Rumoured and Confirmed signings - Part 4

[franklin2323]

People acting like our management is exceptionally bad compared to other clubs are delusional. Parra have been a basket case since before I was born. Look around the league there’s two clubs that are run well consistently. Not even the broncos can make that list. We should certainly demand better from our management but the doom and gloom is a bit much IMO.

We are far from a basket case but we are no closer to winning the comp than we were 5 years ago. That tells me we are doing something wrong

 

[franklin2323]

I'm not worried about losing players(well I do on a personal level when it's a favourite) but from a club perspective it doesn't mean much though it'd be nice to be signing better players.

For example Roosters: Cronk in Pearce out.

Us: Blake, DWZ out Naden and maybe Peachey in.

That is it. All seems to be one way and keep getting the same result

 

[Kilkenny]

[QUOTE="herbert henry1908, post: 13654138, member: 13444"

There’s also talk now that some of the contracts were backloaded. This is undoubtedly bad management.

As I mentioned to Killkeny, we are now league wide known as a club that shifts people regularly. And as you’ve mentioned, Penrith have a tougher time than most recruiting, Gus’ strategy will make recruitment harder for us.
[/QUOTE]

The backloaded contracts talk is just the usual Daily Telegraph crap to fill print space. Gould may be guilty of many things but signing players to backloaded deals would not be one of them.

Moving players on is just part and parcel of the salary cap and I don’t see us as being any different to any other club. In fact, we have been very fortunate in respect to many of the players who have been released given how underwhelming they have performed after leaving our club. Matt Moylan is probably one of the few who have left who would improve our current side if he was still here given his playmaking abilities as a fullback but we all know the reasons why he left and had to go

I think DWZ and Waqa Blake leaving is for the best, whether it was there choice or club driven doesn’t really matter at the end of the day. I wish them both well and hope they have more luck and good fortune than some of the other players who have moved on or been moved on in recent years.

 

[herbert henry1908]

So you are basking this off social media jokes? And the players are talking about it? Come on, you really stretch things out sometimes.

Perception is reality. It’s not just social media and it’s not just jokes, there’s been talk about it in the media too.



I think it’s a reasonable inference that the club being known as a place that forces out players when it becomes convenient will be bad for recruitment.

 

[herbert henry1908]

The backloaded contracts talk is just the usual Daily Telegraph crap to fill print space. Gould may be guilty of many things but signing players to backloaded deals would not be one of them.

Moving players on is just part and parcel of the salary cap and I don’t see us as being any different to any other club. In fact, we have been very fortunate in respect to many of the players who have been released given how underwhelming they have performed after leaving our club. Matt Moylan is probably one of the few who have left who would improve our current side if he was still here given his playmaking abilities as a fullback but we all know the reasons why he left and had to go

I think DWZ and Waqa Blake leaving is for the best, whether it was there choice or club driven doesn’t really matter at the end of the day. I wish them both well and hope they have more luck and good fortune than some of the other players who have moved on or been moved on in recent years.

It’s not just the daily telegraph, the editor of the western weekender told me the same. (I posted his tweet a few pages back)

We also have a poster on this forum that had a connection at the club that told him the same.

 

[Kilkenny]

From my perspective it is a better outcome for our club to allow players to leave who don’t want to be here or are not in the coaches future plans than to lose one or more players who we want to retain.

If DWZ & Waqa Blake leaving puts us in a stronger position to retain Spencer Leniu and the cream of the crop of the next generation then I am happy with that.

I think we’ve seen enough of Brian To’o already to suggests he is more than capable to compensate the loss of DWZ and probably has more upside given he is quicker.

The long term replacement for Blake may not be so obvious but there are probably no short of potential candidates from within even if we don’t recruit from outside the club.

 

[10Grand]

I was very dissatisfied with the performance of these players till the winning streak DWZ MANSOUR BLAKE RCG EDWARDS MALONEY WHARE YEO FUIMONO..now two of these have been moved on and the rest are playing with alot more energy..Guys like Liam Too Kenny and Naden have made a positive contribution in the effort departnent and the bigger names have followed suit.This to me suggest that most of our players were in a comfort zone like in any work place and the Coaching staff didnt identify it sooner till we became a laughing stock of the NRL.I give some credit to Ivan for putting his foot down and hopefully waking up the Giant.Now all of a sudden Iam excited about some of our young talent coming through like Matherson Mcgrady Blore Burns etc so the moral of the story is no player is bigger then the Club.Perform or you will be replaced and in this equation hopefully we win the Holy Grail..Go The Mighty Panthers!!

 

[herbert henry1908]

From my perspective it is a better outcome for our club to allow players to leave who don’t want to be here or are not in the coaches future plans than to lose one or more players who we want to retain.

If DWZ & Waqa Blake leaving puts us in a stronger position to retain Spencer Leniu and the cream of the crop of the next generation then I am happy with that.

I think we’ve seen enough of Brian To’o already to suggests he is more than capable to compensate the loss of DWZ and probably has more upside given he is quicker.

The long term replacement for Blake may not be so obvious but there are probably no short of potential candidates from within even if we don’t recruit from outside the club.

Let’s be honest here, it’s always the hope of the next crop. It’s our white whale.

 

[Kilkenny]

I don't care what James Hooper or others say. I personally can't see how this team is so close to the cap that moves like this are needed.

Have you ever done some basic maths on our squad?

Very rough and conservative estimates let’s do some sums?

Cleary 800K, Maloney 800K, Tamou 700K, RCG 700K, Kikau 600K, Fisher Harris 500K, Yeo 500K, DWZ, Blake Mansour all 400K. There’s approximately 5.8 million spent on arguably our 10 highest earning players.

That only leaves 3.8 million for the remaining 20 players. Average of say 190K for the remaining 20 and there’s our 9.6 million well and truly spent, gone. Quite of a few of the remaining 20 are likely on deals closer to 300K than the 190K average.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I remember when these guys were all part of the next crop, too. And this is just the ones that made it to first grade.

If you go back years on this board you’ll see posts about these blokes. One thing I’ve learnt for sure, all that hype doesn’t mean anything until you see them in first grade. Most turn out to be average at best.

Te Marie Martin
Latu
Robert Jennings
Bryce Cartwright
Austin
Siejka
Coote
Iosefa
Graham
Samutt
Paulo
Romelo

 

[Kilkenny]

Let’s be honest here, it’s always the hope of the next crop. It’s our white whale.

Over the course of the last five seasons or so we’ve enjoyed reasonable success without ever quite having the quality to win a premiership.

In recent weeks we have seen improved performances on the back of some younger players being blooded and there are plenty more coming thru make no mistake about that.

 

[Flashstep]

Over the course of the last five seasons or so we’ve enjoyed reasonable success without ever quite having the quality to win a premiership.

In recent weeks we have seen improved performances on the back of some younger players being blooded and there are plenty more coming thru make no mistake about that.

You’ll never build a premiership contending team if you keep hoping that the next wave of juniors coming through your ranks are upgrades over players in their young 20s.

Giving up on players so easily is not a good plan in my opinion, not everyone can be a generational talent like Mitchell or Ponga and come into first grade and set the world on fire, reality is it takes years for the majority of nrl players to consistently play at a high level, and a lot of players peak after years of experience, this is a constant throughout sport in general.

What’s to say the next wave of talent isn’t good enough? Or what if they are but the club thinks the wave after that is expected to be better, do we just release the previous wave like what we’re doing now? It just seems like a pointless cycle we’re we will probably just end up losing the best of our players but it won’t matter because some 16 year old from St Mary’s is the next big thing.

 

[MugaB]

Not sure you can bring Jennings into the discussion, that's a little silly.

Seriously you can't keep them all
You guys are all delusional if you think Jennings, blake, and sivo are smart footballers, great for a game or two
Then get on the pokies, piss or sextapes, we need some stable players Tamou, Yeo, Whare, Nathan, Edwards all are good level headed players to build a foundation attitude wise, Moylan was a loose cannon, Cartwright even worse, and Segeyaro was at my pub every night punting with corey norman, money makes these kids go stupid, solid players and more importantly role models first, then buy or bring up junior talent, we had too many todd carney-esk guys not on the job. Although i love watching blake play, but my assessment of him is he needs to be fed good ball, from either kikau or maloney to get attacking, he needed to look for it and defend better, whare is all defence, i agree his attack lacks but premierships are built on defence
Ivan Cleary is a defensive coach, all last year we played loose and free in attack, we can attack from anywhere, it even got bennett scared, but our defence was piss poor, we get that right and our halves will get us over the line,
I reckon if we are buying, we need a wrecking ball prop JWH or Packer, someone willing to martin lang us on the front foot, then the likes of RCG, Tamou and Leota will follow, we lack that and we lack defence, mitch Kenny by far is the best player we've signed this year by far, his tackles in the middle have put the rest of the squad to shame.
Get onboard folks, all this negative blasts at the coach and admin is just repetative and unwarranted, if you don't like whats doin, follow another team,
I saw the roosters go through the media rubbish early last year, and they fixed their defence, they won the GF, they might have Cronk, Ceary and Teddy, but we got Maloney, Nath, JFH
We'll get better

 

[MugaB]

Mate, we’ve done this dance before. You’ve told me his thoughts on it.

I remain convinced more than ever it’s a bad strategy. Just because a certain roster management technique was deliberate, does not make it a good strategy.

There’s also talk now that some of the contracts were backloaded. This is undoubtedly bad management.

As I mentioned to Killkeny, we are now league wide known as a club that shifts people regularly. And as you’ve mentioned, Penrith have a tougher time than most recruiting, Gus’ strategy will make recruitment harder for us.


In fact I think it’s telling you use the roosters example. There’s a club that doesn’t have an issue attracting recruits, therefore the swapping out strategy is probably fine for them. But in my view it’s a roadblock for a club that already struggles to recruit. A man with a family for example would be very concerned about signing with us.

Roosters traded 9 players last year, im sure the cap is working on their end, enough to poach klye flanagan, after cronk retires, this is where we need to get to be to be competitive in 1st grade, we have the advantage of a plethora of juniors, where roosters dont

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

I remember when these guys were all part of the next crop, too. And this is just the ones that made it to first grade.

If you go back years on this board you’ll see posts about these blokes. One thing I’ve learnt for sure, all that hype doesn’t mean anything until you see them in first grade. Most turn out to be average at best.

Te Marie Martin
Latu
Robert Jennings
Bryce Cartwright
Austin
Siejka
Coote
Iosefa
Graham
Samutt
Paulo
Romelo

How many years are you wanting to go back here ? 1967 perhaps then Also Martin came from W/T he was never a Panthers developed player,

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

You’ll never build a premiership contending team if you keep hoping that the next wave of juniors coming through your ranks are upgrades over players in their young 20s.

Giving up on players so easily is not a good plan in my opinion, not everyone can be a generational talent like Mitchell or Ponga and come into first grade and set the world on fire, reality is it takes years for the majority of nrl players to consistently play at a high level, and a lot of players peak after years of experience, this is a constant throughout sport in general.

What’s to say the next wave of talent isn’t good enough? Or what if they are but the club thinks the wave after that is expected to be better, do we just release the previous wave like what we’re doing now? It just seems like a pointless cycle we’re we will probably just end up losing the best of our players but it won’t matter because some 16 year old from St Mary’s is the next big thing.

Why then are the Roosters loving referred to as 'the transit lounge' Your arguement is leaking badly here.

 

[OldPanther]

Why then are the Roosters loving referred to as 'the transit lounge' Your arguement is leaking badly here.

They always put top quality experience in the team. We value untested youth. That's the difference.

 

[Kilkenny]

We have even reason to be proud of our junior development programs who continue to produce NRL quality players year in year out. Not all stay with us, that is simply not possible. Again this season already we have seen To’o, Naden, Martin & Kenny step with the prospect of one or two more before seasons end. Some will enjoy long NRL careers others may not achieve any significant milestones but it is only a matter of time before we unearth a golden generation which will take us to our next premiership. It’s not far away. Maybe not next year but I actually feel coach Cleary has a great opportunity to win a premiership during his lengthy contract given the strength, depth and quality of the kids coming thru.

 

[betcats]

We have even reason to be proud of our junior development programs who continue to produce NRL quality players year in year out. Not all stay with us, that is simply not possible. Again this season already we have seen To’o, Naden, Martin & Kenny step with the prospect of one or two more before seasons end. Some will enjoy long NRL careers others may not achieve any significant milestones but it is only a matter of time before we unearth a golden generation which will take us to our next premiership. It’s not far away. Maybe not next year but I actually feel coach Cleary has a great opportunity to win a premiership during his lengthy contract given the strength, depth and quality of the kids coming thru.

Well said. I absolutely love seeing the kids come through. Not happy with every decision made by the club but overall I think we have come a long way since 2011. Managing an NRL club is incredibly difficult, that’s why most are basketcases that bleed money. I mean people want effective cap management with no one being released, releasing players IS cap management ffs.

People need to accept we do not go through more players than other clubs. It’s a MYTH. A myth that’s being used to heavily criticise the club. There’s always this feeling that we are so much worse off then other clubs, it’s really getting old.

 

[franklin2323]

Roosters traded 9 players last year, im sure the cap is working on their end, enough to poach klye flanagan, after cronk retires, this is where we need to get to be to be competitive in 1st grade, we have the advantage of a plethora of juniors, where roosters dont

They also replaced RTS with Tedesco. Some teams do stuff better