2019 Discussion

[franklin2323]

I'm saying they aren't sentimental like our fans.

Huh? I am saying Fergy goes. They have 2 proven rep wingers come in and the kids if they want to go that way

 

[OldPanther]

Huh? I am saying Fergy goes. They have 2 proven rep wingers come in and the kids if they want to go that way

We had the biggest showing for state of origin reps in the NSW team with a few guys outaide of that being top 5 in their position. Our cap is a victim of our strength on an individual level.

 

[mxlegend99]

Tmm, Bryce and Moylan all had some kind of personal issues behind their releases, it’s not the same as Merrin or Chn being moved on. Peachey chose to leave, he was off contract.

Carty had personal issues. Moylan didnt get along with the coach. Management backed a coach they would sack less than 12 months later and nothing was ever revealed about TMM but it seemed he didnt get along with hook either.

Tyrone Peachey was released early from his contract with us. He was given permission to look around.

You guys just keep saying we f**ked up, tell us what the squad should look like, cause it’s a fact that we cannot keep them all, so if we didn’t release all the players you just mentioned mx who should have not re-signed? Waqa? Kikau? Then we could’ve held onto Hiku and Merrin and we’d be much better off yeah? Lol.

We should never have signed Hiku in the first place. I said that from day one. The only crucial signings were Kikau, Blake and Cleary. If we lost anyone of Leota, JFH, Mansour etc. instead it's really no more damaging to our roster than losing the likes of CHN, Peachey and Merrin.

Any comment that uses Hiku and Merrin being released as an example of bad cap management is pretty silly imo.

How? They were on big money which both if they werent worth it, their initial signings were obviously bad management. As is losing them purely to upgrade players who are all being paid on potential..

You can't keep losing established big names on big money only to use their money to pay guys for their potential.

Of we had the 2019 top 30 last year eith sll players in the same form as they were in 2018 odds are not playing finals footy. Our roster got weaker. The only way we are better off is if we dont get goo many injuries and most of our guys improve.

But historically it never happens that way. Some will improve. Others will turn to shit and injuries will hit us hard.

Honestly if any other club lost that many players just to re-sign guys they would cop shit on here. We had a few that

 

[forby]

According to this we have more TPA's (which is an offical source)

https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/12/13...ents-public-and-strengthens-contract-process/

So you don't think Brett Morris and Ryan Hall are good replacements for Ferguson if a rookie doesn't come along? Same with Josh at Sharks they have the NSW u'20 centres but no guarantee they are good just yet.

I listed about 5 or 6 around the time Merrin was being shopped around that I would of liked to bring in for a season or 2

Guys Like Eastwood, Tagatese, Jason Clark. Wouldn't be top 17 even but if we needed them had big game experience and would be no more expensive then guys at the backend of the roster

The trouble with TPA's is as has been stated publicly is that there is nothing to stop someone like Nick P betting a player $10k over a golf shot, or similar. This does not have to be declared anywhere, and can be explained if bank records are checked as there would be witnesses.

 

[umina panther]

The trouble with TPA's is as has been stated publicly is that there is nothing to stop someone like Nick P betting a player $10k over a golf shot, or similar. This does not have to be declared anywhere, and can be explained if bank records are checked as there would be witnesses.

People might call bullshit or whatever and I won't elaborate any further but ive been told by players that Uncle Nick and Gus pay under the table cash in one way or another. It surely happens at every club

 

[Kilkenny]

You can't keep losing established big names on big money only to use their money to pay guys for their potential.

Of we had the 2019 top 30 last year eith sll players in the same form as they were in 2018 odds are not playing finals footy. Our roster got weaker. The only way we are better off is if we dont get goo many injuries and most of our guys improve.

But historically it never happens that way. Some will improve. Others will turn to shit and injuries will hit us hard.

Honestly if any other club lost that many players just to re-sign guys they would cop shit on here. We had a few that

Mansour, Blake, Laui, Cleary, JFH,Kikau, RCG, Hethrington and some lesser lights with potential as you put it all resigned and your complaining about the collateral damage of losing Merrin & CHN. Would have been great to keep Peachy but it would have meant one of the above could not be resigned. Your inability to understand even the basics around our roster management and strategic planning never ceases to amaze.

 

[mxlegend99]

Mansour, Blake, Laui, Cleary, JFH,Kikau, RCG, Hethrington and some lesser lights with potential as you put it all resigned and your complaining about the collateral damage of losing Merrin & CHN. Would have been great to keep Peachy but it would have meant one of the above could not be resigned. Your inability to understand even the basics around our roster management and strategic planning never ceases to amaze.

The inability of people to stop being biased when its our club never ceases to amaze me.

Just keep slinging shit at posters anytime someone doesnt blindly think every decision is great or suggests it could be better. You dont actually defend your opinion. You just blindly think what we're doing can't be done better

But yeah... having a roster in a permanent state of development where we consistently have to shed experienced players to upgrade the f**k out of promising players is awesome roster management.

We are no further along in development then we were in 2016. That was a great season to build off and we haven't done so.

We sack Ivan. Hire Hook. Extend Hook. Sack him before his new contract starts only to go back to Ivan. Great management.

We sign guys to long contracts.we release guys early into said contracts. Every season players are told they can look around and we NEED them to just to re-sign players. But yeah needing to release big name players on big money early every season to upgrade and extend guys is f**king terrific management.

Its also going to be terrific management when we shop guys like JFH, Leota etc. Around because they arent performing to the level we paid them to. Hetherington and Ellis etc. Will get the huge upgrades and this vicious cycle of waiting for our big money players to reach their potential continues.

Its not always a bad thing to do it. But the frequency at which we're doing it has us going nowhere.

 

[Abacus]

Merrin and ESPECIALLY Hiku being RECRUITED is a perfect example of BAD cap management.

Why is it bad cap management?

Recruitment of a couple of guys that have played at the elite level and in finals. They were recruited at a time where we didn't have much depth or experience in their positions.

Unless you simply mean because it didn't work out and they were subsequently released? Nobody gets every decision right (I'd expect a realist to know this). As @betcats said, moving them on when needed is good cap management.

 

[Abacus]

According to this we have more TPA's (which is an offical source)

https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/12/13...ents-public-and-strengthens-contract-process/

So you don't think Brett Morris and Ryan Hall are good replacements for Ferguson if a rookie doesn't come along? Same with Josh at Sharks they have the NSW u'20 centres but no guarantee they are good just yet.

I listed about 5 or 6 around the time Merrin was being shopped around that I would of liked to bring in for a season or 2

Guys Like Eastwood, Tagatese, Jason Clark. Wouldn't be top 17 even but if we needed them had big game experience and would be no more expensive then guys at the backend of the roster

Instead we kept JFH - an international with finals experience, and retained Luai for spine depth. And brought in Sele. So a mix of big game experience and depth.

Apart from the club not recruiting the guys you mention on a forum, what is your beef? You're comparing a recruitment club to a development club. Maybe you just think the grass is greener elsewhere?

 

[Abacus]

Canberra has been mentioned so we should get them to send a guy on the fringe of FG as a replacement. Works for both

Why would the Raiders do this? Only necessary on their part if they need to open a roster spot. NRL has them at only 25 spaces filled.

 

[Abacus]

The inability of people to stop being biased when its our club never ceases to amaze me.

Just keep slinging shit at posters anytime someone doesnt blindly think every decision is great or suggests it could be better. You dont actually defend your opinion. You just blindly think what we're doing can't be done better

But yeah... having a roster in a permanent state of development where we consistently have to shed experienced players to upgrade the f**k out of promising players is awesome roster management.

We are no further along in development then we were in 2016. That was a great season to build off and we haven't done so.

We sack Ivan. Hire Hook. Extend Hook. Sack him before his new contract starts only to go back to Ivan. Great management.

We sign guys to long contracts.we release guys early into said contracts. Every season players are told they can look around and we NEED them to just to re-sign players. But yeah needing to release big name players on big money early every season to upgrade and extend guys is f**king terrific management.

Its also going to be terrific management when we shop guys like JFH, Leota etc. Around because they arent performing to the level we paid them to. Hetherington and Ellis etc. Will get the huge upgrades and this vicious cycle of waiting for our big money players to reach their potential continues.

Its not always a bad thing to do it. But the frequency at which we're doing it has us going nowhere.

We're a long way progressed in our development from 2016. As I've said before, I think the club is going "all in" on a premiership in the next couple of years. Cleary, Maloney, Blake, Kikau, tough forwards in Yeo, Tamou and JFH. A lot of the turnover has been to get us to the point of having a squad capable of winning the comp.

2018 we were 2 wins off being minor premiers despite a shit 2nd half of the year with injuries and dysfunction. Resolve the dysfunction through Ivan and get a slightly better run with injuries (particularly timing) and who knows?

You probably need to take your rose-coloured glasses off 2016. We were middling for most of the year then won a few games from round 22 on the back of Moylan and Bryce getting hot.

I know you don't understand but as players progress from juniors to regular first graders, to sought after first graders with finals and rep experience, their market value goes up. The club, player and player's manager all understand this. So to keep these players, a club will need to pay them more than they were getting as a junior or regular first grader. Given the salary cap is generally finite, to pay a player more you need to either pay another player less, not re-sign them or release them. The tricky part is knowing which of these players will develop, how far they will develop and by when. The club's "insurance policy" is to sign already established players for longer and then make a decision on each players development on an ongoing basis and manage the cap appropriately, backing their negotiating skills to move players as needed.

We're not the only club to manage our roster and salary cap this way. I think you may just be more sensitive to it (or biased) as a fan.

 

[umina panther]

Also very easy to throw up "We were 2 wins from the minor premiership" When in reality we were no where near the top sides

 

[Abacus]

Also very easy to throw up "We were 2 wins from the minor premiership" When in reality we were no where near the top sides

Hence the reference to injuries and dysfunction.

Pretty easy to throw up references in isolation when you have nothing more substantial to contrubute.

 

[forby]

Also very easy to throw up "We were 2 wins from the minor premiership" When in reality we were no where near the top sides

But in reality we were just 2 wins away from the minor premiership and a field goal away from a preliminary final. So we really must have been closer to the ‘top sides’ than you think!

 

[betcats]

You can't keep losing established big names on big money only to use their money to pay guys for their potential.

Of we had the 2019 top 30 last year eith sll players in the same form as they were in 2018 odds are not playing finals footy. Our roster got weaker. The only way we are better off is if we dont get goo many injuries and most of our guys improve.

But historically it never happens that way. Some will improve. Others will turn to shit and injuries will hit us hard.

Honestly if any other club lost that many players just to re-sign guys they would cop shit on here. We had a few that

What big names did we lose? Peachey was the only one worth keeping and he didn’t even have a starting spot. Any club with good young talent does the same thing.

Newcastle have turned over more players then us, they now have a shot at the top 8 because of it. No one is putting shit on them.

Our main improvement will come from better coaching, I have no doubt about that. But yes player development will see us improve also.

 

[betcats]

The inability of people to stop being biased when its our club never ceases to amaze me.

Just keep slinging shit at posters anytime someone doesnt blindly think every decision is great or suggests it could be better. You dont actually defend your opinion. You just blindly think what we're doing can't be done better

But yeah... having a roster in a permanent state of development where we consistently have to shed experienced players to upgrade the f**k out of promising players is awesome roster management.

We are no further along in development then we were in 2016. That was a great season to build off and we haven't done so.

We sack Ivan. Hire Hook. Extend Hook. Sack him before his new contract starts only to go back to Ivan. Great management.

We sign guys to long contracts.we release guys early into said contracts. Every season players are told they can look around and we NEED them to just to re-sign players. But yeah needing to release big name players on big money early every season to upgrade and extend guys is f**king terrific management.

Its also going to be terrific management when we shop guys like JFH, Leota etc. Around because they arent performing to the level we paid them to. Hetherington and Ellis etc. Will get the huge upgrades and this vicious cycle of waiting for our big money players to reach their potential continues.

Its not always a bad thing to do it. But the frequency at which we're doing it has us going nowhere.

We need to let players go because our young guys have gone from nyc players to rep players, and we brought a rep half. Cleary, Kikau, Jfh, rcg...Waqa next year if fit. It’s not rocket science it’s stock standard. I don’t see how anyone can not understand it’s that simple. The money to keep these guys has to come from somewhere.

Like old panther just said we had the highest representation in nsw origin(up from one or none the last few seasons) add to that a number of international reps as well as that most of the squad being young and needing upgrades and you expect us to be able keep multiple players on rep money on the bench and aren’t sure why we need to release players, it’s dumb as f**k mate. Either explain how we upgrade all these players without releasing Merrin and chn or tell me who shouldn’t have been re-signed.

 

[mxlegend99]

But in reality we were just 2 wins away from the minor premiership and a field goal away from a preliminary final. So we really must have been closer to the ‘top sides’ than you think!

We've been 'close' to them for 3 years now. Yet haven't managed to make up any ground.

Since Gus arrived our best season was 2014. We peaked 5 years ago.

We've become a consistently solid team. But have made no progress on being a legitimate contender.

 

[betcats]

We've been 'close' to them for 3 years now. Yet haven't managed to make up any ground.

Since Gus arrived our best season was 2014. We peaked 5 years ago.

We've become a consistently solid team. But have made no progress on being a legitimate contender.

Because we had a shit coach. A coach who made Moylan captain and spent two seasons butting heads with him before the shit hit the fan at the end of 17. A coach who wouldn't use his assistants and was jealous of them and overly controlling of the players. A guy who wouldn't talk to his own boss by the end of it and refused all help offered. He picked Bryce at 6 for half a season ffs. That kind of coaching will keep you out of the contenders circle no matter what squad you have.

The squad we've had the last three years has been more then adequate to win a GF, we just made a huge error hiring Griffin and have had no luck with injuries(as usual)

 

[franklin2323]

Because we had a shit coach. A coach who made Moylan captain and spent two seasons butting heads with him before the shit hit the fan at the end of 17. A coach who wouldn't use his assistants and was jealous of them and overly controlling of the players. A guy who wouldn't talk to his own boss by the end of it and refused all help offered. He picked Bryce at 6 for half a season ffs. That kind of coaching will keep you out of the contenders circle no matter what squad you have.

The squad we've had the last three years has been more then adequate to win a GF, we just made a huge error hiring Griffin and have had no luck with injuries(as usual)

We aren't talking falling behind due to terrible game plans. Dumb errors and penalties wouldn't be on any coaches plan

 

[betcats]

We aren't talking falling behind due to terrible game plans. Dumb errors and penalties wouldn't be on any coaches plan

They aren't part of any players plan either. But they are signs of a poorly coached side, a lack of discipline and basic skills falls onto the coach certainly.