Question for our more experienced forum members.

[SBD82]

I have a two part question for our more mature members. @Old Timer I’m looking in your direction.

Looking at the reporting of the Latrell Mitchell and Val Holmes contract sagas, I cant help noticing that the thrust of it is the money that the contracts will be worth, and there is minimal focus on what they will bring to the clubs on the field.

Question 1. Do you remember whether this was always the case in journalism to some degree? Do you remember there being discussion about the contract value of players in the pre-salary cap era?

Question 2. Do you think this has changed the way that we as fans talk about players? ie instead of focusing on the football value of a player and what they bring to the team, it becomes about their skill vs $ value? James Graham is the first example that springs to mind.

I’m wondering whether the focus on $ detracts from our enjoyment of the game. Interested in your thoughts.

 

[merahputih]

I have a two part question for our more mature members. @Old Timer I’m looking in your direction.

Looking at the reporting of the Latrell Mitchell and Val Holmes contract sagas, I cant help noticing that the thrust of it is the money that the contracts will be worth, and there is minimal focus on what they will bring to the clubs on the field.

Question 1. Do you remember whether this was always the case in journalism to some degree? Do you remember there being discussion about the contract value of players in the pre-salary cap era?

Question 2. Do you think this has changed the way that we as fans talk about players? ie instead of focusing on the football value of a player and what they bring to the team, it becomes about their skill vs $ value? James Graham is the first example that springs to mind.

I’m wondering whether the focus on $ detracts from our enjoyment of the game. Interested in your thoughts.

1. It certainly wasn't the case in my earliest memories of reading sports in the late 60's- early70',s. Players used to have full time jobs (often found for them by the club). Journos like Bill Mordey and Alan Clarkson used to pull a game apart with a deep analysis of play, tactics, etc. Never a mention of money.

2. I think the money aspect is just a reflection of modern values: go to a BBQ in Sydney and all people ever talk about is how much they can sell their home for, negative gearing, franking credits, etc.

 

[Gareth67]

I can recall a media report from the Telegraph back in the 60’s when the Englishman Malcolm Reilly was about to play in the ARL . They , the Tele. broke the news on the back page ‘ Reilly a Saint ‘. Of course as we now know he signed with the Sea Eagles , the reason was that they offered him a unit overlooking Manly beach , although the Dragons were on par with the Sea Eagles money , the beach unit was the deciding factor.

Undoubtedly one of the best buys ever for Manly , a most skillful player ( other than his Liverpool kiss which he showed to George Piggins on one occasion ) and as tough as they came .

However now it is all about the money with a lot of these younger players whom have been tagged with the star or future star status and simply do not deliver the goods over the life of their respective contracts . The fans suffer as does the game itself . Who is at fault here - the clubs for offering such extravagant amounts to get these players in their jerseys or the money hungry agents for inflating the players true value , a combination of both I am afraid .

But what also occurs is something that all true blooded fans of any club demand from their players - loyalty , that seems to have gone out of the window as too many players nowadays break their ‘ iron clad ‘ contracts as often as one changes their clothes . This is where the NRL should come into it as only they have the true power to solve this problem .

 

[Dragon Revival]

I think that the focus on dollars does detract from the game. Few players are worth over $500,000 and a lot of clubs pay overs for players such as Foran, Holmes, Mitchell, Merrin, Morris, Cherry Evans and Hayne. Such players also seem to have big egos and questionable loyalty and application. Guys like Cronk, Johns, Thurston, Smith, Sam Burgess and Reynolds regularly win games single handedly.

 

[muzby]

Given that league broke away from union over money, I’d say it’s been about the money since day dot...

 

[SBD82]

2. I think the money aspect is just a reflection of modern values: go to a BBQ in Sydney and all people ever talk about is how much they can sell their home for, negative gearing, franking credits, etc.

That’s a very good point, and one that I’d not thought of.

I was raised to believe that talking about your income was a faux pas, and discussing someone else’s was rude. That seems to have changed over the years,

 

[SBD82]

Given that league broke away from union over money, I’d say it’s been about the money since day dot...

Sure, and I don’t think that anyone would dispute the players’ right to make a wage. I’m more curious about whether the amounts have become too much of a focus for the fans and the media.

 

[muzby]

Sure, and I don’t think that anyone would dispute the players’ right to make a wage. I’m more curious about whether the amounts have become too much of a focus for the fans and the media.

For mine I see two main contributing factors..

1. The 24/7 media environment.. Content providers are looking for things to put on the web, so the overall quality of content is substituted for quantity (just look at the Dragons website...) Salary is an easy target for the media as it’s mostly speculation... Which leads us to the next factor..

2. Player managers. They use the media to inflate pricing and value for their clients. I won’t speak any more about the managers except to say the game would be better off without them..

 

[jak]

back in our day if you played badly you were dropped to reserve grade you don't see that anymore because your paid to much to be dropped or they walk out on there contract. back then you had to check who was in the team each week now you don't need a program the salary cap dictates the team.

 

[Gareth67]

I missed answering the 2nd part of your question SBD2 , but you did use James Graham as an example and what better player to showcase the ‘ pay for what you get ‘ case .

Absolute 100% whole hearted effort in each game , why because the man simply loves the game of rugby league and would continue to play on crutches if he was allowed to , a throwback to the age when playing the game was an honor .

If ever there was an advertisement for a player giving his all then this is the type of player that should be used .
He work ethic is what all young players should aspire to , by doing so only then will these high priced players ever truly deliver value for dollar .

 

[SBD82]

I missed answering the 2nd part of your question SBD2 , but you did use James Graham as an example and what better player to showcase the ‘ pay for what you get ‘ case .

Absolute 100% whole hearted effort in each game , why because the man simply loves the game of rugby league and would continue to play on crutches if he was allowed to . A throwback to the age when playing the game was a privilege and to those whom excelled an honour .

If ever there was an advertisement for a player giving his all then this is the type of player that should be used .
He work ethic is what all young players should aspire to , by doing so only then will these high priced players ever truly deliver value for dollar .

I guess that’s kind of my point. Instead of talking about Graham’s ability and strengths/ weaknesses, the conversations become about a cost/value equation.

 

[denis preston]

Money was always highlighted by the media particularly when the Leagues club brought some much wealth to some teams in the mid 60's onward, particularly us,Manly Easts , Wests and Balmain. The dragons picked up Dick Huddart for $25,000 in 1964 when the average house price was around 13k so you could say his contract was worth nearly over 2 million by today's value ! You would have to say that Raper Gasnier,Smith would have been looked after as well.Bob Fulton's contract to leave Manly in 1973 ( ? ) to Easts was nearly $50,000 and that could buy you 2 houses as well so the fallacy that contracts were not publicised and contracts today dwarf yesteryears
is not quite true.

 

[merahputih]

back in our day if you played badly you were dropped to reserve grade you don't see that anymore because your paid to much to be dropped or they walk out on there contract. back then you had to check who was in the team each week now you don't need a program the salary cap dictates the team.

Player depth also comes into the mix. Melbourne, for instance have just about every first grade spot covered by players who would be in the top grade in some other sides. Ditto the Roosters.Bellamy didn't hesitate to drop Will Chambers to the bench for a poor defensive effort last season. As for us.............

 

[BLM01]

Sure, and I don’t think that anyone would dispute the players’ right to make a wage. I’m more curious about whether the amounts have become too much of a focus for the fans and the media.

Yes $$$ is the focus since professionalism of the whole game in the 90's
Why?...because the media personnel and staff of the broadcasters, NRL admin staff and player managers and now players enjoy the ride on the curtails of all the money that the TV & pay TV throw and any corporate sponsorship throw at the game. They have created jobs and create stories to keep an existance.
They all feed off and need each other. That is why the NRL wont change things to what we all wish for.

The media did all what we see now back in the 60's and 70's but not to the cringeworthy levels and you can also blame social media, Gen Y, millenials or whatever for where it has gone to. There was no professionalism, no player managers, no mobile phones and no media hunting every player at every corner of the globe creating and waiting for stories. It was physically impossible and the out of balance desire for stories as they are now was not there
And it is gone past being just a sport for fun and the working class game yadayada.
It is all about profitable BIG business and that includes our beloved rugby league clubs.

Did not quite understand your original questions so I apologise SBD82 if I have gone off track.
But are the $$$ ruining the game. Absolutely. But only to the traditionalists and loyal supporters and fans like us that are turning away in droves.
I will refrain of going off and ranting about park, country and juniors RL again but just look at that now....answers your questions I think.
They are happy with the token fans who are not that attached to the game who just watch 1 game here at a ground or corporate sponsorships and boxes but more importantly those that subscribe to Pay TV sporting packages...cause that is what keeps the money going at these levels.
And of course being the forefront of PC where in this world of ours it has gone mad and overdone creates more interest from those token people.

 

[jak]

Player depth also comes into the mix. Melbourne, for instance have just about every first grade spot covered by players who would be in the top grade in some other sides. Ditto the Roosters.Bellamy didn't hesitate to drop Will Chambers to the bench for a poor defensive effort last season. As for us.............

yep it gets down to what you can and cant get away with cap wise

 

[SaintPauli]

No doubt the game is a business and if you want to survive you must succeed!
The successful clubs know how to run the modern day rugby leauge team. e.g. Melbourne and Roosters.
Both Roosters and Melbourne do loose stars and yet they always find replacements without going backwards. Simply our management need to have a similar mindset. Afterall is now a business !!! The days of who you know must stop unless that person is "The Best Candidate" for the job.

 

[Crush]

Ben Hunt is a great example. The 1.2 million dollar man!
This tag has seemed to have really damaged Ben as a player. I think the constant scrutiny affects him in a major way. Pricetag pressure.
And its real. He isn't playing good footy at Dragons overall. We need him to be much better.

 

[BLM01]

Ben Hunt is a great example. The 1.2 million dollar man!
This tag has seemed to have really damaged Ben as a player. I think the constant scrutiny affects him in a major way. Pricetag pressure.
And its real. He isn't playing good footy at Dragons overall. We need him to be much better.

If Ben Hunt is not on the 1.2 a year which I am hoping he is not
I have been told it is about 6 mill including the 6th year option he has
If true...why dont the club come out again and quash the rumour as the journos still run with it to ease the pressure
Or maybe its true and our Basil wont admit it.

 

[Walpole]

I think the Ben Hunt comparison goes to the heart of this thread. If you take the talk of his salary, whatever it may be, out of the equation, how does he stack up as a first grade halfback? Some days he's amongst the best in the NRL, others he really struggles. Personally I'm glad he's our half, just wish he could get past those personal demons and play his best on a more consistent basis.

 

[True_Believer]

If Ben Hunt is not on the 1.2 a year which I am hoping he is not
I have been told it is about 6 mill including the 6th year option he has
If true...why dont the club come out again and quash the rumour as the journos still run with it to ease the pressure
Or maybe its true and our Basil wont admit it.

I believe he's already come out once and denied the price tag being sprouted by the media.