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Suburbanomics: Why NRL clubs can't afford to return to suburban grounds

The Nick

Bench
Messages
2,660
Suburbanomics: Why NRL clubs can't afford to return to suburban grounds

It will cost St George Illawarra more than $100,000 to unlock the gates at Kogarah Jubilee Oval for Sunday's match against Newcastle.
Had they played the same match at ANZ Stadium, the Dragons would receive $150,000 for simply walking in the door.

The equation wasn't much better for Wests Tigers at Leichhardt Oval on Friday night, with operational costs for the match against Melbourne estimated at between $65,000 and $85,000.
Canterbury also incurred costs of $80,000 to host last Sunday's match against Cronulla at Belmore Sports Ground, with the Bulldogs having to pay for fencing, security, big screen televisions and police.
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All of those expenses are covered by ANZ Stadium when Canterbury and other clubs, including South Sydney, St George Illawarra, Wests Tigers and Parramatta, play home games there.
For all of the hype about suburban grounds, it is financially unsustainable for clubs to play all of their games at those venues.
"The numbers aren't quite as good as people would think they are because they think it costs stuff all to open the gates at Belmore and therefore you have got 20,000 tickets that you can make money from but that is far from the reality," Canterbury chief executive Raelene Castle said.

Dragons chief executive Peter Doust added: "The local grounds are very cost ineffective because they don't have the infrastructure that the big stadiums can offer."

PROFITABILITY

The Bulldogs, who have a different deal with ANZ Stadium than the Dragons as they play the majority of their home games there, made a six figure profit from the match against the Sharks and another match at Belmore Sport Ground against Melbourne in June.

Given that the clash with the Storm was played on a Monday night and would have only attracted about half the 16,764 crowd if it had been played at ANZ Stadium, Canterbury officials consider their first premiership match at what is now the club's training base since 1998 to be a financial success and they also did well from merchandise sales.

With 19,005 fans attending last Sunday's match against Cronulla, the Bulldogs also made a profit but it is likely they may have drawn a bigger crowd at ANZ Stadium without the added costs associated with playing at Belmore, which included $35,000 in fencing alone.

"It was a massive success and it is not always about making money," Castle said. "To give our fans an experience at Belmore that their parents and grandparents talked about was very important from a brand perspective, a marketing perspective and an historical perspective but it doesn't mean that you take 12 games a season there."

As Canterbury have 18,189 members, officials had to estimate how many would go to the game before they could determine the number of tickets on sale to the public.

The Dragons boast 18,072 members and Doust said the club's Right Game Right Venue strategy was aimed at maximising crowds for games against big drawing Sydney clubs such as the Bulldogs, Rabbitohs (35,270 members) and Roosters (16,493), while playing other matches at Kogarah and WIN Stadium.

"The bigger brands have to play at bigger capacity venues and we will never be able to grow if we don't offer our members those sorts of amenities and facilities," Doust said.

Wests Tigers acting CEO Phil Moss said fans enjoyed being closer to the action at Leichhardt Oval or Campbelltown Stadium and playing at those venues maintained the joint venture's heritage links with Balmain and Western Suburbs but ANZ Stadium offered guaranteed revenue and opportunities for reciprocal ticketing deals with other clubs.

FACILITIES

The NSW Government has announced plans to spend $600 million on stadium infrastructure in Sydney, which is expected to include the rebuilding of Allianz Stadium into a 65,000 seat venue, improvements to ANZ Stadium and a stadium in the west.

Fairfax Media has been told that a site near Rosehill Racecourse was discussed but an upgrade of Parramatta Stadium is considered more likely.

The NRL has been told that there will be no funding for other suburban grounds in the foreseeable future, and is backing the three-stadium policy.

"The new stadia is going to be wi-fi supported, it is going to have all these fantastic food and beverage options and customer satisfaction improvements so who is going to be able to sustain keeping those suburban grounds as far as that is concerned," Doust said.

While Canterbury officials intend to play one or two matches against non-Sydney clubs at Belmore next season, depending on the draw, they believe fans would quickly tire of the queues for toilets, food and drinks, and the lack of parking if the club was to play there more regularly.

"I fundamentally believe in the NRL strategy of going to to better quality world-class stadiums with good seats and entertainment options, plenty of food and drink outlets, wi-fi, big screens and information being pushed to your phone," Castle said. "All of that is where the game needs to go so there is no doubt in my mind that the NSW Government needs to spend some money on making ANZ a world class stadium.

"There is also a place for Bulldogs fans to have a fairytale game back at Belmore where people go back to their roots and have a great time but I wouldn't want anyone to think the we could play all our games there. The first time it rains and you have got 60 or 70 per cent of your crowd sitting out in the pouring rain wouldn't be much fun and it is never going to have the modern infrastructure like the big stadiums."​

THE FUTURE

The NRL is in discussions with broadcasters about playing Monday night matches in country towns or at smaller venues as attendances have been poor but ratings good for the concept.

The National Youth Competition is also set to be replaced by state-based Under 20s competitions that would be run alongside the NSW and Queensland Cup competitions, which could mean that just NRL matches become stand alone fixtures – as happens in the English Premier League and the NFL.

If that were to occur, Doust said it may become more financially viable to play at suburban grounds.

"It all gets back to sustainability of footy clubs and the economics of the games these days," Doust said. "If you were only to play one game and therefore only have to open the ground and staff it and traffic manage it for a lesser period then you could reduce the costs."

However, Castle said suburban grounds would always be more expensive.

"The reason grounds like Kogarah are so expensive is because no one uses them so the people who own them have to make sure they make a lot of money every time the gates are opened whereas ANZ Stadium and Allianz Stadium get used 100 nights a year for functions, games and concerts so it is a different formula," she said.

Despite Wests Tigers planning to establish a Centre of Excellence at Liverpool or Campbelltown, Moss indicated the club was likely to continue playing at Leichhardt Oval and Campbelltown Stadium, as well as ANZ Stadium.

"Both councils [Leichhardt and Campbelltown] have always worked together with the Wests Tigers year by year regarding the hire of the stadiums and the long-term future is yet to be decided," Moss said.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...an-grounds-20150731-giooep.html#ixzz3hi7WSh64
 

hardbaby

Coach
Messages
18,557
A understand the economics but footy is about the fans. Nothing beats atmosphere. The NRL should subsidise some games at traditional heartlands. It's good for the community. It respects tradition. It reminds people that there is more to life than the idiot box. They have heaps of cash. Spend it.
 

Emu01

Juniors
Messages
833
As long as we have at least have 4 or more at kogarah and win.I can understand the cost is high for suburban grounds but don't leave permanently cos that will be the end of us..

I want to know why Doust took our Home game against the Roosters and played them at their home ground that was a major stuff up..Why not cowboys or Melbourne but to gift them 1 more home game was disgusting! I went to that game and all the roosters fans were laughing at the dragons for handing them a home game..
The referees even gave the majority of penalties to roosters thinking they were the home team..Shocking for the dragon fan that night..
 

64 Dragon

Coach
Messages
11,249
A understand the economics but footy is about the fans. Nothing beats atmosphere. The NRL should subsidise some games at traditional heartlands. It's good for the community. It respects tradition. It reminds people that there is more to life than the idiot box. They have heaps of cash. Spend it.


No offence HB, but footy is not about the fans. It's about MONEY!
One example being that we have sold out to the TV stations.
 

Slippery Morris

First Grade
Messages
8,103
10,200+ at Kogarah yesterday. Shows that Saints have more to lose playing at suburban grounds than ANZ.

Maybe take the Bulldogs approach and play 2 games at Kogarah a year as marquee games. How sad would that be but yesterday showed people just don't go to Kogarah not even on a sunny Sunday afternoon. Trrible crowd figures.
 

Mr Red

First Grade
Messages
6,193
i would have hoped that the NRL securing a multi billion dollar TV deal would have meant annual funding being injected back into clubs to use to renovate the suburban grounds to meet required standards...
but that would go against their real agenda.....
 
Last edited:

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
111,129
The figures are pretty funny, and seem to change depending on which way the wind is blowing. And every article seems have new amazing $$$ amounts to back up their argument... but for some reason don't match the previous article on this subject.

It's also funny how these articles seem to pop up when we play at Kogarah, especially when we are expecting a less than bumper crowd.

But not as funny as the articles that talk of fans being locked out because of the bumper crowd. "Won't anyone think of the Masons? Please, someone think of the Masons!!!"
 

Get2dachopper!

Juniors
Messages
1,753
The way I see the Sydney teams;
-Parramatta, Penrith: Can afford to play out of their home grounds, they have leagues clubs making money and contributing to the footy teams
- Bulldogs: As above regarding leagues clubs, however still playing out of ANZ for even more financial incentive
-Souths: Not much backing from souths Juniors, rusty pulls the plug and relocates to ANZ. I cant count how many times rusty has said that he isn't making a profit out of bunnies, and at one stage was losing money
- Roosters; backed by people who are literally billionaires, not just millionaires
- Manly backed by millionaires,
- Sharks: Mooted as the poorest Sydney club, up until that redevelopment was approved. Sydney property prices will surely help the sharks!
- Dragons: Two aging leagues clubs who have reduced contributions to the footy team
- Tigers: Probably worse off financially that the Dragons.

The common theme is, unless your leagues club is making bucket loads of money and/or you have other streams of revenue (i.e. wealthy supporters) you really don't have any other choice but to play more games at these big stadiums. Yes we are not all privy to the exact figures playing at anz vs suburban grounds. But all I know is that the successful Sydney teams are playing out of the big stadiums. It has to count for something.

We are in a very difficult position, because we need to satisfy two supporter bases. Maybe the Dragons need to look into a venture with an A-league soccer team like Parramatta did and share Kogarah. This was talked about 6 months ago.
 

saintjeff

Juniors
Messages
515
When you play out of town teams at kogarah what do u expect
What crowd did we get v sharks more than 16/000 when we were winnning .
Yesterday we had lost 7 in a row and the knights have been crap , so thats why we had a low crowd.
Why give scum like dogs and chooks more of a advantage.
Look at the chooks 13/000 v dogs thats a shit crowd
Play a sydney team at kogarah and the fans will come
 

rainman44

Bench
Messages
3,189
When you play out of town teams at kogarah what do u expect
What crowd did we get v sharks more than 16/000 when we were winnning .
Yesterday we had lost 7 in a row and the knights have been crap , so thats why we had a low crowd.
Why give scum like dogs and chooks more of a advantage.
Look at the chooks 13/000 v dogs thats a shit crowd
Play a sydney team at kogarah and the fans will come

I agree, it was 18 000 against the sharks i think.
 

FlameThrower

Bench
Messages
3,557
10,200+ at Kogarah yesterday. Shows that Saints have more to lose playing at suburban grounds than ANZ.

Maybe take the Bulldogs approach and play 2 games at Kogarah a year as marquee games. How sad would that be but yesterday showed people just don't go to Kogarah not even on a sunny Sunday afternoon. Trrible crowd figures.

Agreed, poor turn out, but Knights are an out of town team? If it had been Tigers or Bulldogs you would have got 18000 easy.

I think the writing is on wall for these home grounds, all this noise about the home grounds, but when the push comes to shove the crowds did not attend!

For what it's worth, I loved it metres from the action, sunny arvo, riding every play....Fire Up Saints...I kept saying....with the Dragons army just behind me on the hill!
 

Saintsified

Bench
Messages
3,558
suburban grounds need to be left for reserve grade....watching Tigers last week and the picnic going on the hill is disgraceful....too much grass can be seen.
 

zombiebloodlust

Juniors
Messages
826
Dragons chief executive Peter Doust added: "The local grounds are very cost ineffective because they don't have the infrastructure that the big stadiums can offer."
And the grandstand has concrete cancer, right?

Just take the easy way out, as usual.
Sell off your home for a few shekels.
Sell off your identity for a few shekels.

Beats workin'
 

Mr Red

First Grade
Messages
6,193
Just curious... What exactly is the NRL's "real agenda"?
to play all games in 4 or 5 key "big" venues across the country - to the point where the traditional weekend round of footy no longer exists.
to maximise TV ratings ideally the NRL want to have a game of football on every night of the week, and to support this they think playing at the big venues is the only way to go.
 
Messages
4,000
Am sure that playing less games at Kogarah and Wollongong ensures we don't get our fair share of the 50/50 calls.

Winning games fills grounds simple as that.

A full jubilee oval with a competitive side provides an atmosphere you cannot hope to emulate at Homebush.

The suburban ground and tribalism is part of our DNA.

Would love an explanation of what constitutes infrastructure.

Are we talking about easy access to trains ? So Carlton and Kogarah railway station are too far away from Jubilee ?

Or is it the lack of parking ? Oh wait a minute the Club's parking area and the school across the road are too far away from Jubilee.

The Club should access a large parking site and offer a shuttle service to home games if this is really a problem.

Playing in all red at Kogarah ? Why Peter, soon you'll be telling us that the red V is not a recognisable "brand".

Wake up you idiot, give the fans what they want. Home games at home !
 

lafai

Bench
Messages
2,810
I'm fine with 2 games a year at Belmore, it sounds like you guys want like 10 games at Win and Oki lol
 

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