Rumoured and Confirmed signings - Part 4

[PANTHERMIKE]

I don't think he has ever led the point scorers for a season, he does have a very good resume though. He has plenty left to prove no doubt but he is becoming very underrated round here.

 

[PANTHERMIKE]

 

[herbert henry1908]

I’m puzzled how people keep bringing up his point scoring, who has ever said he isn’t a gun goal kicker?!

That’s got nothing to do with halfback play.

Ditto his origin selection, where he didn’t have a single try or line break assist. His best play in 4.5 origins was a defensive cover tackle.

and everyone to a man acknowledges he’s a great defender for a halfback.


70 odd first grade games show he doesn’t create many tries for the players around him. The whole point of halfback play is being a playmaker. And he doesn’t make plays.

 

[betcats]

View attachment 33704

My bad

 

[betcats]

I’m puzzled how people keep bringing up his point scoring, who has ever said he isn’t a gun goal kicker?!

That’s got nothing to do with halfback play.

Ditto his origin selection, where he didn’t have a single try or line break assist. His best play in 4.5 origins was a defensive cover tackle.

and everyone to a man acknowledges he’s a great defender for a halfback.


70 odd first grade games show he doesn’t create many tries for the players around him. The whole point of halfback play is being a playmaker. And he doesn’t make plays.

You have just made halfback play all about creating tries so you can talk him down. Like we cant even compliment him on strength now?

Try assists are not the be all end all of halfback play.

 

[ACTPanthers]

IMO a lot of Nathans negatives could be coached out of him - We played a boring style with hook, and we've played a safe type of style with Ivan. With a new attacking coach, and hopefully some structures being developed in the off-season, we could see a whole new Nathan come kick off in 2020.

 

[mxlegend99]

I’m puzzled how people keep bringing up his point scoring, who has ever said he isn’t a gun goal kicker?!

That’s got nothing to do with halfback play.

Ditto his origin selection, where he didn’t have a single try or line break assist. His best play in 4.5 origins was a defensive cover tackle.

and everyone to a man acknowledges he’s a great defender for a halfback.


70 odd first grade games show he doesn’t create many tries for the players around him. The whole point of halfback play is being a playmaker. And he doesn’t make plays.

How many halves bag 4 tries to go with kicking 9/9 goals? None in the history of our club. Not many in the history of the game. Its not some small meaningless achievement.

Hes no Thurston. Who is? Look at Raiders halves. Raiders made a grand final... with their 5/8th getting the CC medal and he had zero try assists in that match... and only had 5 try assists in 26 games all year. Topped off with Aiden Sezer only had 5 try assists in 18 games.

Yet Raiders are looked at as a decent attacking team with two halves who did less than Nathan. Most of the season Nathan was taking a backseat to Jimmy because that was the selfless thing to do and in the best interests of the team.

He needs to lift in 2020 without doubt. For the first time in his career he starrs as the senior playmaker. Its finally his team and we can judge him more accurately in 12 months IMO.

 

[betcats]

We played a boring style with hook, and we've played a safe type of style with Ivan..

I think this is a massively underrated point when talking about Nathan.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

haha so does mine.[/QUOT

My bad

Thanks for that. Says a fair bit doesn't it. Loved Maloney, love Cleary. Together though they didn't blend well.
Nathan needs to step up in 2020 and steer the team round. Either Burton or Lui will ably support him.

Me personally i'd like to see Lui as a 14 a super sub, and Burton as 6.

 

[betcats]

How many halves bag 4 tries to go with kicking 9/9 goals? None in the history of our club. Not many in the history of the game. Its not some small meaningless achievement.

Hes no Thurston. Who is? Look at Raiders halves. Raiders made a grand final... with their 5/8th getting the CC medal and he had zero try assists in that match... and only had 5 try assists in 26 games all year. Topped off with Aiden Sezer only had 5 try assists in 18 games.

Yet Raiders are looked at as a decent attacking team with two halves who did less than Nathan. Most of the season Nathan was taking a backseat to Jimmy because that was the selfless thing to do and in the best interests of the team.

He needs to lift in 2020 without doubt. For the first time in his career he starrs as the senior playmaker. Its finally his team and we can judge him more accurately in 12 months IMO.

Some very good points here. Next season is pretty much make or break for this kid. Either he will show us he has another level or more he can go to or that we as a club overpaid massively, I personally think we saw plenty of improvement in him over the back half of they year and am quietly confident he can have a big year for us in 2020.

 

[PANTHERMIKE]

I’m puzzled how people keep bringing up his point scoring, who has ever said he isn’t a gun goal kicker?!

That’s got nothing to do with halfback play.

Ditto his origin selection, where he didn’t have a single try or line break assist. His best play in 4.5 origins was a defensive cover tackle.

and everyone to a man acknowledges he’s a great defender for a halfback.


70 odd first grade games show he doesn’t create many tries for the players around him. The whole point of halfback play is being a playmaker. And he doesn’t make plays.

I think it was clear to see that wasnt really what the expectation was from Nathans game. That is why we had a 2 time Premiership winning 5/8 in Maloney here at the club.

Cleary threw the shackles off that last game, and we saw a glimpse of what i think we will see next year.

But if not, then he has a lot of work to do if we are relying on Nath to be our player maker.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

Some very good points here. Next season is pretty much make or break for this kid. Either he will show us he has another level or more he can go to or that we as a club overpaid massively, I personally think we saw plenty of improvement in him over the back half of they year and am quietly confident he can have a big year for us in 2020.

I agree. He's done things at 20 and 21 that some great halfbacks only dreamt about.

Is he creative ? I have no idea. All I worry about is that the mighty Panthers win each and every game. How that happens I couldn't give a fig. I don't care whether it's pretty or not. I just want the win.

Some of the shit this kids cops from folks who claim to be Penrith fans and members never ceases to amaze me.

I have an idea let's think about celebrating what the kids does well. Or is that too simplistic ?

I do know one thing after following the game for 50 years. No player is a complete I mean complete package. All have strengths and weaknesses. It's how these weakness are covered in 2020 will depend on how we do as a team.

I'm of the opinion that Penrith's internal culture was shady to say the least in the last couple of year. Otherwise the need to flim themselves having sex and then sharing it with others would not have happened. Blokes even young men all know in their heart of hearts that this isn't appropriate. Somehow this self entitled culture was allowed to fester and thrive.

I hope to God this cancer has been cut out, and addressed in a mature and honorable manner. It was horrible on many levels. Something I don't want to see associated with the club I support.

 

[MrBlack]

He needs to lift in 2020 without doubt. For the first time in his career he starrs as the senior playmaker. Its finally his team and we can judge him more accurately in 12 months IMO.

100% correct.

 

[BxTom]

I think it was clear to see that wasnt really what the expectation was from Nathans game. That is why we had a 2 time Premiership winning 5/8 in Maloney here at the club.

Cleary threw the shackles off that last game, and we saw a glimpse of what i think we will see next year.

But if not, then he has a lot of work to do if we are relying on Nath to be our player maker.

Could be true, also need to consider that he must have been carrying an injury - required surgery on his toe. Might only be an ingrown toe nail, but it may have affected his game?

 

[betcats]

Could be true, also need to consider that he must have been carrying an injury - required surgery on his toe. Might only be an ingrown toe nail, but it may have affected his game?

Yeah obviously he would’ve had 6 tries against newcastle if he wasn’t carrying that.

 

[herbert henry1908]

You have just made halfback play all about creating tries so you can talk him down. Like we cant even compliment him on strength now?

Try assists are not the be all end all of halfback play.

It’s not *all* about try assists, but it’s the most important along with line break assists and possibly getting repeat sets.

I don’t think it’s a controversial statement to say halfbacks are playmakers first and foremost.

 

[herbert henry1908]

How many halves bag 4 tries to go with kicking 9/9 goals? None in the history of our club. Not many in the history of the game. Its not some small meaningless achievement.

Hes no Thurston. Who is? Look at Raiders halves. Raiders made a grand final... with their 5/8th getting the CC medal and he had zero try assists in that match... and only had 5 try assists in 26 games all year. Topped off with Aiden Sezer only had 5 try assists in 18 games.

Yet Raiders are looked at as a decent attacking team with two halves who did less than Nathan. Most of the season Nathan was taking a backseat to Jimmy because that was the selfless thing to do and in the best interests of the team.

He needs to lift in 2020 without doubt. For the first time in his career he starrs as the senior playmaker. Its finally his team and we can judge him more accurately in 12 months IMO.

Im not saying it’s meaningless, but it should be taken with a grain of salt because Newcastle basically gave up.

Obviously if he could repeat that on a semi regular basis he’d be a superstar, but that’s highly unlikely.


Re the raiders, I agree. I made the same point the other day. But the raiders have pieces we don’t. A superstar hooker, a superstar prop and genuine strike in the backline.

The big difference is Sezer isn’t the highest paid player on their team. That allows more money to be spent elsewhere.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I think it was clear to see that wasnt really what the expectation was from Nathans game. That is why we had a 2 time Premiership winning 5/8 in Maloney here at the club.

Cleary threw the shackles off that last game, and we saw a glimpse of what i think we will see next year.

But if not, then he has a lot of work to do if we are relying on Nath to be our player maker.

If it wasn’t the expectation why’d he handle the ball more than Maloney? And importantly why’d he handle the ball more in the last 20m than Maloney?

The biggest mistake we made was not making Maloney the on the ball half, he should’ve had 60%+ of the touches between the two halves.

When Maloney played without Cleary we had a very good record. (I’m not suggesting we’re better without Cleary, I’m saying the roles were wrong)

 

[Fangs]

I'm confident in 2020 all Panthers fans will start treating Nathan Cleary for what is he: a halfback/million dollar man. After all there will be no more excuses, we've moved heaven and earth to ensure he is our number one play maker.

 

[mxlegend99]

Im not saying it’s meaningless, but it should be taken with a grain of salt because Newcastle basically gave up.

Obviously if he could repeat that on a semi regular basis he’d be a superstar, but that’s highly unlikely.


Re the raiders, I agree. I made the same point the other day. But the raiders have pieces we don’t. A superstar hooker, a superstar prop and genuine strike in the backline.

The big difference is Sezer isn’t the highest paid player on their team. That allows more money to be spent elsewhere.

So what you're saying is the Raiders halves have a better hooker and backline to work with yet combined have as many try assists as Nathan. (Or rather they have 10 combined to his 9)

But you also seem to be suggesting by defending them that try assists arent the be all end all for the Raiders halves... and yet for Nathan its the only thing that matters?

Nathan scored more tries, had more try assists, had more linebreak assists and forced more line drop outs than the grand final halves pairing. Oh and had a better tackle rate aswell.

He did so playing off a worse hooker, behind an inferior forward pack with a worse backline at only 21 years of age while battling an injury in a team that has had non-stop drama all season...

As for their pay packet... Nathan hasnt actually started his new massive contract yet. So there's a good chance his 2019 pay was not much more if anything to the Raiders halves yet. He didnt crack any of the highest paid players lists in 2019 despite people carrying on like he was taking up all our cap. But to be honest I dont know for certain he wasnt on his $1m contract yet. We dont know how his extension worked. But theres a very good chance he wasn't and was only on his previously extended contract still... or had it only upgraded slightly for 2019. No certainty one way or the other. The media who love to punish us for dumb contracts didnt have him on rich lists though. Bet that changes in 2020.