turn it around), and a lot of mistakes have been made, but I think we're stuck with them now and that it's in every bodies best interests in the long term to persist with them, even though we'll certainly suffer in the short term.
They do desperately need new management or at least to attempt take the club in a new direction (but the NRL seems to be against letting that happen for some reason), and a re-brand wouldn't go astray either if you ask me...

Some good points here. You are right about the Titans in 2007. If I remember correctly the NRL rushed through a team to get in before the AFL who were trying to get North Melbourne to relocate. In hindsight, we should have added Brisbane 2 and then committed to bringing multiple NRL games to the GC and focusing on the three QLD Cup teams in the region. We would have maintained our status as the # 1 sport even with the Suns in town.

 

[taipan]

Understand membership for Tits now 7,176.

 

[The Great Dane]

Some good points here. You are right about the Titans in 2007. If I remember correctly the NRL rushed through a team to get in before the AFL who were trying to get North Melbourne to relocate. In hindsight, we should have added Brisbane 2 and then committed to bringing multiple NRL games to the GC and focusing on the three QLD Cup teams in the region. We would have maintained our status as the # 1 sport even with the Suns in town.

Nah it was more to do with the courts forcing Souths back into the comp and the NRL having to rush expansion to have an even number of clubs in the competition again.

Though the AFL was almost certainly trying to get clubs interested in the GC at the time they didn't really force the issue until a couple of years after the Titans were admitted into the comp (09ish if I'm remembering correctly), and frankly around that time (03, 04, 05) there was more push in the AFL to get the Kangaroos to relocate to Canberra, though they were probably still trying to convince other clubs like the Demons to look into the GC at the time.

Frankly all of the subsequent issues around the GC, etc could have been avoided if after the court ruling forcing the NRL to take the Rabbitohs back was overturned they just kicked them straight back out of the comp, but the NRL was scared to kick them back out for multiple reasons, and I can understand a lot of those reasons to be fair, but you know short term pain long term gain and all that.

And again the NRL couldn't expand to Brisbane even if they wanted too at the time and there were no serious bids from Brisbane at the time anyway...

 

[T-Boon]

Hopefully one day Melbourne Storm start working on developing Melbourne as per the whole point of their existence and the Titans might be able to claim a few of the great SQ players.
You have to wonder how the Titans would be placed if they had of had use of a couple of players from the Cam Smith, Cronk, Folau, stable.

 

[Perth Red]

Hopefully one day Melbourne Storm start working on developing Melbourne as per the whole point of their existence and the Titans might be able to claim a few of the great SQ players.
You have to wonder how the Titans would be placed if they had of had use of a couple of players from the Cam Smith, Cronk, Folau, stable.

Whilst NRl clubs undoubtedly have a big part to play in being the pointy end of awareness and ambition for young players, it is the job of NRLVic to be developing the game in Victoria. That's been part of the games grassroots stunting imo, relying on NRL clubs to be responsible for grassroots development.

Much better the NRL funds NRLVic a decent amount to develop grassroots within a national strategy and let the Storm concentrate on their core business, being a successful professional sports club.

 

[Vee]

Hopefully one day Melbourne Storm start working on developing Melbourne as per the whole point of their existence and the Titans might be able to claim a few of the great SQ players.
You have to wonder how the Titans would be placed if they had of had use of a couple of players from the Cam Smith, Cronk, Folau, stable.

And Bellamy had been their coach. And they’d had a suite of sponsors like the Storm and the board and CEO to make it work. If only....

 

[Rabbitoad]

Yeah, I've said a few times that the licence should be a "South Queensland" one instead of just the Gold Coast.

Train out of the GC, play at Suncorp.

Would draw bigger crowds, create better corporate/TPA opportunities and it's only an hour away from Gold Coast, so you'd still get a chunk of current fans who'd make home games.

Then play one or two games, plus trials out of Robina and they'd be set.

 

[Vee]

Yeah, I've said a few times that the licence should be a "South Queensland" one instead of just the Gold Coast.

Train out of the GC, play at Suncorp.

Would draw bigger crowds, create better corporate/TPA opportunities and it's only an hour away from Gold Coast, so you'd still get a chunk of current fans who'd make home games.

Then play one or two games, plus trials out of Robina and they'd be set.

The South Queensland Crushers perhaps?

 

[Perth Red]

Yeah, I've said a few times that the licence should be a "South Queensland" one instead of just the Gold Coast.

Train out of the GC, play at Suncorp.

Would draw bigger crowds, create better corporate/TPA opportunities and it's only an hour away from Gold Coast, so you'd still get a chunk of current fans who'd make home games.

Then play one or two games, plus trials out of Robina and they'd be set.

That’d be like saying have a team based in Gosford, but have them play in Sydney. Makes no sense. The titans owners need to reboot and re engage and quickly.

 

[Stormwarrior82]

I think the big thing that hasn’t been spoken about is the lack of success. Qlders are use to winning and titans haven’t done that. If they had a few years of competing with the big teams and making finals I think the gc fans would start coming back. I don’t think any owner would have direct impact on onfield success.

Also the afl and suns are sitting in a much worse position than the titans. Afl supplement the suns by $25+mil. Titans get there standard club funding of $10mil and a overall rugby league city and state. Maybe a big name Falou type player would help get them back on track?

 

[johnny plath]

Whilst NRl clubs undoubtedly have a big part to play in being the pointy end of awareness and ambition for young players, it is the job of NRLVic to be developing the game in Victoria. That's been part of the games grassroots stunting imo, relying on NRL clubs to be responsible for grassroots development.

Much better the NRL funds NRLVic a decent amount to develop grassroots within a national strategy and let the Storm concentrate on their core business, being a successful professional sports club.

this is happening. Victoria has teams in Qld Colts u20s state league comp, and u18s Mal Meninga comp. Not sure how many are Storm contracted players though, guess doesn't really matter, but at least these kids are getting to play footy at a decent level with an opportunity to progress. Victoria also has a couple of elite rugby league schools that play in schoolboy cup comp as well now, so things are happening.