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England watch 2020-21 (CupWatch #1)

adamkungl

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Ralph Rimmer is quoted as saying
“I am confident that we will do the Aussies in the Ashes series at the end of this year”

source:
So lets assume the blue stripe on the GB shirt was too distracting for the players last year and England will be back to their best. What team can they pick with the best shot at a series win at home?

Form and injuries over the next 10 months will have their say no doubt, but I'm pencilling this as a starting point

1 Lomax
2 Makinson
3 Connor
4 Gildart
5 Handley
6 Williams
7 Gale
8 Walmsley
9 Hodgson
10 Watts
11 Bateman
12 Whitehead
13 Thompson

14 Tomkins
15 T Burgess
16 G Burgess
17 McMeeken

The following are thereabouts
Liam Farrell
Josh Jones
James Roby
Daryl Clark

I'm discounting the following due to age and declining form
James Graham
Jermaine McGilvery
Sean O'Loughlin
Ryan Hall

I'm discounting the following due to being hopeless 3rd rate plodders
Jackson Hastings
Blake Austin
Gareth Widdop

Who's worth watching out for in 2020?
 
Last edited:

adamkungl

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No Widdop - Even as 2nd rate or a plodder?
I expect Graham to be there..

Haha I completely forgot Widdop.

That said, he isn't in any team I'd pick. I think he's a 'safe' but extremely limited half. In the last 3 years, all Englands best performances have come with him either at fullback or not in the side at all.
 

Burns

First Grade
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6,037
Forwards good. Backs bad. Same as it ever was. Would have Roby or Clarke in the squad.

sad to not see Hall or McGillvery.
 

Perth Red

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I've been waiting 40 years to see a England/GB series victory. I fear I may never see one in my lifetime!
 

adamkungl

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42,955
I've been waiting 40 years to see a England/GB series victory. I fear I may never see one in my lifetime!

Imo this is the weakest Australian team in a long time. It's now or never. 2 years in a row at home.

Forwards good. Backs bad. Same as it ever was. Would have Roby or Clarke in the squad.

sad to not see Hall or McGillvery.

That's as strong a backline as they can name and I don't think it's poor. Handley maybe the iffiest - will keep an eye out for other wingers through the year.
There are options at fullback - Tomkins Hardaker and in a pinch Ratchford but Lomax probably has first shot.

I'll admit I forgot about Roby first. He's as talented an Englishman as there has been in the last 20 years, but is pushing 35!

Hodgson is being criticised recently for his perceived overly dominant play but working with good halves (ie not Widdop and Hastings) he's come up with the goods before.

Was tossing up between Clark and Tomkins on the bench, and I think Sam is the better option. Can play anywhere in the backline, would do the job at rake, and can come on as a ball playing lock to change things up. Clark in the extended squad though.

Hall isn't even playing first grade, McGilvery underperformed in 2019 both at club and test level. Both are over 30.
 

JFK Files

Juniors
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74
I think 2020 is the year you will see some new fresh names, I think Jake Trueman, Tom Johnstone & possibly Stevie Ward if he stays fit will get a chance.
 

Springs09

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1,903
Widdop has always played better as a fullback for England, he was their form player at fullback in 2017.
Doesn't Lomax play at 6 for St Helens? Why haven't they tried him at 6 for England?

I'd go something like
1. Gareth Widdop
2. Tom Makinson
3. Jake Connor
4. Oliver Gildart
5. Tom Johnstone
6. Jonny Lomax
7. George Williams
8. Luke Thompson
9. Josh Hodgson
10. James Graham
11. Ben Currie
12. Elliot Whitehead
13. John Bateman

14. Daryl Clark
15. Tom Burgess
16. Alex Walmsley
17. Liam Watts

18. Sam Tomkins
19. Jack Walker
20. Ash Handley
21. Jake Trueman
22. Josh Jones
23. Stevie Ward
24. Matty Lees

Widdop was England's best player at fullback in 2017 and I'd give him another go there with Lomax at 6. Hopefully Williams excels in the 7 at Canberra. Jake Trueman seems a good young player and I'd give him a run in the squad. Gale has never seemed up to it. Hastings or Austin - no thanks.

Tomkins is still one of England's best attacking options and should be given first crack if Widdop fails. Jack Walker should be pushed through the system quicker. Evalds is another who seems ok. Hardaker would be alright though he's never been exceptional in an England shirt, while Ratchford is good for utility value but likely 4th or 5th choice at fullback.

Makinson is an obvious choice for one wing. Johnstone is on fire whenever he's not injured, hopefully he can stay fit for a couple seasons. Handley looks the next best choice. Hall and McGillvary are just that foot too slow now.

Connor and Gildart seem like the only centre choices. Watkins has fallen off the map, same with Percival. Hardaker is average at centre and England's other centre choices in recent years have been backrowers.

England still have plenty of choice in props. Graham may be over the hill a little but has never let England down and I don't think ever will. If he's still around he should be picked. Thompson for the other starter with Walmsley and Watts on the bench. We know how good Tom Burgess can be but he needs to show it a bit more. George has been mediocre lately but if he's back to his best for Wigan he can be right back in there. Matty Lees seems a good young player I'd give a shot. Hill is a bit too past it now.

Hodgson is usually rubbish in an England shirt but his potential can't be denied. Maybe if Bennett isn't coach he'd be better. Clark just over Roby for me, though like Graham I don't think Roby would ever let England down even if he was 35. The best I've seen England is when Roby is at hooker. That said Clark is the form Super League hooker.

Back-row I'm very much not a fan of an extra prop at lock which I think wastes the position. Bateman is just as good at lock as on an edge. Currie I think is a great player and should be there if he keeps fit. Whitehead goes without saying. Josh Jones or Jack Hughes would be a suitable back-up. Stevie Ward was a player I always heard great things about but always pulled out injured when selected for England, haven't heard much of him since but surely he still has that potential? O'Loughlin is too old and though still has some good in him is not worth keeping a younger player out of the squad for. Joe Philbin I left out cause I hope he sticks with Ireland.
 

adamkungl

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"Widdop sucks" is the hill I die on

Imo James Graham tries his guts out but he doesn't have the impact anymore, and this will only get more pronounced by years end/next years world cup.
 

Springs09

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Not every prop needs a big impact though, and I'd much rather James Graham try his guts out and make 40 tackles a game than have a George Burgess make 4 handling errors a game.
 

adamkungl

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42,955
GB 'middle forwards' run metres on tour, v NZ1, NZ2, Tonga, PNG

Hill 86, 57, 99, 53
T Burgess 117, 84, 156, 119
Graham 68, 62, 67, NA
Thomson 62, NA, 105
Walmsley 110, 120, 152, 115
Philbin 112, NA, NA, 121
Jones 81, 69, 117, NA

(NAs include early injury)

One stat doesn't tell a whole picture obviously, but Walmsley and and Tom B really stand out here. Hill and Grahams attacking numbers are poor.
Graham is probably the strongest defender of the group but is it enough with some quality young players coming through?
 

adamkungl

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42,955
Does anyone think the RFL has the audacity to punt Bennett?

Or maybe a bigger call, keep him on but pull him into line on his ridiculous selection policies...
 

Perth Red

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Wouldn't be so bad but there is a very good English coach sitting with nothing to do! Give Shaun Wane the job you muppets.
 

TDD91

Juniors
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473
Wouldn't be so bad but there is a very good English coach sitting with nothing to do! Give Shaun Wane the job you muppets.

Couldn't agree more. He'd have players running through walls to play for the shirt. Might not be the prettiest style of play, but we'd put up a better fight than we did under Bennett.
 

JFK Files

Juniors
Messages
74
3 players that English Rugby League need to overcome injuries and rediscover their best form is Ben Currie, Kallum Watkins & Mark Percival. At their best they are a genuine attacking threat, something they lacked out wide last November.
Tom Johnstone, Dom Manfredi & Luke Gale will also put pressure on if fit.
 

adamkungl

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42,955
3 players that English Rugby League need to overcome injuries and rediscover their best form is Ben Currie, Kallum Watkins & Mark Percival. At their best they are a genuine attacking threat, something they lacked out wide last November.
Tom Johnstone, Dom Manfredi & Luke Gale will also put pressure on if fit.

Watkins is playing in Australia, he's a shoe in if Bennett is still coach
 

Walter sobchak

First Grade
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3 players that English Rugby League need to overcome injuries and rediscover their best form is Ben Currie, Kallum Watkins & Mark Percival. At their best they are a genuine attacking threat, something they lacked out wide last November.
Tom Johnstone, Dom Manfredi & Luke Gale will also put pressure on if fit.
Had devastating injuries not struck Manfredi over these past 3 years then he would have been one of the first names on the team sheet.

Injuries have also plagued Johnstone and robbed him of a definite international callup too.
 

JFK Files

Juniors
Messages
74
Seriously if Jack Welsby doesn’t get any major injury he could play fullback in the Ashes test series, even though he’s 18 the kid is a phenomenal player. Only a handful of players in RL could produce a pass he made today for St Helens which setup a try.
 

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