2020 season

[franklin2323]

Yeah he is a good player and should continue to get better but if he was going to be an origin level prop he'd have shown us a bit more by now IMO. He just has not had the ball running impact so far in his FG career to be considered as above average.

Well look at all the players we have held back and released only CHN has improved. The rest don't improve or go backwards. That to me is a player issue not coaching

 

[franklin2323]

He was terrific backend of last year. I agree, I think he's a lot better than people make him out to be & his 'lack of engine' has more to do with lack of opportunity to play big minutes.

Don't agree that he doesn't have an impact with the ball. He's got good footwork, built low to the ground & falls flat on his front more times than not which leads to quick play the balls. I think Api's running game will only accentuate his strengths with the ball.

If true we will see. Atleast one bench spot is open for round 1. 2 if they don't run Kenny to cover Api so will get his chance to show what he has

 

[betcats]

He was terrific backend of last year. I agree, I think he's a lot better than people make him out to be & his 'lack of engine' has more to do with lack of opportunity to play big minutes.

Don't agree that he doesn't have an impact with the ball. He's got good footwork, built low to the ground & falls flat on his front more times than not which leads to quick play the balls. I think Api's running game will only accentuate his strengths with the ball.

He gets fast play the balls at the expense of metres and impact on the defensive line. His post contact metres aren't even close to good. He doesn't bend the line at all.

 

[franklin2323]

He gets fast play the balls at the expense of metres and impact on the defensive line. His post contact metres aren't even close to good. He doesn't bend the line at all.

Which is why I say he starts or not at all. He'd be perfect if we use the Tamou money for JAC or something

 

[betcats]

Which is why I say he starts or not at all. He'd be perfect if we use the Tamou money for JAC or something

I think he is a good starter because of his defensive strengths and weaknesses. He hits hard and dominates tackles which is great in particular for the early physical battle at the start of halves. When the defensive line is struggling and there is more space between defenders later in the halves is when his lateral movement can be found out and exploited.

With the ball he is solid I don't think big minutes really make a difference to his attacking game other then him getting more runs, he isn't going to suddenly becoming some barnstormer because he is getting 50-60 instead pf 30.

 

[Whino]

Panthers Stat to Fix: Yardage game
Author
Chris Kennedy
There were a few glaring statistical shortcomings in Penrith's 2019 performance but arguably the most significant was a struggle to keep pace with the top teams when it came to grinding out metres through the mid-field.

The Panthers had the worst completion rate in the NRL of 73.1% but the next few worst – the Sharks (73.6%), Roosters (74.5%), Sea Eagles (75.5%) and Eels (75.6%) all made the finals and it didn't stop Penrith owning just over half of possession (50.1%) through games or camping in opposition halves for 55% of matches (second best rate after Melbourne).

It was a similar tale with penalties - the Panthers were the worst in the NRL with 189 penalties conceded but again, the top teams were in a similar spot with the Roosters and Sea Eagles (both 175), Raiders (173) and Storm (163) also in the worst six clubs.

So Ivan Cleary's men were at least in lofty company when it came to completion rates and penalties conceded.

The same was not true of the Panthers' ability to gain yardage, finishing last in the NRL for metres gained per set at 40.0 metres.

The next three lowest figures were the Titans (40.3), Cowboys (40.4) and Knights (40.9) while five of the top seven teams for metres gained per set made the finals. Premiers the Roosters were on top with 44.0.

The Panthers had plenty of hard workers in both the forwards and backs prepared to roll their sleeves up but as a unit the team did not get over the advantage line enough, providing an obvious area for improvement heading into 2020.
https://www.nrl.com/news/2020/01/13/panthers-stat-to-fix-yardage-game/

 

[betcats]

"The same was not true of the Panthers' ability to gain yardage, finishing last in the NRL for metres gained per set at 40.0 metres."

We did not stroll down field with ease last year. Put that myth to bed. I find it hilarious that some posters criticised the club for buying forwards "after we made metres so easily last season" and it turns out we were last for metres per set. Lets not let the truth get in the way of a good Cleary bashing!

 

[franklin2323]

"The same was not true of the Panthers' ability to gain yardage, finishing last in the NRL for metres gained per set at 40.0 metres."

We did not stroll down field with ease last year. Put that myth to bed. I find it hilarious that some posters criticised the club for buying forwards "after we made metres so easily last season" and it turns out we were last for metres per set. Lets not let the truth get in the way of a good Cleary bashing!

I wasn't opposed to a centre coming. Would of taken Latrell as a centre and Walker would of been good.

Though I see it as the last step.
Also needed consistency in the pack- Which we now look to have
Better hooker. We now have
Need more from the spine next- Luai is still very raw so a season extra will be good to re-asses. Edwards off contract so can go another way if he fails.

Then is centre

 

[franklin2323]

I think he is a good starter because of his defensive strengths and weaknesses. He hits hard and dominates tackles which is great in particular for the early physical battle at the start of halves. When the defensive line is struggling and there is more space between defenders later in the halves is when his lateral movement can be found out and exploited.

With the ball he is solid I don't think big minutes really make a difference to his attacking game other then him getting more runs, he isn't going to suddenly becoming some barnstormer because he is getting 50-60 instead pf 30.

I think the bench should offer impact. The starters should set the game up. Someone like him starting you shouldn't get trampled early and should hold your own. Allowing Leinu and co to come on and have tiring defence to come on too

 

[betcats]

I wasn't opposed to a centre coming. Would of taken Latrell as a centre and Walker would of been good.

Though I see it as the last step.
Also needed consistency in the pack- Which we now look to have
Better hooker. We now have
Need more from the spine next- Luai is still very raw so a season extra will be good to re-asses. Edwards off contract so can go another way if he fails.

Then is centre

I am certainly not opposed to getting a back. I can see we have a lack of established outside backs. That being said outside backs is by a long way the least important component of a rugby league team. The spine and forwards are both far more important. Id say its 40/40/20 - 40 percent spine, 40 percent forwards and 20 percent backs.

 

[franklin2323]

I am certainly not opposed to getting a back. I can see we have a lack of established outside backs. That being said outside backs is by a long way the least important component of a rugby league team. The spine and forwards are both far more important. Id say its 40/40/20 - 40 percent spine, 40 percent forwards and 20 percent backs.

If you defend well you can win games without great outside backs with a good pack. You can't win games without a good pack

 

[betcats]

If you defend well you can win games without great outside backs with a good pack. You can't win games without a good pack

Yep I agree, You can even have good backs and spine but if the forwards don't do their job that team will struggle. While a great forward pack with average spine and backs will do much better.

 

[Dave's mate]

Jimmy not being here drops a million or so penalties for the year

 

[franklin2323]

Yep I agree, You can even have good backs and spine but if the forwards don't do their job that team will struggle. While a great forward pack with average spine and backs will do much better.

To’o and Naden showed glimpses. Edwards will suppport so can be used in the middle running off offloads. So can get enough points if we do the basics right

 

[betcats]

Jimmy not being here drops a million or so penalties for the year

Some of the shit he would give away FMD.

We couldn’t defend a mistake to save our lives last season and Jimmy would compound every mistake by hitting some merkin high on tackle one because he was frustrated.

 

[OldPanther]

He gets fast play the balls at the expense of metres and impact on the defensive line. His post contact metres aren't even close to good. He doesn't bend the line at all.

That's not inherently negative. A fast play the ball is becoming extremely important, just look at Cameron Murray.

 

[betcats]

That's not inherently negative. A fast play the ball is becoming extremely important, just look at Cameron Murray.

Im not saying its a negative or he is a negative over all, not even close. But when I say he lacks impact running the ball that is what I mean, he doesn't bend the line or make many post contact metres. Fast play the balls are very valuable and its nice to have some variation but the best props, the rep level props move the defensive line back.

Cam Murray has a lot more to offer then just fast play the balls, he and Leoata aren't the same player so its not a fair comparison for Moses really.

 

[age.s]

Wait, does "meters per set" include the stupid number of sets we had camped on the opposition goal line? The sets where we had 5 tackles in the opposition 20 and made 5-20 odd meters? Meaningless statistic if so.

 

[betcats]

Wait, does "meters per set" include the stupid number of sets we had camped on the opposition goal line? The sets where we had 5 tackles in the opposition 20 and made 5-20 odd meters? Meaningless statistic if so.

Of course it does. It includes those same sets for every side so no that doesn't make it meaningless at all. Our overall running metres per game was down near the bottom, our PCT metres was down near the bottom. There are numerous stats that show we struggled for metres.

Cowboys
Dragons
Titans
Knights

Above are the only teams that ran for less metres over the season then we did. That is the bottom 3 sides in the competition and the knights who finished right behind us. Its pretty ugly TBH.

I find any argument that we got up the field easily pretty stupid at this point.

 

[snickers007]

"The same was not true of the Panthers' ability to gain yardage, finishing last in the NRL for metres gained per set at 40.0 metres."

We did not stroll down field with ease last year. Put that myth to bed. I find it hilarious that some posters criticised the club for buying forwards "after we made metres so easily last season" and it turns out we were last for metres per set. Lets not let the truth get in the way of a good Cleary bashing!

Just looking at the metres gained per set statistic by itself is futile as there are so many other things that can impact it.

Exhibit A: our 11.7 errors per match. If those mistakes occur early in the tackle count that cripples our metres gained. And considering Edwards, Mansour and DWZ are all in the Top 20 for errors last season, it's likely that they were mostly tackles 1 - 3.


Exhibit B: overall field position. NRL Stats has us with the most play the balls inside the opposition 20m. From that position, our yardage is limited.If we start the set inside the 20, the maximum metres we can make in that set us 20m.

Exhibit C: overall effectiveness of our sets. It's not all about making yards with the ball. Things like pinning the opposition within their red zone, scoring points, and getting repeat sets all go hand in hand with winning games. We were mid-pack in this regard. There's a lot of conclusions that you can draw from that too - including, that if our running game is struggling to make yards, our kicking game can help carry the load.

Nothing happens inside a vacuum. Our 40 metres per set wasn't the reason we were shit last year, and doesn't prove that our forwards were shit either. I mean we were shit, but maybe not in the way you're thinking.

TL;DR. Piss poor analysis by the NRL.com


Edit: and beaten above by age.s (and much more succinctly)