Trade Ivan to Penrith for 2019

[Western Stand]

I'd put money on round one being at Leichhardt on a Sunday afternoon between us two. Greenberg loves this stuff.

 

[Hoofhearted]

It's all in the timing. Two clubs at different points in their development. I don't think too many of you would argue that Penrith is closer to a premiership than the Tigers at the moment.

Most of the success from 2013 to this year in which Penrith has had at least one team in a grand final comes back to what Ivan put in place in 2012. Most of these guys are in the system and playing first grade because Ivan and Gould put them on the path.

Yes, coaching Nathan is an attraction but so is the vast junior talent, the academy, major corporate backing and support from the leagues club. Are there too many people in the world that wouldn't want to earn more money in a 'perceived' stronger environment?

I know bugger all about the Tigers but my perception is, they need to lay down their roots in Campbelltown and own the area. Of course games can still be played at Leichhardt but it would annoy the hell out of me of I had to chase my team all around town.

Strong leadership by the Tigers management would make these delicate decisions and then you would start to bare the fruits of your labour. Do south west Sydney people really associate themselves with the Tigers? Obviously you lot on here do but the fastest growing area in the country needs to feel like they have something to own.

This is where your real leaders will come from and the next Nathan Cleary may very well be a Wests Tiger junior that wants to stay because it is 'his' club.

As a life long Tigers Supporter (Balmain then Wests) I actually agree with this, we need to set up permanently in the South West. I havent lived in NSW for over 20 years but we travelled over last Christmas, whilst there we drove from Sydney to Canberra and I couldnt believe how far it is to Campelltown, would I be right in saying its as far from the city as Penrith.
I love Leichardt, some of my greatest football memories exist there, but even I can acknowledge that time has gone past it. The area is no longer the working class footy following area it used to be, its impossible to get in and out of and the facilities are just outdated. Our Management needs to bite the bullet and make a long term plan to try and own the South West and just play the odd game at Leichardt the same as the Bulldogs do at Belmore.

 

[Western Stand]

This is correct. It is very obvious Ivan has signed with Penrith from 2021 in attempt to force Tigers to let him go immediately. That would be considered inciting a breach of contract and could be grounds for Wests Tigers to sue Penrith or Ivan. At the very least Tigers would have reason to fire him without paying him out.

He'd be happy for the Tigers to sack him. I don't think he wants a payout, he just wants out.

Clubs suing clubs is not the way to go. The whole sport's integrity would be brought into question. Is inciting someone to break a contract worse then a club breaking a contract? Name a club that isn't guilty of that in some way, shape or form.

 

[Tiger05]

Every club bends their moral compass to suit themselves. Your own club sacked a few coaches and players mid contract in the past 10 years. It is a business that is as close to every person for themselves as you can get.

I don't like this about the game now.

I don't see any winners out of this specific situation however if anything I think the Tigers may have gotten lucky. I don't think Ivan or Nathan deserve to be considered special talents and having them both at the same club and potentially overpaid is a risk.

 

[Tiger05]

As a life long Tigers Supporter (Balmain then Wests) I actually agree with this, we need to set up permanently in the South West. I havent lived in NSW for over 20 years but we travelled over last Christmas, whilst there we drove from Sydney to Canberra and I couldnt believe how far it is to Campelltown, would I be right in saying its as far from the city as Penrith.
I love Leichardt, some of my greatest football memories exist there, but even I can acknowledge that time has gone past it. The area is no longer the working class footy following area it used to be, its impossible to get in and out of and the facilities are just outdated. Our Management needs to bite the bullet and make a long term plan to try and own the South West and just play the odd game at Leichardt the same as the Bulldogs do at Belmore.

I'm not sure how true this is. The Tigers need to position themselves well geographically but I'm not not convinced that Campbelltown is the future.

In think if we started winning games we would have a tonne of supporters coming out of the woodwork. They mightn't be fans that support the club during rougher times but the Rorters probably have the lowest supporter base in the game.

 

[Western Stand]

As a life long Tigers Supporter (Balmain then Wests) I actually agree with this, we need to set up permanently in the South West. I havent lived in NSW for over 20 years but we travelled over last Christmas, whilst there we drove from Sydney to Canberra and I couldnt believe how far it is to Campelltown, would I be right in saying its as far from the city as Penrith.
I love Leichardt, some of my greatest football memories exist there, but even I can acknowledge that time has gone past it. The area is no longer the working class footy following area it used to be, its impossible to get in and out of and the facilities are just outdated. Our Management needs to bite the bullet and make a long term plan to try and own the South West and just play the odd game at Leichardt the same as the Bulldogs do at Belmore.

Penrith is a bit further.

I'll get off your website in a minute but people and especially management have to think about 20 years from now, 100 years from now. Yes, it is great to hold onto our cherished childhood memories of playing at our home ground. However, the demographic has changed and the future for the Wests Tigers is as plain as the nose on your face. You need to live and breath the south west of Sydney.

Making you team hop from one home ground to the next is not beneficial or fair on anyone. You need a base, somewhere where people feel like they can relate to you. The Wests Tigers are not the Balmain Tigers or Western Suburbs Magpies. They are a mixture of both and whilst you continue to pussy foot around with where you belong, other sports and other clubs are taking over the interest of your future - young supporters.

 

[Tiger05]

Two clubs at different points in their development. I don't think too many of you would argue that Penrith is closer to a premiership than the Tigers at the moment.

Who knows what will happen. A couple of astute signings or a couple of poor signings and or injuries can turn things around pretty quickly.

Penrith are definitely a better team now and they have some great young players there but things can change pretty quickly.

This is where your real leaders will come from and the next Nathan Cleary may very well be a Wests Tiger junior that wants to stay because it is 'his' club.

We had Tedesco and to a lesser extent Woods. You need guys that actually care about the club and are fighters. We can produce top quality juniors. We just need to produce top quality juniors that will choose to stay.

 

[TIGER14]

He'd be happy for the Tigers to sack him. I don't think he wants a payout, he just wants out.

Clubs suing clubs is not the way to go. The whole sport's integrity would be brought into question. Is inciting someone to break a contract worse then a club breaking a contract? Name a club that isn't guilty of that in some way, shape or form.

Oh, I'm not saying anybody SHOULD be sueing. Just that the potential for that to happen means it is ridiculous to claim Wests Tigers would be paying out Ivan's contract if he left early.

 

[Western Stand]

I'm not sure how true this is. The Tigers need to position themselves well geographically but I'm not not convinced that Campbelltown is the future.

In think if we started winning games we would have a tonne of supporters coming out of the woodwork. They mightn't be fans that support the club during rougher times but the Rorters probably have the lowest supporter base in the game.

Build a fan base for the future. You, like me will never change where our heart lays but you want and need the kids that have just turned five or the ones that aren't even born yet.

I grew up in Penrith, they were ordinary for the majority of my childhood but they were my team. I loved them and I would go to Penrith Park every game and hope for a win. Now, I live in the Sutherland Shire but they are still my team, I am still a season ticket holder and I still travel to away games. My kids, despite never living in Penrith are Panthers through and through. Why? Because my passion has rubbed off on them.

If the Tigers laid their roots at Campbelltown, the five your old boy of today will be the man with the kids in 20 years time and he will be a Tiger for life. Investing financially and emotionally.

It's a no brainer to me.

 

[The Charlatan]

Oh, I'm not saying anybody SHOULD be sueing. Just that the potential for that to happen means it is ridiculous to claim Wests Tigers would be paying out Ivan's contract if he left early.

They won't. Ivan will be chomping at the bit to get to Penrith and if he hasn't agreed to alternative arrangements with Penrith should he leave early he is a fool. Tigers just need to say that a release with a payout is simply not going to happen.

 

[Western Stand]

Who knows what will happen. A couple of astute signings or a couple of poor signings and or injuries can turn things around pretty quickly.

Penrith are definitely a better team now and they have some great young players there but things can change pretty quickly.



We had Tedesco and to a lesser extent Woods. You need guys that actually care about the club and are fighters. We can produce top quality juniors. We just need to produce top quality juniors that will choose to stay.

Any team can have a bad year. Look at the Cowboys this year.

What I am saying is, Penrith has built an infrastructure that is expected to bring sustainable success. It's not just about the 80 minutes on the park every weekend.

Waiting for a top notch junior to come along can be hit or miss. Does your club have a halfback academy? We did and Cleary, Luai, O'Sullivan came through it. These three guys will be superstars for the next 10 years.

What are the participation numbers like? Are they growing or decreasing? When was the last time you consistently challenged for a premiership in any grade?

I am not saying any of this to put the Tigers down. You have an area as vast if not bigger than our catchment and you need to make it work for you. This is more than getting a first grade coach in and saying - who is on the bus.

There is years of planning and hard decisions needed and I hope that the Tigers do it.

 

[insert.pause]

Penrith will be a disaster waiting to happen with the club completely beholden to Ivan. Gus isn't going to be able to just declare hes "tired" and sack him, or the clubs marquee half gets the shits and walks. If Nathan doesn't live up to the hype, his father isn't going to drop him, let alone release him. Then you throw in an egomaniac & control freak like Gould and it's not going to end well. The whole father coaching son fairytale crap will wear off real quickly imo.

 

[Das Hassler]

If Tigers get Bennett, they won’t really care if the betraying sob coaches Australia.

As for breaches, it was the fascists speaking behind the tigers back trying to incite Judas to join them. That is inciting a breach of contract and possibly illegal in itself.

Hiel gus you fat treacherous slob.

Get your grubby paws off the tigers tail.

Around 85 years ago in a motherland far far away there was an exhaulted leader wirh an 85% approval rating and lovestruck subjects shouting in unison..." look what he has done for us!....we were a shambles...now we are strong...we have industry....our leader has rebuilt our infrastructure and we will be great for 1000 years on the backs of our golden youth ...our enemies say our leader is erratic..probably mad but we know his genius....he has told of the plots against us..he has cast out the weak and handicapped and now that we will soon be genetically pure we will be supermen. ...long live our father...we are his children and we are mighty!..what could go wrong!?
Heil Adolphil !

 

[TheFrog]

Penrith will be a disaster waiting to happen with the club completely beholden to Ivan. Gus isn't going to be able to just declare hes "tired" and sack him, or the clubs marquee half gets the shits and walks. If Nathan doesn't live up to the hype, his father isn't going to drop him, let alone release him. Then you throw in an egomaniac & control freak like Gould and it's not going to end well. The whole father coaching son fairytale crap will wear off real quickly imo.

My feeling is that Ivan is only a short term coach at Panthers. They mainly want him to take over Gus's role in a year or two. Gus is only just 60 but isn't in the best of health and seriously needs to reduce his workload (and his girth) if he wants to reach 70. He's already said that if it comes down to it, he will leave Panthers and stay on Nine.

 

[Pilot house]

It’s a big gamble by the panthers to make a single player the cornerstone of your club. The pressure on the kid is unbelievable. He will be under immense scrutiny to perform. Other players may sense favouritism or whatever.

The Moylan experiment backfired badly and showed they couldnt manage properly.

If the tigers had bad admin, they wouldn’t have dumped a declining Aaron woods or signed a genuine superstar in mbye.

They wouldn’t have had a year of promise like this year.

Tiger club memberships are booming, sponsorship is way up. The fundamentals are there.

Now the tigers have a lot of extra public sympathy and support all around the nrl.

Coaches like bennett, a lot of the players, say he is like a second dad anyway. He cares not for blood ties. Thats a nice feeling I think.

The players risked their standing at bbq gate. That’s a kind of family feel to things. Bennett played it down but you could sense he was delighted.

 

[Das Hassler]

And i think Bennett's Newcastle ( mis)adventure may just work to our advantage....i"d imagine he'd be looking forward to repairing his image from that by way of success with us.
A hungry hound hunts best

 

[Old Time Tiger]

Western Stand, I agree with many things you say but disagree as well.

Your Penrith has been around forever, prior to entering the NSWRL comp in 1967 the team existed. Much of Penrith was pretty rural at that time but the club existed and it gaave the people of the 'district' a team to follow. Fortunately, they had people like Merv Cartright who was actually a St Marys man and he didn't work on bringing St Marys into the comp who worked on the 'district' team, clubs like St Marys were and still are feeder teams. Do you remember the old leagues club Western Stand? Compare that to the club now, again you had a guy like Roger Cowan who had a vision in bringing something huge to the 'district'.
Unfortunately, you now have Gus.

The merging of 2 teams for survival purposes has not really helped any of the clubs that did merge, e.g. Norths & Illawarra (although St George) still train and play in the Gong.

Balmain had a strong local based team and name centred around Leichhardt, Lilyfield & Balmain and to the north side of the Parramatta River to Ryde Eastwood (their 2nd tier team for a number of years).

Western Suburbs had a strong local based team and name. Centred around Ashfield & Prattan Park. They then moved west to Lidcombe Oval and then south west to Orana Park. If the Magpies had skipped Lidcombe Lidcombe and moved to Campbelltown much earlier, I think they would have survived alone, they had that whole area to develop and call their own.

You mentioned demographics, this is where I believe their problem starts, I have an old mate in real estate based at Camden, he has told me many a time that you see more South Sydney jerseys out there but not as many as Manchester City, Manchester United, Chelsea & Liverpool. What they have in all of the new suburbs out there is young people moving from the eastern suburbs, inner west, Canterbury district and the Shire because land and house packages are cheaper. What these people are are supporters of Cronulla, St George, Souths, Canterbury and the Tigers.

Then there are the new non RL people moving there, whats a west tiger to them, they only know what a bengal tiger is, but if a skinny kid from the western suburbs born to Fijian parents can make it as an AFL great in Perth, well there is hope.

Forget the EPL teams, the only way that Wests Tigers can win the area is by spending money on the kids and that is to replicate what the AFL does, win the kids over, promote the name and game winter and summer. Take control push the name through the schools, Oz-tag in summer getting 5 kids to sign up and they may each bring a mate. Free entry to all home games for these kids and their dads who support Cronulla, St George, Souths and so you have dads happy to take their kids to watch their (parents) team play their kids team the West Tigers.

But then the cycle begins, Campbelltown or Leichhardt, what games where and when, can Campbelltown be developed, will the NSW Gov put some dollars in, where's the vision?

 

[Vic Mackey]

I'm an old Balmain fan and have long said our split should be:

6 games at Campbelltown
3 games at Leichhardt
3 games at ANZ or now Western Sydney Stadium

I'm still a big believer that we need to make events out of games against certain other Sydney clubs I.e Souths, Dogs, Eels. Those games should be looking to attract 30k+ every game.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

My feeling is that Ivan is only a short term coach at Panthers. They mainly want him to take over Gus's role in a year or two. Gus is only just 60 but isn't in the best of health and seriously needs to reduce his workload (and his girth) if he wants to reach 70. He's already said that if it comes down to it, he will leave Panthers and stay on Nine.

I totally agree. Ciraldo will become coach then. Called a succession plan.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

I'm an old Balmain fan and have long said our split should be:

6 games at Campbelltown
3 games at Leichhardt
3 games at ANZ or now Western Sydney Stadium

I'm still a big believer that we need to make events out of games against certain other Sydney clubs I.e Souths, Dogs, Eels. Those games should be looking to attract 30k+ every game.

I'm being serious here:

Until W/T have one home ground they will struggle especially with facilities and resources. 3 or 4 home grounds is just plain crazy.

Looking as an outsider Campbelltown should be the place.