General Discussion Thread

[franklin2323]

You need to consider how many kicks he’s taking, who else is doing the kicking? Just looking at the number is isolation doesn’t say he’s got a bad kicking game.

In the games Luai has started he’s been playing with Maloney, clearly in that situation Maloney was taking the lead role as in game kicker. Rightly so.

Luai is averaging 38 mins per game, which comes to approx 6 full games for the season. In that time he has 5 try assists & 6 LBA’s. That’s on pace over a full season for 20+ try assists, and 20+ LBA’s. Those are significant numbers.

The games has started the stats weren't anything special. Which is why this might be his best role. As starting half he will make more tackles and have less space to make decisions as he has had most of the year as 3rd play maker.

Ideally he would of had more games in NSW Cup getting used to running a team and controlling a game. Anyway it will be his spot to lose and I hope he nails it but hope we aren't only focused on him should we struggle

 

[BxTom]

True its not his roster hes the incoming coach so he might escape criticism this yr but next yr it will be his roster and the pressure will be on.Paul kent obviously has an agenda against the clearys and after the bulldogs game rightfully so but he shouldn't make it personal.Rugby leagues a funny game things can change drastically week to week id love to hammer cronulla this friday night and send them packing we owe them a few.

Crap, Cleary was specifically bought in to take the existing squad 'one step' further. Griffin was sacked as he was seen as not being able to do that with the squad. The changing of the squad is an admission that Cleary was/is not capable of taking the existing squad further. So why was a coach sacked and Cleary bought in other than the fact that he is Dave's mate. Nepotism at it's greatest.

 

[herbert henry1908]

The games has started the stats weren't anything special. Which is why this might be his best role. As starting half he will make more tackles and have less space to make decisions as he has had most of the year as 3rd play maker.

Ideally he would of had more games in NSW Cup getting used to running a team and controlling a game. Anyway it will be his spot to lose and I hope he nails it but hope we aren't only focused on him should we struggle

His two best games have been as a starter.

The game against the warriors last year, and the game against the Titans this year.

 

[OldPanther]

You need to consider how many kicks he’s taking, who else is doing the kicking? Just looking at the number is isolation doesn’t say he’s got a bad kicking game.

In the games Luai has started he’s been playing with Maloney, clearly in that situation Maloney was taking the lead role as in game kicker. Rightly so.

Most of Luai’s kicks have been grubbers, he’s rarely given the role as field position kicker. That’s likely a tactical choice.



Luai is averaging 38 mins per game, which comes to approx 6 full games for the season. In that time he has 5 try assists & 6 LBA’s. That’s on pace over a full season for 20+ try assists, and 20+ LBA’s. Those are significant numbers.

That's 0.8 try assists per game. That puts him in the top 10 at NRL level.

 

[Dave's mate]

His two best games have been as a starter.

The game against the warriors last year, and the game against the Titans this year.

It's not really fair to judge him on it alone but he's been totally ineffective off the bench this year. Added nothing really

 

[herbert henry1908]

It's not really fair to judge him on it alone but he's been totally ineffective off the bench this year. Added nothing really

I tend to agree, I think there’s too much pressure to come on and do something. He’s only started 6 or so games, he’s looked pretty good to me as far as young halves go.

 

[herbert henry1908]

That's 0.8 try assists per game. That puts him in the top 10 at NRL level.

He looks like a creator, there’s a long way to go obviously but the signs have been pretty good.

 

[franklin2323]

It's not really fair to judge him on it alone but he's been totally ineffective off the bench this year. Added nothing really

Which is the issue I have for consistently playing at that level across 24 games.

 

[Luke Bowden]

Michael “Flash” Gordon is retiring at the end of this year!

One of my all time favourite players! Never gave less 100%.

Good on you Flash! You’ve been an outstanding example of what an NRL player should strive to be.

 

[Westernised Panther]

Michael “Flash” Gordon is retiring at the end of this year!

One of my all time favourite players! Never gave less 100%.

Good on you Flash! You’ve been an outstanding example of what an NRL player should strive to be.

Thought provoking question here.

Which club do you guys think he had the most success?

 

[Fangs]

Luai seems to have fallen out of favour here with a few just because he plays unstructured footy (which is likely what we need), can't really understand it tbh. Looks dangerous every time he gets on the park for us & I haven't seen any major flaws in his defence.

Has to be given his shot imo.

I think Luai or a similar type player is key to Penrith's success over the next few years.

We simply can't play structured football as well as the Storm or the Roosters. Guys like him, Moylan, Peachey etc. are the way to go for our attack. We also need more forwards who are explosive and can offload in the middle.

Other options:

- Move Cleary to 9
- Employ someone who can coach attack

 

[franklin2323]

I think Luai or a similar type player is key to Penrith's success over the next few years.

We simply can't play structured football as well as the Storm or the Roosters. Guys like him, Moylan, Peachey etc. are the way to go for our attack. We also need more forwards who are explosive and can offload in the middle.

Other options:

- Move Cleary to 9
- Employ someone who can coach attack

None of those guys were consistent enough for the halves though.

Both those options are good too

 

[mxlegend99]

Unbelievable that Luai is being written off already. Being young and in the halves he will be a mixed bag to start his career. But he has shown more than enough to suggest he could be a good longterm NRL player.

Obviously some players die off as they settle into first grade..while others learn and improve. But until he gets a full pre-season in and some full games at 6 we really dont know for sure how he will develop.

IMO he and Cleary will both look better in 2020 after they find a way to combine well. Right now our best combination is Jimmy runs the team and his partner lets him. Because Jimmy when he's firing is one of the best in the competition and we can't have kids overruling him and holding him back.

Maybe things will get worse when he leaves. Personally I think it depends on how we use his money. We can survive just fine without him... as long as we strengthen what is a very weak roster for 2020.

We've released a lot of experienced players and cant fill all the gaps with the next guy we need to spend 100 games developing only to release.

 

[Dave's mate]

Unbelievable that Luai is being written off already. Being young and in the halves he will be a mixed bag to start his career. But he has shown more than enough to suggest he could be a good longterm NRL player.

Obviously some players die off as they settle into first grade..while others learn and improve. But until he gets a full pre-season in and some full games at 6 we really dont know for sure how he will develop.

IMO he and Cleary will both look better in 2020 after they find a way to combine well. Right now our best combination is Jimmy runs the team and his partner lets him. Because Jimmy when he's firing is one of the best in the competition and we can't have kids overruling him and holding him back.

Maybe things will get worse when he leaves. Personally I think it depends on how we use his money. We can survive just fine without him... as long as we strengthen what is a very weak roster for 2020.

We've released a lot of experienced players and cant fill all the gaps with the next guy we need to spend 100 games developing only to release.

Not written off but we learned nothing more in 2019 than we already knew about him

 

[OldPanther]

Not written off but we learned nothing more in 2019 than we already knew about him

Unfortunate truth. Shame he's on the bench and not playing 80 in reserves coming up a grade every few weeks for his development.

 

[Fangs]

I'm also of the belief that he'd make a good halfback. He talks a hell of a lot more than most players, directing others quite often. Its a skill that Nathan Cleary appears to lack and why I can't see him giving us the 'structure' that all teams talk about.

Luai is no Benji Marshall but if he can find the right balance he is a long-term half. We missed the boat not giving him more time there this year. Too late now.

 

[Whino]

Thought provoking question here.

Which club do you guys think he had the most success?

Lets have look

He played 108 games for us. Broke a few point scoring records and made his Origin debut as a Panther.
Scored 55 of his current 92 tries with us.
I still vividly recall the match against Souths where he broke the points scoring record with 3 tries.
He only made the finals once with us. 43% win ratio.

3 Years at the Sharks, he later fell out with Flanagan. 2 out 3 years he made the finals. 45% win ratio.

1 Year at Parra. No finals. 54% win ratio.

A very successful year at the Roosters. 72% win ratio.

and 2 seasons at the struggling Titans. Current win ratio 28%

On field success you would say he had better success after leaving us except at the Titans.
Looking at his career in my opinion I thought he played his best football for us. I thought 2010 was his career year. He had many good years after us because he always gives good service but 2010 his form was sublime.

 

[Panfa]

How on earth did sam burgess get off and Jimmy cop a week the hard bit is tony puletua was on a 3 man panel that suspended maloney is he serious.

 

[TL51]

Crap, Cleary was specifically bought in to take the existing squad 'one step' further. Griffin was sacked as he was seen as not being able to do that with the squad. The changing of the squad is an admission that Cleary was/is not capable of taking the existing squad further. So why was a coach sacked and Cleary bought in other than the fact that he is Dave's mate. Nepotism at it's greatest.

I think the comment last night about not being his roster was to highlight that there are multiple people in charge of making those decisions now and not just Gus on his own. It wasn’t to use the roster as an excuse for failure, but rather to highlight the new structure and support the board Ivan has been employed by. Perhaps a number of people on the board were worried about how the salary cap was being handled and wanted more control over that? Gus would have had a plan for the future, but he even admitted the salary cap for 2020 was tight. The way the year has played out, it was obvious we needed to offload players to get under the salary cap for next year. We don’t seem to be in the market for anyone next year even after offloading DWZ, Waqa and letting Jimmy go.

Ivan admitting it wasn’t Gus that wanted him back, also speaks to the board trying to take more control of the club. Whilst the board may have seen employing Ivan as a way of securing Nathan’s signature, Ivan’s history at the club, and his ability to work as a team for recruitment and retention, also would have influenced their decision to employ him.

 

[Pomoz]

I think the comment last night about not being his roster was to highlight that there are multiple people in charge of making those decisions now and not just Gus on his own. It wasn’t to use the roster as an excuse for failure, but rather to highlight the new structure and support the board Ivan has been employed by. Perhaps a number of people on the board were worried about how the salary cap was being handled and wanted more control over that? Gus would have had a plan for the future, but he even admitted the salary cap for 2020 was tight. The way the year has played out, it was obvious we needed to offload players to get under the salary cap for next year. We don’t seem to be in the market for anyone next year even after offloading DWZ, Waqa and letting Jimmy go.

Ivan admitting it wasn’t Gus that wanted him back, also speaks to the board trying to take more control of the club. Whilst the board may have seen employing Ivan as a way of securing Nathan’s signature, Ivan’s history at the club, and his ability to work as a team for recruitment and retention, also would have influenced their decision to employ him.

Good hypothesis that makes logical sense. However, if what you say is true, then it reflects poorly on the club that they would hire Cleary just to keep his son. No player is bigger than the club and if Nathan left because his Dad wasn't coach then so be it. Cleary simply wasn't the best coach available at the time he was hired, the club failed to run a proper recruitment process. Why? Only they can answer that but being Dave's mate seems to help.

The hiring of Cleary and taking control are not dependant on each other. They could have taken control and put in a retention committee all without selecting a 49% win rate coach.