The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[Zadar]

That artists impression is almost a decade old, it was part of the city to the lake project. It is not based on any blueprint nor an architects design.
You'll notice that it doesn't have a roof and that even in the artist impression a full bowl doesn't fit on the site, basically it's a BS fantasy and the end product won't look anything like it.

The government has already admitted that 20k is about all that will fit on the site, even if Parkes Way is moved, and frankly a 20k stadium simply isn't feasible as the main stadium for a city the size of Canberra.


Nope it has to be enclosed.

If it's enclosed you could basically add roughly 5k to any attendance just on that fact alone and it can be used as an arena for rock concerts and traveling shows, which would be invaluable. Basically it being enclosed would have such a massive impact in a city like Canberra that it should basically be treated as an indispensable feature.

And again, to make it as clear as possible to everyone, unless you are eating into commonwealth park or onto ANU grounds (both of which are extremely unlikely to happen), there isn't anywhere in Civic where a Bankwest clone (or anything similar) would fit without knocking down buildings, which definitely isn't happening.

We're basically at the point where a stadium in Civic isn't reasonably feasible unless it's one that doesn't fit the city's needs, and we should just accept that to get the best result it will have to be built in one of the other large city centres (i.e. Woden, Belconnen, Tuggeranong, or Gungahlin).
As the city centre that is second closest to the centre of Canberra Woden would probably be the best result IMO, but hypothetically you could build it in any of the others and it would still be a better outcome than somewhere like Bruce or Epic.

the grand plan years ago was that Parkes way would be turned into a tunnel, to make the whole area between the convention Center and the lake available to build on, still waiting for the 6 star casino that was going to be built in Glebe park too.

 

[The Great Dane]

the grand plan years ago was that Parkes way would be turned into a tunnel, to make the whole area between the convention Center and the lake available to build on, still waiting for the 6 star casino that was going to be built in Glebe park too.

None of it will happen, at least not as they have been claiming it will happen.

Even the light rail won't reach everywhere that they claim it will, it'll never reach Tuggeranong for example.

 

[Jamberoo]

It's not going to happen anytime soon, definitely not in the first half of this decade.

Both parties know that there really isn't space for it in Civic anymore, and that even if they did try to squash it onto the Civic Pool site there's not enough space to build a big enough stadium to meet the cities needs. It would also be prohibitively expensive and extremely disruptive to the city, and they can't really afford to do that while they are also building the second phase of light rail through the city.

So now Labour is trying to buy time in the hope that it'll become palatable to stakeholders for it to be built in another location where there's more space, such as the current site in Bruce or at Epic. It won't work because building it in Bruce or at Epic won't fix any of the major problems with the stadium, but they'll try to convince everybody anyway.

On top of all that, both parties, but particularly Labour, also really want to build an oval, and think that if they procrastinate enough that they might be able to convince the major stakeholders around to the idea as well.
Of course that won't work because a "multipurpose" stadium would destroy the Raiders and Brumbies business (you're in relocation territory if that happens), but the government doesn't want to have to spend the money to maintain two major stadiums if they can avoid it, and Labour also seems to want to do everything in their power to build Canberra in Melbourne's image. Barr also dreams of appeasing the AFL enough that they give Canberra it's own AFL team, which will also never happen for a bunch of reasons.

Basically the whole situation is a shit show and the only way Canberra gets a new stadium this decade is if either the federal government steps in with federal funding, which almost certainly won't happen, or if some of the major sports step in and actively try to force the governments hand, which is also pretty unlikely and if one did it would probably be the AFL which would be bad for the rectangular sports.

There is talk down here about Canberra being the 20th AFL club if/after Tassie comes in 2025. It is less than 50/50 that Tassie gets a team so unlikely that Canberra gets one, but perhaps they are waiting on that. Perhaps they build a new rectangular stadium and return Bruce to an oval.

 

[Vee]

Barr won't be around forever, and it wouldn't take too much for things to change.

For example any of the A-league bid finally getting up, the Brumbies going broke, or the NSW government getting involved (they've shown a willingness to work with the Raiders and Brumbies in exchange for favours before), would totally throw things on their head for better or worse.

Yeah, good luck with those.

 

[baselinepanther]

Thankyou. That's a tight site.

Personally, I don't think an enclosed stadium is a necessity in Canberra and an unnecessary luxury. Canberran's are used to attending matches in cold temps and having a fully enclosed stadium would significantly add to costs.
I actually think that while we have a rugby league loving PM, the ACT, the NRL, RA and the FFA should all be binding together to push the feds for a significant funding arrangement. It has happened elsewhere (Townsville for example).
A city stadium (rectangular only ffs) is a no brainer for Canberra. It can be done on the cheap like Bankwest was, which is still a magnificent stadium.

even if we are used to it , it doesn't mean we like it ... & it doesn't mean it doesnt deter a lot of people too who now have access to games on pay so don't have to attend games on cold bleak nights

our biggest crowds attend in good weather usually , so no we need an indoor venue down here.

 

[baselinepanther]

Morrison is a god send , not just an RL lover ..he is a freak for the sport & holds it way above all other
sports. We need to take advantage of this while it lasts , as Dane says what ever that may be

 

[magpie_man]

There is talk down here about Canberra being the 20th AFL club if/after Tassie comes in 2025. It is less than 50/50 that Tassie gets a team so unlikely that Canberra gets one, but perhaps they are waiting on that. Perhaps they build a new rectangular stadium and return Bruce to an oval.

Tassie should've been a deadset lock for #18 but that's another discussion.

 

[The Great Dane]

Tassie should've been a deadset lock for #18 but that's another discussion.

If you leave aside the amorphous stuff (like how invested each market is into the game), at the very least both Canberra and Newcastle, and maybe some others as well, are better markets than Tasmania by most metrics.

Take Canberra for example;

• Canberra is bigger than either Hobart or Launceston individually, and at current growth rates will have a higher population than all of Tasmania in a generation or so.
  
• As the above would suggest, Canberra has a much higher population density than Tasmania.
• The population has much more disposable income than the Tasmanian population.
• Both city's potential local sponsorship markets are of similar size.
• The ACT has a government that would be just as favourable to a local team as Tasmania's would be.
  
• Both would cost the AFL similar amounts in grants to prop up their existence.
• If you add Southern NSW into their junior base it isn't that far behind Tasmania's and has much more room for growth.
• It's well situated between Melbourne and Sydney, making away trips easy for both cities.
• A team in the ACT/Capital Region would cause all sorts of problems for the AFL's main competitors, and would massively boost the sport's growth in the ACT and NSW more broadly.

The only things Tasmania really has over Canberra are a lack of competition in the market, marginally better stadiums (though the ACT government would instantly build a better oval if the AFL announced a Canberran team), and potentially the fanaticism of the fan base, though personally I think the amount of support for a Canberran AFL team would surprise a lot of people and that in reality they'd both draw similar amounts of support.

I'm not saying that Canberra or Newcastle will, or even should, get an AFL team before Tasmania, if I'm honest I don't really have a strong opinion on that. I'm just saying that if you take a close look at Tasmania as a market it isn't as cut and dried that an AFL team there would be as great an idea as many people think that it is, and despite all their passion Tasmania still has a lot of things going against it as a market.

Anyway enough talk about the AFL.

 

[MugaB]

https://www.ausleisure.com.au/news/...f-sydneys-brookvale-oval-and-penrith-stadium/

Looks like concord oval is getting a much needed revamp, although its more likely only for training and lower grade games

 

[baselinepanther]

There is talk down here about Canberra being the 20th AFL club if/after Tassie comes in 2025. It is less than 50/50 that Tassie gets a team so unlikely that Canberra gets one, but perhaps they are waiting on that. Perhaps they build a new rectangular stadium and return Bruce to an oval.

the mediocre at best support the 17th & 18th clubs have attracted will ensure if the AFL expands it will be in the heartland ... 3rd WA & Tasmania will be the clubs , if they happen at all.

 

[Tiger Shark]

https://www.ausleisure.com.au/news/...f-sydneys-brookvale-oval-and-penrith-stadium/

Looks like concord oval is getting a much needed revamp, although its more likely only for training and lower grade games

Yeah it's basically the Tigers COE.

 

[MugaB]

Yeah it's basically the Tigers COE.

Thats a bit of an oxymoron

 

[magpie_man]

Thats a bit of an oxymoron

Centre of Mediocrity

 

[MugaB]

Centre of Mediocrity

I love your avatar!!!

 

[magpie_man]

If you leave aside the amorphous stuff (like how invested each market is into the game), at the very least both Canberra and Newcastle, and maybe some others as well, are better markets than Tasmania by most metrics.

Take Canberra for example;

• Canberra is bigger than either Hobart or Launceston individually, and at current growth rates will have a higher population than all of Tasmania in a generation or so.
  
• As the above would suggest, Canberra has a much higher population density than Tasmania.
• The population has much more disposable income than the Tasmanian population.
• Both city's potential local sponsorship markets are of similar size.
• The ACT has a government that would be just as favourable to a local team as Tasmania's would be.
  
• Both would cost the AFL similar amounts in grants to prop up their existence.
• If you add Southern NSW into their junior base it isn't that far behind Tasmania's and has much more room for growth.
• It's well situated between Melbourne and Sydney, making away trips easy for both cities.
• A team in the ACT/Capital Region would cause all sorts of problems for the AFL's main competitors, and would massively boost the sport's growth in the ACT and NSW more broadly.

The only things Tasmania really has over Canberra are a lack of competition in the market, marginally better stadiums (though the ACT government would instantly build a better oval if the AFL announced a Canberran team), and potentially the fanaticism of the fan base, though personally I think the amount of support for a Canberran AFL team would surprise a lot of people and that in reality they'd both draw similar amounts of support.

I'm not saying that Canberra or Newcastle will, or even should, get an AFL team before Tasmania, if I'm honest I don't really have a strong opinion on that. I'm just saying that if you take a close look at Tasmania as a market it isn't as cut and dried that an AFL team there would be as great an idea as many people think that it is, and despite all their passion Tasmania still has a lot of things going against it as a market.

Anyway enough talk about the AFL.

You can't simply disregard over a century of support and passion for the game and, up until very recently, a strong grassroots and lower-tier system producing a steady stream of grade-level playing talent as "amorphous" though.
Nor can you definitively state that there would be any sort of superior infrastructure investment/funding from the ACT/NSW Government and not from Tassie. The cultural impact of a representative team in the AFL would be far more pertinent for Tassie than the ACT or NSW and the Tassie Government know it.
At the end of the day, for a game that makes bombastic overtures to being a cultural icon and intrinsically embedded into the national identity it snubbed the heartland to chase the $$s and is much poorer for it in more ways than one.
And that's not saying that Canberra shouldn't have a team either, however that could much more easily have been a relocation.

 

[The Great Dane]

You can't simply disregard over a century of support and passion for the game and, up until very recently, a strong grassroots and lower-tier system producing a steady stream of grade-level playing talent as "amorphous" though.
Nor can you definitively state that there would be any sort of superior infrastructure investment/funding from the ACT/NSW Government and not from Tassie. The cultural impact of a representative team in the AFL would be far more pertinent for Tassie than the ACT or NSW and the Tassie Government know it.
At the end of the day, for a game that makes bombastic overtures to being a cultural icon and intrinsically embedded into the national identity it snubbed the heartland to chase the $$s and is much poorer for it in more ways than one.
And that's not saying that Canberra shouldn't have a team either, however that could much more easily have been a relocation.

You can, in fact you have to, disregard it if the business side of things doesn't stack up.

All that other stuff doesn't matter one bit if the club wouldn't make commercial sense, and that's more or less my whole point about Tasmania, the business side doesn't stack up and other markets always have, and probably always will, make more commercial sense then they do.

BTW, I never said that there would be superior investment in infrastructure from the ACT or NSW government than Tasmania. I don't know where you got that from...

 

[Jamberoo]

Back to rectangular stadiums...
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/soc...ate-in-bid-for-more-fans-20201214-p56nda.html
Melbourne City A League to move to the other side of Melbourne and the 15K stadium at Dandenong station is back on the agenda. Obviously a second decent stadium would be a good thing for rectangular sports. Western United were supposed to be build a 15K stadium in the western suburbs (closer to where most of Melbourne's 13 community RL clubs are located), but that may never happen. Soccer is a bit on the nose here .

 

[Quicksilver]

If they build that then we should be looking at Melbourne 2 before Adelaide and Perth.

 

[The Great Dane]

If they build that then we should be looking at Melbourne 2 before Adelaide and Perth.

15k is nowhere near big enough for an NRL club.

 

[unforgiven]

https://www.ausleisure.com.au/news/...f-sydneys-brookvale-oval-and-penrith-stadium/

Looks like concord oval is getting a much needed revamp, although its more likely only for training and lower grade games

This has already started, it is a community centre and the Wests Tigers COE, due to be completed the end of next year.