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2018 Crowd Watch

Billythekid

First Grade
Messages
6,560
It's a bit of a myth that crowds aren't important for the NRL or clubs in terms of revenue. Let's do a quick comparison with our direct rival.

The AFL season attendance was around 6.7 million. The NRL's around 2.9 million. A difference of 3.8 million. Let's say the average ticket price was $20 per ticket. That would equate to 76 million dollars worth of revenue per year. Just ticket sales, that's ignoring any other potential benefits from bigger crowds.

Over a 5 year period that's 380 million dollars. Hardly chump change when you consider the total TV deal is worth 2 billion dollars.

Obviously that's incredibly simplified but my point is crowd revenue is hardly irrelevant.

I'm sure if you compare the average revenue of an AFL club vs an NRL club you'd see just how much difference crowd revenue makes.

No myth fact

800 million revenue, 100 million gates receipts.

1/8 income, does even cover the wages of the players.

https://www.forbes.com/teams/dallas-cowboys.

But hey bang on about crowds.

A few things here. Firstly you're comparing sports of different scales. Fact is there is a limit to how much money you can make from crowds because realistically stadiums only reach a certain size. So whether you're a sport with a market of 1 billion people or a sport with a market of 1 million people you can still really only average an absolute maximum of around 100K (depends how big your stadium is).

TV revenue on the other hand isn't capped like that because you can have as many people that are interested watching. So basically the bigger the sport the bigger the gap is going to be between how much they make from crowds and TV.

Basically percentage wise smaller comps have more to gain from crowd revenue.

Let's do some quick googling and numbers. The NFL averages around 15 million TV viewers per game and around 70K spectators per game.

Let's be generous and say the average NRL game averages 500K on TV. That's 1/30th of the NFL. Our crowds on the other hand are between 1/5th or 1/4 of their crowds. There is only so much you can make up for this by increasing ticket prices.

The NRL has more to gain from big crowds than the NFL simply because of the difference in scale.

The reality is the bulk of the money comes from the Tv stations.If Tv ratings continued to be crap over the years, we'd end up with rah rah type deals.

Why does it have to be one or the other? Our direct competitor seems to be able to rate just as well as us without having to sacrifice crowds. If anything I'd argue that bigger crowds would only lead to bigger ratings due to it improving the product on TV.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,402
Straw man argument. We arent going to drop from 1million to 50k viewers because of fan friendly scheduling!
A drop in 150k viewers, if it happened, would make little difference to tv deal but dropping thurs and fri 6pm and having three games on a Sunday afternoon could make a massive difference to the decent sized clubs revenue.

Our rivals managed a fan friendly schedule, more money and with less tv viewers. Go figure!

And the majority of the revenue for a club doesn’t come from the tv deal in most cases. Even the smallest clubs like yours made $13.5mill from fans and sponsors compared to $8.5million from tv grant last year.

Think you've been reading too many Great D's posts.
What are you talking about .I'm stating the overwhelming majority ATM comes from TV monies that is unarguable, a plain fact.
I've always argued fan friendly scheduling brings in more families and hence improve crowds.I've always wanted a better schedule than we've got now.Eg playing a Dragoons v Sharks on a Thursday night.A local derby ,it's plain dumb.
A substantial drop in the viewing audience is an argument for the Tv stations to play hard ball, and increase or at least maintaining your current ratings gives the Nrl better bargaining power.
Dumb comment without the Tv grant of $13m which comes from the NRL's majority revenue,which is the core of the argument,many clubs including the Sharks would be in real trouble.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,402
It's a bit of a myth that crowds aren't important for the NRL or clubs in terms of revenue. Let's do a quick comparison with our direct rival.`

Never stated one moment crowds weren't important for club revenue.You're going off the ramp.

The AFL season attendance was around 6.7 million. The NRL's around 2.9 million. A difference of 3.8 million. Let's say the average ticket price was $20 per ticket. That would equate to 76 million dollars worth of revenue per year. Just ticket sales, that's ignoring any other potential benefits from bigger crowds.

Your doing a lot of hypotheticals with a code that has a historic record of huge crowds even by comparison with other countries.

Over a 5 year period that's 380 million dollars. Hardly chump change when you consider the total TV deal is worth 2 billion dollars.

Obviously that's incredibly simplified but my point is crowd revenue is hardly irrelevant.


You're right it is incredibly simplified, and the comparison ,for a start based on their huge crowds hardly comparing apples with apples.

I'm sure if you compare the average revenue of an AFL club vs an NRL club you'd see just how much difference crowd revenue makes.

I've never argued against securing bigger crowds for NRL clubs.Read my comments on infrastructure.Geez putting words into my comments ,is plain crazy.That's why I'v e mentioned scheduling is an issue, that's why I've wanted decent rectangular stadiums.I've attended both ANZ and the SFS with my daughter.The former is OK for big crowd but crap for smaller ones because of its confidence.The latter is outdated and not female friendly, little cover been drenched there at an SOO years ago.



A few things here. Firstly you're comparing sports of different scales. Fact is there is a limit to how much money you can make from crowds because realistically stadiums only reach a certain size. So whether you're a sport with a market of 1 billion people or a sport with a market of 1 million people you can still really only average an absolute maximum of around 100K (depends how big your stadium is).

One minute you're bitching about me comparing sports of a different scale,teh next as above toy are comparing sports of a different scale.What the!!.

TV revenue on the other hand isn't capped like that because you can have as many people that are interested watching. So basically the bigger the sport the bigger the gap is going to be between how much they make from crowds and TV.

TV revenue is hellishly based on TV ratings.and also national audience which I don;t deny.On your analogy the A league which is national should get as much as the NRL.Being facetious of course.

Basically percentage wise smaller comps have more to gain from crowd revenue.

All comps benefit from crowd revenue.But even if teams in Sydney increased numbers, they'd still need NRL grants.I'm one more time til I'm sick of saying it.A am for crowd increases.

Let's do some quick googling and numbers. The NFL averages around 15 million TV viewers per game and around 70K spectators per game.

Let's be generous and say the average NRL game averages 500K on TV. That's 1/30th of the NFL. Our crowds on the other hand are between 1/5th or 1/4 of their crowds. There is only so much you can make up for this by increasing ticket prices.

The NRL has more to gain from big crowds than the NFL simply because of the difference in scale.



Why does it have to be one or the other? Our direct competitor seems to be able to rate just as well as us without having to sacrifice crowds. If anything I'd argue that bigger crowds would only lead to bigger ratings due to it improving the product on TV.

Seriously mate .You've taken out pieces of what I;v stated and ignore a swag of other comments.

I AM FOR AN INCREASE IN CROWDS IN THE NRL.THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE CURRENT MAJORITY OF NRL REVENUE COMES FROM TV,ELSE THE GRANTS WOULD NOT BE PAID AT THE CURRENT LEVEL.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,402
Despite all the wailing, we are probably going to end up with the 5th or 6th highest attendance for a finals series ever.

As the saying goes in rugby league,one must concentrate perpetually on the negatives, ignore the positives that happen.
Legit criticism is obviously essential,but criticism for the sake of doing so or to make "crisis "issues that sell,drags the code down further.
 

Mr Angry

Not a Referee
Messages
51,764
If your sport is making the majority of revenue off gate takings, your sport is in trouble.

I used Dallas, as they pack thier huge stadium every game, but is just a small part.

The money is in the TV contracts. EPL, NFL any pro sport.

VFL is exactly the same.
 

carcharias

Immortal
Messages
43,120
I’d say Melbourne will be the only thing that really won’t help the crowd average this weekend.

The Sydney game will be huge.

Not sure why they are wasting time holding storm v Sharks down there.
Same time as an AFL game?
No storm fans will show up.
They’ll be wearing their massive top hats and shaking their huge over sized Pom Poms instead.
Lucky sharks fans are renowned travellers.
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,965
I bought tickets to Storm game $30 each....a bloke was offered 4k by a radio station to give up his position in the line (he was first) to buy tickets to Collingwood v Richmond....he refused.

The difference between AFL and rugby league, for every passionate league fan there are 20-30 in the AFL....that is basically the difference between the supporters.
 

greenBV4

Bench
Messages
2,508
The just saw on Facebook that Richmond and Collingwood has sold out before even being available to the general public

Hopefully a few people who were planning on trying to get a ticket will go to AAMI now instead
 

PARRA_FAN

Coach
Messages
16,988
I know a few AFL fans I know personally are going to the Storm game. 1. Because the AFL is sold out 2. They cant stand both AFL teams and prefer the Storm game.

But thats only a few, maybe there's other Victorians that would feel the same.
 

greenBV4

Bench
Messages
2,508
I know a few AFL fans I know personally are going to the Storm game. 1. Because the AFL is sold out 2. They cant stand both AFL teams and prefer the Storm game.

But thats only a few, maybe there's other Victorians that would feel the same.
Ive found AFL fans are always curious about the Storm, whenever Im out on the train or a pub/bar in purple before a game I get asked by them how they are going, who they are playing, whether or not they will win, what the game/atmosphere is like etc.

I've never met an AFL fan who "hated" the Storm or the NRL
 

eddiesmith

Juniors
Messages
2,392
I bought tickets to Storm game $30 each....a bloke was offered 4k by a radio station to give up his position in the line (he was first) to buy tickets to Collingwood v Richmond....he refused.

The difference between AFL and rugby league, for every passionate league fan there are 20-30 in the AFL....that is basically the difference between the supporters.

What an idiot, take the money then get on your phone to buy the tickets!!! Must have been a Richmond fan
 

greenBV4

Bench
Messages
2,508
seems to be plenty at bigpoofy and i doubt they're the only ones

AFL journos do too

Doesn't surprise me that people on an online forum would, plenty on here hate the AFL
I was talking about people Ive talked to in real life, and that I was surprised how many people down here at least have a small interest/curiosity in league
 

moffla

Bench
Messages
3,215
Ive found AFL fans are always curious about the Storm, whenever Im out on the train or a pub/bar in purple before a game I get asked by them how they are going, who they are playing, whether or not they will win, what the game/atmosphere is like etc.

I've never met an AFL fan who "hated" the Storm or the NRL
That's it. We are everyone's "back up" team. AFL will always rule down here, but there's always interest so long as it doesn't clash with their side.
 

footy75

Bench
Messages
2,991
seems to be plenty at bigpoofy and i doubt they're the only ones

AFL journos do too

crap... the NRL section on 'bigpoofy' has never had one single AFL fan come on there and bag the Storm or NRL ever... the constant hate only comes from some angry RL fans towards AFL.

as for AFL journos no idea never read about it.
 

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