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John ribot on sterlo...

Hello, I'm The Doctor

First Grade
Messages
9,124
It was a bastard to find but I’m glad I went to the effort. Was too young to remember Super League but it sounded like a crazy time from what I’d seen and read elsewhere. Would be awesome if they made a series out of it. They should considering how massive the whole thing was and the impact that it had on every club, player, offical and fan.

If it was done well, i think the series could give the whole thin a cathartic ending...

For people who lived through it, i think it was a bit like staggering out of a bad dream and just starting again like nothing happened. Nobody "won" and everybody felt a little used and whored.

A series could rearrange the events and create a narrative that reflects some great victory of the fundamental of RL. If the Americans can turn their Civil War into a kind of "national birth", surely we can do something with SL.

Sport is all about its myths. SL has the potential to be our biggest "moment of glory" if we would just take control of the narrative...
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
If it was done well, i think the series could give the whole thin a cathartic ending...

For people who lived through it, i think it was a bit like staggering out of a bad dream and just starting again like nothing happened. Nobody "won" and everybody felt a little used and whored.

A series could rearrange the events and create a narrative that reflects some great victory of the fundamental of RL. If the Americans can turn their Civil War into a kind of "national birth", surely we can do something with SL.

Sport is all about its myths. SL has the potential to be our biggest "moment of glory" if we would just take control of the narrative...

Their was a winner! The people/organisations that wanted to weaken rugby league.
 

Vee

First Grade
Messages
5,777
If it was done well, i think the series could give the whole thin a cathartic ending...

For people who lived through it, i think it was a bit like staggering out of a bad dream and just starting again like nothing happened. Nobody "won" and everybody felt a little used and whored.

A series could rearrange the events and create a narrative that reflects some great victory of the fundamental of RL. If the Americans can turn their Civil War into a kind of "national birth", surely we can do something with SL.

Sport is all about its myths. SL has the potential to be our biggest "moment of glory" if we would just take control of the narrative...
Yeah, and I have enormous faith in our leadership's ability to manage that.
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,969
If it was done well, i think the series could give the whole thin a cathartic ending...

For people who lived through it, i think it was a bit like staggering out of a bad dream and just starting again like nothing happened. Nobody "won" and everybody felt a little used and whored.

A series could rearrange the events and create a narrative that reflects some great victory of the fundamental of RL. If the Americans can turn their Civil War into a kind of "national birth", surely we can do something with SL.

Sport is all about its myths. SL has the potential to be our biggest "moment of glory" if we would just take control of the narrative...

News Ltd won, just look at the clubs after the truce was called:

Super League:

Cronulla
Penrith
Canterbury
Brisbane
Nth Qld
Auckland
Canberra
all survived

Hunter, Perth and Adelaide merged to form the Melbourne Storm


ARL:

Roosters - survived due to Politis
Parramatta - key area
Newcastle - key area

Souths - refused to merge kicked out
Manly - merged
Norths -merged
St.George - merged
Illawarra - merged
Sth Qld - kicked out
Gold Coast - kicked out
Balmain - merged
Wests - merged


Seems clear to me who won.
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
News Ltd won, just look at the clubs after the truce was called:

Super League:

Cronulla
Penrith
Canterbury
Brisbane
Nth Qld
Auckland
Canberra
all survived

Hunter, Perth and Adelaide merged to form the Melbourne Storm


ARL:

Roosters - survived due to Politis
Parramatta - key area
Newcastle - key area

Souths - refused to merge kicked out
Manly - merged
Norths -merged
St.George - merged
Illawarra - merged
Sth Qld - kicked out
Gold Coast - kicked out
Balmain - merged
Wests - merged


Seems clear to me who won.

And to think that epic Newcastle v Manly grandfinal had won the public over en masse and the ARL capitulated like that! Incompetent ! But also shame on the superleague clubs for being a big part of what they did to this great and envied (internationally ) competition. To think that the strategic mentality was to carve up established clubs following the flawed logic that less is better was preposterous!
 

axl rose

Bench
Messages
4,964
The decisions were made like dividing up business, devoid of the emotion that makes sport and business so different.

Correct. As was the decision to allow Super League on appeal on the question of the Trade Practices Act. The legal world nodded their head while those with a shred of common sense were rather bewildered.
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
7,524
The damage that organisation has done to rugby league and the leg up its achieved for other rival codes has been News Ltd's charter for a boss that doesn't like rugby league .
Yes, all at a time when RL was the back-bone of establishing News Corps pay TV service in Australia
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
Yes, all at a time when RL was the back-bone of establishing News Corps pay TV service in Australia

Yes. And they(NewsLtd ) have no shame in weakening this fantastic competition that is the flagship of rugby league worldwide. I believe rugby union's tricksters are at work again behind the scenes. Even on this very website we have 'contributors' doing rugby union's deceitful and despicable deflection work. But try getting that out as general public knowledge! Lol.
 

Hello, I'm The Doctor

First Grade
Messages
9,124
News Ltd won, just look at the clubs after the truce was called:

Super League:

Cronulla
Penrith
Canterbury
Brisbane
Nth Qld
Auckland
Canberra
all survived

Hunter, Perth and Adelaide merged to form the Melbourne Storm


ARL:

Roosters - survived due to Politis
Parramatta - key area
Newcastle - key area

Souths - refused to merge kicked out
Manly - merged
Norths -merged
St.George - merged
Illawarra - merged
Sth Qld - kicked out
Gold Coast - kicked out
Balmain - merged
Wests - merged


Seems clear to me who won.

Just looking at this, it makes me sad how much opportunity there was in the 1998 reconstruction that was absolutely squandered...

Even accepting the power-balance that saw NewsLtd get everything they wanted, we should have held onto Hunter/Perth/Adelaide and brought in Melbourne. Then offer the ARL clubs a secure spot if they merge with these clubs and move to these locations.

Hunter + Bears (moved to Central Coast)
Adelaide + Wests/Balmain/Manly/Souths
Perth + Balmain/Wests/Manly/Souths
Melbourne + Balmain/Wests/Manly/Souths

StGeorge-Illawarra shows merges can work very well. Wests-Balmain and North-Manly show that this cousin f*cking merge of Sydney suburbs works less well. If they had taken the bones of the SL national comp and offered these lifelines to the ARL Sydney clubs, we would have come out of the SL war with the National comp everyone wanted.

Honestly, between getting half a brand and staying close to their home suburb or keeping the full brand/taking almost full control of the team/moving to an expanison location, i cant believe more Sydney clubs didnt take this up...
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
Just looking at this, it makes me sad how much opportunity there was in the 1998 reconstruction that was absolutely squandered...

Even accepting the power-balance that saw NewsLtd get everything they wanted, we should have held onto Hunter/Perth/Adelaide and brought in Melbourne. Then offer the ARL clubs a secure spot if they merge with these clubs and move to these locations.

Hunter + Bears (moved to Central Coast)
Adelaide + Wests/Balmain/Manly/Souths
Perth + Balmain/Wests/Manly/Souths
Melbourne + Balmain/Wests/Manly/Souths

StGeorge-Illawarra shows merges can work very well. Wests-Balmain and North-Manly show that this cousin f*cking merge of Sydney suburbs works less well. If they had taken the bones of the SL national comp and offered these lifelines to the ARL Sydney clubs, we would have come out of the SL war with the National comp everyone wanted.

Honestly, between getting half a brand and staying close to their home suburb or keeping the full brand/taking almost full control of the team/moving to an expanison location, i cant believe more Sydney clubs didnt take this up...

You just detailed out a blueprint for disaster! Quite consistent stuff from you though Doctor!
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
73,532
Just looking at this, it makes me sad how much opportunity there was in the 1998 reconstruction that was absolutely squandered...

Even accepting the power-balance that saw NewsLtd get everything they wanted, we should have held onto Hunter/Perth/Adelaide and brought in Melbourne. Then offer the ARL clubs a secure spot if they merge with these clubs and move to these locations.

Hunter + Bears (moved to Central Coast)
Adelaide + Wests/Balmain/Manly/Souths
Perth + Balmain/Wests/Manly/Souths
Melbourne + Balmain/Wests/Manly/Souths

StGeorge-Illawarra shows merges can work very well. Wests-Balmain and North-Manly show that this cousin f*cking merge of Sydney suburbs works less well. If they had taken the bones of the SL national comp and offered these lifelines to the ARL Sydney clubs, we would have come out of the SL war with the National comp everyone wanted.

Honestly, between getting half a brand and staying close to their home suburb or keeping the full brand/taking almost full control of the team/moving to an expanison location, i cant believe more Sydney clubs didnt take this up...

Should have been a 16 team comp with the first names out of the hat being:

Perth
Adelaide
NZ
Brisbane
SQ
NQ
Canberra
Newcastle
Relocation of a Sydney club to Gosford
Relocation of a Sydney club to Melbourne
Then let the remaining Sydney clubs fight over the 6 spots. Either via merger or stand alone bids
 

Hello, I'm The Doctor

First Grade
Messages
9,124
You just detailed out a blueprint for disaster! Quite consistent stuff from you though Doctor!

Why, it seems like exactly what you want...

Sydney teams protected, those big brand that they built in the "70s TV revolution" the foundation of the game going forward. If it is all about the national awareness, why does it matter that they arent playing in their shitty suburban ground?

I guess it doesnt feel like RL when there is a decent crowd watching...
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
8,029
News Ltd won, just look at the clubs after the truce was called:

Super League:

Cronulla
Penrith
Canterbury
Brisbane
Nth Qld
Auckland
Canberra
all survived

Hunter, Perth and Adelaide merged to form the Melbourne Storm


ARL:

Roosters - survived due to Politis
Parramatta - key area
Newcastle - key area

Souths - refused to merge kicked out
Manly - merged
Norths -merged
St.George - merged
Illawarra - merged
Sth Qld - kicked out
Gold Coast - kicked out
Balmain - merged
Wests - merged


Seems clear to me who won.

News did win the war, but it had nothing to do with the clubs, they didn't really care what clubs were in the comp apart from the big city clubs that they owned (Broncos and Storm) and making sure they were protected, it was all about the exclusive pay tv rights and making sure they had them for the foreseeable future, everything else was secondary.

BTW, using your logic the war was a draw, and the bold is factually incorrect...
 
Last edited:

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
8,029
Just looking at this, it makes me sad how much opportunity there was in the 1998 reconstruction that was absolutely squandered...

Even accepting the power-balance that saw NewsLtd get everything they wanted, we should have held onto Hunter/Perth/Adelaide and brought in Melbourne. Then offer the ARL clubs a secure spot if they merge with these clubs and move to these locations.

Hunter + Bears (moved to Central Coast)
Adelaide + Wests/Balmain/Manly/Souths
Perth + Balmain/Wests/Manly/Souths
Melbourne + Balmain/Wests/Manly/Souths

All of these mergers would have failed just like all the others did, they all would have ended either as a hostile takeover that doesn't meet it's original goals (St.George-Illawarra), with constant infighting that completely cripples the club (Wests), or with the clubs conspiring to murder one another in the hopes of claiming the license for themselves (Northern Eagles).

There's also no way of controlling the outcome once the merger has happened, in other words there's no way to make sure that the Rams get the upper hand and keep it over the Magpies, and control the club and make sure that it's commitment too Adelaide, which you'd desperately need in an expansion area.

StGeorge-Illawarra shows merges can work very well.

The Dragons-Steelers mergers has been a complete failure!

It was initially planned that the merger would maintain the Dragons brand and history but keep the competitions presence in Wollongong, it was also planned that the number of the Dragons games in Sydney would be reduced over time and number in Wollongong would grow over time (it was intended that only a handful of classic Dragons rivalries would continue in Sydney, literally 2-3 games a year), neither of those things has happened, in fact the exact opposite has happened.

The St.George-Illawarra merger has turned into a hostile takeover, basically the Dragons agreed to all these things, but once they got into the merger they strong armed the Steelers, took complete control, then cannibalised them, right down to the point that they have been slowly wiping away the Illawarra presence in the lower leagues and replacing it with the Dragons.
They basically did the exact same thing that Manly did to the Bears (and the Bears attempted to do to Manly to be fair) they just haven't been as blatant about it...

Wests-Balmain and North-Manly show that this cousin f*cking merge of Sydney suburbs works less well. If they had taken the bones of the SL national comp and offered these lifelines to the ARL Sydney clubs, we would have come out of the SL war with the National comp everyone wanted.

Honestly, between getting half a brand and staying close to their home suburb or keeping the full brand/taking almost full control of the team/moving to an expanison location, i cant believe more Sydney clubs didnt take this up...

It all would have failed cause the Sydney clubs wouldn't have accepted it, and even if they did make it to the point of actually merging with the other clubs, all the clubs would have reacted just like how they did in the Sydney mergers, only their failures would have had national consequences instead of only compounding pre-existing problems.
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
Why, it seems like exactly what you want...

Sydney teams protected, those big brand that they built in the "70s TV revolution" the foundation of the game going forward. If it is all about the national awareness, why does it matter that they arent playing in their shitty suburban ground?

I guess it doesnt feel like RL when there is a decent crowd watching...

It matters because their is culture and real people involved . People that have followed a well known and loved club for generations. As a Roosters fan Im very disappointed to this day that they call themselves Sydney instead of East Sydney and Im no fan of them migrating to the Central Coast instead of revitalizing their own area. These things matter to fans. The credibility of clubs are based on things like locality, colours, history, longevity, familiarity and accessable reasonable priced entertainment for the attending fan. These things are tangible and don't just go away?! You take things like that away and you destroy the respect and credibility of the clubs and consequently the competition.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
8,029
Should have been a 16 team comp with the first names out of the hat being:

Perth
Adelaide
NZ
Brisbane
SQ
NQ
Canberra
Newcastle
Relocation of a Sydney club to Gosford
Relocation of a Sydney club to Melbourne
Then let the remaining Sydney clubs fight over the 6 spots. Either via merger or stand alone bids

Pretty much exactly what should have happened, there're only a few things that I either would have done differently or would need to be done differently for practical reasons.

Firstly, I wouldn't have bothered with the relocation to Melbourne, mainly cause none of the Sydney clubs would have taken it at the time anyway (maybe if they knew what we now know they would have, but they didn't know what we now know at the time, and all of them bar the Bears were stubborn about staying in Sydney, and there's no way you could have convinced the Bears to move to Melbourne, not after investing everything they had into the CC, the stadium and stuff), and secondly cause News never would have allowed it, they were all in on the Storm and Broncos.

Secondly I wouldn't have bothered trying to save the Crushers, News weren't having it.
One of their main criteria of the peace talks was only the Broncos in Brisbane, it was one of their deal breakers, if they didn't get that there was no peace and no NRL, and the Crushers were screwed anyway, they were broke, the ARL couldn't afford to support them, and News wouldn't support them, so you would have had lots of trouble saving them anyway.
I would have pushed hard to save the Chargers instead, I feel that News would have relented on the Chargers, they had bigger priorities like making sure that there was only one club in Brisbane and making sure that the Melbourne club came in and that they had control of it, and the Chargers had heaps of potential, in fact they are the only GC club that I feel had any great potential (to date), and they weren't broke and could have supported themselves. But even if News wouldn't relent on the Chargers (which is a distinct possibility cause ideally they wanted the Broncos to be the only club in South Queensland) then you've got the Steelers or worst case scenario another Sydney club willing to take their place.

Also the Reds would have posed a problem.
They were broke and after News pulled their funding they were stuffed, and the ARL didn't have the money to support them (nor would they have cause of the politics of the time), so unless we could find some way of supporting them they were dead (such as a finding a rich benefactor, increased sponsorship, extra money direct from the broadcasters for their participation, all of which would have been possible, but if it was really realistic it probably would have happened in the real world).
So that makes Perth a bit of a conundrum, maybe a relocation is possible, but for reasons I stated earlier that relocated club wasn't coming from a Sydney, and the only realistic options I can think of for a relocation (if we grant that the Chargers stay on the GC) is relocating the Mariners to Perth and giving them the Reds brand (which would have been possible, but would have been very shaky foundations for the club), and the only option would have been a new club being started up with new investors (which is an even more shaky proposition when taking the times into account).
Basically what I'm saying is there may have been no way of saving the Reds or a club in Perth...

I also would have engineered which Sydney clubs survived and which didn't and on what terms they did or didn't survive, instead of letting them fight over the remaining spots.
Also if I was in power and knew what I now know I wouldn't have allowed mergers either, believe it or not I actually supported mergers back then, pretty much everyone did, we saw it as a way to save as many clubs as possible, the only merger I didn't support was the Bears-Eagles merger mainly cause I was a Bears fan and the idea of joining with Manly was repulsive, and because as a fan of the Bears and like most Bears fand, I held out hope that the relocation to Gosford would save us (which was a reasonable hope at the time given that we'd been told that if we relocated we'd be spared from rationalisation), also anybody with eyes could see that Manly and Norths merging was asking for trouble...
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
8,029
It matters because their is culture and real people involved . People that have followed a well known and loved club for generations. As a Roosters fan Im very disappointed to this day that they call themselves Sydney instead of East Sydney and Im no fan of them migrating to the Central Coast instead of revitalizing their own area. These things matter to fans. The credibility of clubs are based on things like locality, colours, history, longevity, familiarity and accessable reasonable priced entertainment for the attending fan. These things are tangible and don't just go away?! You take things like that away and you destroy the respect and credibility of the clubs and consequently the competition.

Uh oh you're showing your true age again...

When were the Eastern Suburbs Roosters ever know as "East Sydney"...
 

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