Dark Side of the Ring

[Scott Gourley's Lovechild]

I had heard great things about this series from some of the podcasts I listen to, such as the Dutch Mantell Show, Something to Wrestle with Bruce Prichard and The Jim Cornette Experience. I’m currently watching the Montreal Screwjob episode, and it’s awesome.

Except for Scott Hall. Love the guy, but this was not a work.

 

[Scott Gourley's Lovechild]

Was never a huge fan of Bret. After this, I have a lower opinion of Bret.

Only one who comes out far worse than I thought of them before - Vince Russo. I have no respect for the guy. Watching this, I have even less.

 

[bileduct]

Was never a huge fan of Bret. After this, I have a lower opinion of Bret.

Only one who comes out far worse than I thought of them before - Vince Russo. I have no respect for the guy. Watching this, I have even less.

Meh, to me he comes out exactly as I thought of him all along. A guy that was an outsider to the business of professional wrestling who helped bring about changes to the WWF that brought it out of the mire it was stuck in at the time. The Attitude Era absolutely changed the company and brought back many old fans, such as myself, to watching wrestling.

Brawl for All was obviously a dumb idea in retrospect because of the impact it had on the business, but Vince McMahon didn't have the foresight to shut it down ahead of time or while it was in progress either. Plus it was good seeing Bradshaw get knocked out.

Jim Cornette is the one who really grated on my nerves while watching this show. I can't stand the guy.

 

[Valheru]

I was never as sympathetic towards bret as others. He definitely got screwed, can't deny that but at the end of the day he was on his way out and refused to do business.

Yes Shawn was a prick at the time and blah blah blah but bret claims he is the ultimate professional but obviously not.

 

[Big Pete]

I'm still with Bret on this - he loved the company and was set to remain apart of the promotion for 20 years when Vince asked him if the WCW contract was on the table. For the sake of the WWF, Bret took that job opportunity his one condition is that he didn't want to drop it to Shawn who had been a prick the entire year and nearly sunk the company with his Wrestlemania stunt.

Bret gave them months to come up with a suitable opponent, but they kept pushing Shawn.

It's easy for us fans to say 'suck up and do it pussy' but when you've been on the road for this company and basically watched your family life flash by like that movie Click only for Vince to turn around and drop you when he's in a bind. If I was going out of my way to do something I didn't want to do, I'd make sure I was taken care of.

Instead Vince totally exploited Bret for his own gain and since the world is messed up, it basically allowed him to become the biggest villain in Pro Wrestling and save his company.

 

[mozza91]

Watched a bunch of episodes yesterday.

I’ve never been very sympathetic towards Bret. Refusing to drop the belt in Montreal and expect to just hand it over the next night was absurd. It would’ve been a horrible look for the WWF. Obviously Vince did a shitty thing and it was his fault that it got to that stage, but there wasn’t much else that they could do on the night once Bret refused to drop the title.

Watched the New Jack one as well. What a total piece of shit that guy is. Never watched ECW or been particularly interested in Hardcore wrestling so I didn’t know too much about him but some of the horrible shit he’s done and his total lack of remorse is insane. It was pretty disappointing that the show glorified him as well.

 

[Big Pete]

I agree that Bret's idea to vacate the title would have been dumb but it was just one of several he gave them.

He was more than happy to put anyone over, just not Shawn.

It was the one favour Vince was supposed to grant him and he screwed him on it.

I do agree with Cornette that it's difficult to get upset for someone when they're getting paid $3 Million a year over having to lose a match, but Bret was clearly the lesser evil here.

 

[The Vaulting Violinist]

Watched a bunch of episodes yesterday.

I’ve never been very sympathetic towards Bret. Refusing to drop the belt in Montreal and expect to just hand it over the next night was absurd. It would’ve been a horrible look for the WWF. Obviously Vince did a shitty thing and it was his fault that it got to that stage, but there wasn’t much else that they could do on the night once Bret refused to drop the title.

Watched the New Jack one as well. What a total piece of shit that guy is. Never watched ECW or been particularly interested in Hardcore wrestling so I didn’t know too much about him but some of the horrible shit he’s done and his total lack of remorse is insane. It was pretty disappointing that the show glorified him as well.

New jack is a crazy cat. I have to admit to liking him after seeing a lot of his work in smoky mountain in ecw. That said - what he has done in the ring is crazy and psychotic. Way too many drugs and booze

the brawl for all episode was fascinating. The story of Bart Gunn was amazing, I loved how he knocked out Bradshaw. What a twat.

the dino bravo story will be super interesting. For me this is as good as 30:30

 

[bileduct]

Bret definitely got f**ked over by Vince.

Vince was paranoid about WCW (though with good reason, they were humiliating him) and WWF was in financial peril. Bret had been a company guy the entire time having already knocked back WCW once before, and then found himself in the position where Vince was telling him the money wasn't there anymore and the creative team didn't have much of a future for him. Vince was actively creating the conditions for Bret to leave of his own accord well before the Montreal Screwjob.

For all Bret's loyalty to Vince, the only exit Vince would offer him was losing cleanly to Shawn Michaels, the guy he f**king hated, in his own country. Vince is the one who wouldn't budge.

Then he brought out a midget dressed as Bret the next night on Raw to bury him.

 

[Valheru]

Was there actually a viable opponent for bret to drop the title to other than Shawn in November 1997?

Austin returned from that neck injury at survivor series.

Undertaker was written off television until the rumble as part of the kane storyline.

Vader was a shell of himself and being robbed out left right and centre.

Mick foley is about the only other one i can think of and he was being fed to kane.

Shawn really was the only choice unless you bring taker back early, have him win (without kane interfering) and then have kane cost him the title at rumble.

 

[Scott Gourley's Lovechild]

The only other talent at that time that was really on a roll was Ken Shamrock.

 

[bileduct]

Brett gave other options for handing over the belt to Shawn. He said he could win the match and Survivor Series and then lose then next night on Raw, or he could just hand over the belt the next night on Raw.

Brett had a clause in his contract that gave him creative control over his character for the final 60 days of the contract. That's another thing that Vince refused to honour, because he wanted to bury Brett on the way out, which is precisely the kind of thing Brett had the 60 day clause for in his contract in the first place.

 

[Big Pete]

Was there actually a viable opponent for bret to drop the title to other than Shawn in November 1997?

Maybe not by November, but Vince had since at least September to come up with a contingency plan and stubbornly stayed with Shawn.

At the end of the day, Vince 100% made the right decision. Even his initial back track worked because it made him a bigger heel and got more eyeballs on the product.

However he totally screwed over one of his boys over in the process.

Vince screwed Bret and became a billionaire.

If I was fantasy booking an alternative, I would have Vince bring in a ringer and have them KO Bret Butterbean style before doing the favour to Shawn and keeping the status quo from there. Shamrock would be the easiest to set up, but if you really wanted to push the angle have Severn come in and debut him as the legitimate badass that he was.

 

[Valheru]

Brett gave other options for handing over the belt to Shawn. He said he could win the match and Survivor Series and then lose then next night on Raw, or he could just hand over the belt the next night on Raw.

Brett had a clause in his contract that gave him creative control over his character for the final 60 days of the contract. That's another thing that Vince refused to honour, because he wanted to bury Brett on the way out, which is precisely the kind of thing Brett had the 60 day clause for in his contract in the first place.

See this is what i don't get.

What is the difference between doing the job at SS or RAW the next night?

 

[Big Pete]

See this is what i don't get.

What is the difference between doing the job at SS or RAW the next night?

One of them would require Shawn putting Bret over first. It would also cement Bret's status in Canada and at least save face with his local fans after Shawn shoved the Canadian flag up his nose.

 

[The Vaulting Violinist]

Sbs are showing these on Monday nights at about 1030

 

[Styles clash]

Chris Benoit episodes were good

 

[The Vaulting Violinist]

The David Schultz episode last night was really interesting. Hadn’t heard the whole backstory before, crazy episode

 

[The Vaulting Violinist]

Owens episode tonight...barely got through it. Still so sad. The response of the wwe and Vince was disgusting. I hate those merkins and I wouldn’t shed a tear if it all collapsed tomorrow. Pigs

 

[mackdadday]

Owens episode tonight...barely got through it. Still so sad. The response of the wwe and Vince was disgusting. I hate those merkins and I wouldn’t shed a tear if it all collapsed tomorrow. Pigs

I think the fact they continued on with Owens blood their on the canvas is woeful. I wonder if we will ever get a full understanding of the shit Vınce has orchestrated over the years.