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Teamlist Tuesday - Rnd 20 Vs Roosters | Thursday 29 July @ Mackay

Poupou Escobar

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84,864
Like Wally Lewis, Sterlo was too naturally gifted to understand how lesser players work. Finding the right pass was easy for the likes of Sterlo. Less easy for a couple of halves with forty years and fifty NRL games between them. The reason defenders come hard at playmakers is because pressure forces errors. "Just pass the ball ffs" is shit advice from Sterlo. It's the kind of thing you'd say.

"Relatively simple and effective ways to respond to it" ffs. If it's so easy to beat it why do teams waste their effort with quick line speed, or even 'quick line speed'?
 

Gazzamatta

Coach
Messages
14,360
Like Wally Lewis, Sterlo was too naturally gifted to understand how lesser players work. Finding the right pass was easy for the likes of Sterlo. Less easy for a couple of halves with forty years and fifty NRL games between them. The reason defenders come hard at playmakers is because pressure forces errors. "Just pass the ball ffs" is shit advice from Sterlo. It's the kind of thing you'd say.

"Relatively simple and effective ways to respond to it" ffs. If it's so easy to beat it why do teams waste their effort with quick line speed, or even 'quick line speed'?
I think Sterlo was referring to spreading the defence and not deliberately and constantly running into 4 forward defenders in position and waiting for the attacker to arrive. Some of those efforts achieved little other than fatigue our runners. Which translated into 2 simple trys conceded. Just mine and Sterlos opinion of cause.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
84,864
I think Sterlo was referring to spreading the defence and not deliberately and constantly running into 4 forward defenders in position and waiting for the attacker to arrive. Some of those efforts achieved little other than fatigue our runners. Which translated into 2 simple trys conceded. Just mine and Sterlos opinion of cause.
They also fatigued the defence, which is why we scored one, almost two tries in the last ten minutes. If we had shifted the ball into offside edge defence we would've made even more errors and the game might've been over by half time, like when we played St George.

We had an off game, probably with an eye toward the following weeks. You can't be up every week (Melbourne and Penrith only won by a try against lesser opposition) and we aren't that much better than Canberra that we can fail to match their intensity and expect to win. Don't read too much into the result. It was a learning experience for our young blokes, nothing more. Sterlo is in the media. He has to say something, and like Arthur's said, he's entitled to.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,480
Like Wally Lewis, Sterlo was too naturally gifted to understand how lesser players work. Finding the right pass was easy for the likes of Sterlo. Less easy for a couple of halves with forty years and fifty NRL games between them. The reason defenders come hard at playmakers is because pressure forces errors. "Just pass the ball ffs" is shit advice from Sterlo. It's the kind of thing you'd say.

"Relatively simple and effective ways to respond to it" ffs. If it's so easy to beat it why do teams waste their effort with quick line speed, or even 'quick line speed'?

Relatively simple for a team that has the calibre of players that we do and are in the top 4. You know, SOO players, a captain that has at least shown that he isn't a total pot plant. Mammoth sized players that if they were to be drilled and trained for all scenarios that occur during games would know in an instant that they are getting belted up the middle and they need to go to plan "X" or "Y" or whatever else that they have been training all summer and during the season for just this case. You know like when the Dragons did the exact thing(which our coaches and players didn't learn a thing from) and use the ball instead of tucking it under their arm and getting belted or passing without purpose to no one that is in a better position them themselves.

In other words having a plan or two that they can execute that will break up the compressed defense. Our boppers are big, at the very least it would be smarter to run a Paulo type out wide with the better chance of an offload against an offside outside back like Croker to deal with and the possible offload then just running it one out in the middle third where we were being man handled or passing, passing, passing without purpose .

I'm not an NRL coach but just that play alone, executed quickly and effectively would have given us more space back on the inside if we kept at it because the defense in the middle would have had to go chasing and protect Croker. We then could have switched it up again and worked the middle with short inside passes and support, but this all needs speed and great execution that we need to have trained hours and hours and hours during the off season and during the season as well. Every man needs to know his job and do it well. It isn't all that hard if you train for it and they all know their role, decoys and so forth.

They need to be able to work out which player is the most vulnerable and work out ways to isolate and work on multiple plays to get to the point where they have that player exactly where they want him. Your telling me we have a top 4 team roster and we couldn't work out a way to exploit Sam Williams and without Wighton or Papalii on the field? FFS!

I don't care that Moses was out of the team. We were playing the Raiders without their best half. If we train properly, then it shouldn't matter, D. Brown and Gutho should have been able to execute simple plays to break up Canberra's stifling defense that was only dominant because we couldn't work out how to move the ball away from where the defenders were already anticipating us to run the ball before the play the ball was even executed. We are so predictable it just makes an enthusiastic defense even more prepared and committed because you aren't throwing any curve balls at them. They already know what you are going to do before you do it.

Mate I tell you what, go find B. Smith and see what he has to say about this. He may just surprise you. Maybe one pep talk wasn't enough. Maybe two might do the trick and then you can back and really school us all.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,480
I think Sterlo was referring to spreading the defence and not deliberately and constantly running into 4 forward defenders in position and waiting for the attacker to arrive. Some of those efforts achieved little other than fatigue our runners. Which translated into 2 simple trys conceded. Just mine and Sterlos opinion of cause.

Spot on mate.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,480
They also fatigued the defence, which is why we scored one, almost two tries in the last ten minutes. If we had shifted the ball into offside edge defence we would've made even more errors and the game might've been over by half time, like when we played St George.

We had an off game, probably with an eye toward the following weeks. You can't be up every week (Melbourne and Penrith only won by a try against lesser opposition) and we aren't that much better than Canberra that we can fail to match their intensity and expect to win. Don't read too much into the result. It was a learning experience for our young blokes, nothing more. Sterlo is in the media. He has to say something, and like Arthur's said, he's entitled to.

Mate he said what he said because he was so frustrated with our stupidity.
 

Poupou Escobar

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84,864
at the very least it would be smarter to run a Paulo type out wide
The Canberra defence would've been on him before he caught the ball. That's the whole point of 'fast line speed'. It's why they say you need to earn the right to shift the ball. Don't you know anything? Against high intensity defence you just need to take your medicine until they slow down. It takes a lot more juice for an entire defensive line to get up quick every tackle than it does for runners to get belted one at a time.
I'm not an NRL coach but just that play alone, executed quickly and effectively would have given us more space back on the inside if we kept at it because the defense in the middle would have had to go chasing and protect Croker. We then could have switched it up again and worked the middle with short inside passes and support, but this all needs speed and great execution that we need to have trained hours and hours and hours during the off season and during the season as well. Every man needs to know his job and do it well.
What you're describing is a highly contingent game plan that is beyond most modern halves, especially a couple of blokes averaging 20 years of age. Maybe plodder Townsend could make it work, but for most modern playmakers gameplans need to be simple. If they're capable of eyes up footy then it's the players' call. The coach doesn't control them from up in the stands like he's playing Rugby League Live 4.
Your telling me we have a top 4 team roster
No, we have a top six roster, and that's only with Moses on the field. Without him we are mid table.
I don't care that Moses was out of the team. We were playing the Raiders without their best half.
That would explain why it was an even match.
 
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Gary Gutful

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Messages
51,898
Relatively simple for a team that has the calibre of players that we do and are in the top 4. You know, SOO players, a captain that has at least shown that he isn't a total pot plant. Mammoth sized players that if they were to be drilled and trained for all scenarios that occur during games would know in an instant that they are getting belted up the middle and they need to go to plan "X" or "Y" or whatever else that they have been training all summer and during the season for just this case. You know like when the Dragons did the exact thing(which our coaches and players didn't learn a thing from) and use the ball instead of tucking it under their arm and getting belted or passing without purpose to no one that is in a better position them themselves.

In other words having a plan or two that they can execute that will break up the compressed defense. Our boppers are big, at the very least it would be smarter to run a Paulo type out wide with the better chance of an offload against an offside outside back like Croker to deal with and the possible offload then just running it one out in the middle third where we were being man handled or passing, passing, passing without purpose .

I'm not an NRL coach but just that play alone, executed quickly and effectively would have given us more space back on the inside if we kept at it because the defense in the middle would have had to go chasing and protect Croker. We then could have switched it up again and worked the middle with short inside passes and support, but this all needs speed and great execution that we need to have trained hours and hours and hours during the off season and during the season as well. Every man needs to know his job and do it well. It isn't all that hard if you train for it and they all know their role, decoys and so forth.

They need to be able to work out which player is the most vulnerable and work out ways to isolate and work on multiple plays to get to the point where they have that player exactly where they want him. Your telling me we have a top 4 team roster and we couldn't work out a way to exploit Sam Williams and without Wighton or Papalii on the field? FFS!

I don't care that Moses was out of the team. We were playing the Raiders without their best half. If we train properly, then it shouldn't matter, D. Brown and Gutho should have been able to execute simple plays to break up Canberra's stifling defense that was only dominant because we couldn't work out how to move the ball away from where the defenders were already anticipating us to run the ball before the play the ball was even executed. We are so predictable it just makes an enthusiastic defense even more prepared and committed because you aren't throwing any curve balls at them. They already know what you are going to do before you do it.

Mate I tell you what, go find B. Smith and see what he has to say about this. He may just surprise you. Maybe one pep talk wasn't enough. Maybe two might do the trick and then you can back and really school us all.
He’s no Sterlo, but Matty John’s has been critical of us in the past. When we are under the pump we tend to spread it wide and hope we’ll get round them and then just get swallowed up.

I agree though. Some variety and less predictability would help. Getting to the edges (on both sides) is important. As long as it doesn’t result in us crabbing. We still need to be advancing the ball forward.
 

Poupou Escobar

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84,864
Mate he said what he said because he was so frustrated with our stupidity.
I agree we aren't a smart team, and it's all about the brains we have (or don't have) on the field. I said as much less than a week ago:
Not all players have the same level of skill or even the same strengths, even between players in the same position. For us this means we have a very simple (i.e. limited options) game plan to suit our dumb/inexperienced spine. We play to our strengths, and that is good coaching.
 

Gazzamatta

Coach
Messages
14,360
They also fatigued the defence, which is why we scored one, almost two tries in the last ten minutes. If we had shifted the ball into offside edge defence we would've made even more errors and the game might've been over by half time, like when we played St George.

We had an off game, probably with an eye toward the following weeks. You can't be up every week (Melbourne and Penrith only won by a try against lesser opposition) and we aren't that much better than Canberra that we can fail to match their intensity and expect to win. Don't read too much into the result. It was a learning experience for our young blokes, nothing more. Sterlo is in the media. He has to say something, and like Arthur's said, he's entitled to.
While Sterlo is most certainly media, he is also a former legend and a fan of our Eels. I dont think he is trying to be controversial. He is expressing genuine concerns to which BA obviously disagrees which is his right. Its probably why BA conceded to allow Johns on board and not Sterlo.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,480
He’s no Sterlo, but Matty John’s has been critical of us in the past. When we are under the pump we tend to spread it wide and hope we’ll get round them and then just get swallowed up.

I agree though. Some variety and less predictability would help. Getting to the edges (on both sides) is important. As long as it doesn’t result in us crabbing. We still need to be advancing the ball forward.

There is spreading the ball wide and then there is spreading the ball wide. They both sound the same but it's the WAY you do it that makes all the difference.

Crabbing is what we do now. Our coaching is letting us down and if people like you and pou can't seem to see that, well sorry I can't do much more then what I have already said.

Lets just watch what happens tonight. Lets hope we somehow have learnt to pass a little better and we don't fall into the Chooks unexpected awesome ambush of up in your face defense that no one is expecting to happen.
 

Gary Gutful

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Messages
51,898
While Sterlo is most certainly media, he is also a former legend and a fan of our Eels. I dont think he is trying to be controversial. He is expressing genuine concerns to which BA obviously disagrees which is his right. Its probably why BA conceded to allow Johns on board and not Sterlo.
BA said ‘he’s entitled to his opinion’ because he didn’t want to make it a media issue.

You don’t know whether BA agrees or disagrees with Sterlo because he didn’t provide an answer.

As for your speculation about appointing Johns instead of Sterlo. It relies on the assumption that Sterlo was an option. It also relies on the assumption that we didn’t ask Sterlo. It also relies on the assumption that Sterlo is a better option than Johns. I’m not sure you can safely make any of those assumptions.
 

Gary Gutful

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Messages
51,898
There is spreading the ball wide and then there is spreading the ball wide. They both sound the same but it's the WAY you do it that makes all the difference.

Crabbing is what we do now. Our coaching is letting us down and if people like you and pou can't seem to see that, well sorry I can't do much more then what I have already said.

Lets just watch what happens tonight. Lets hope we somehow have learnt to pass a little better and we don't fall into the Chooks unexpected awesome ambush of up in your face defense that no one is expecting to happen.
Can we just clarify something? The first position that was put forward by many people including yourself is that we don’t do something because of bad coaching.

I am not taking the reverse position and suggesting that it is all down to the players. I am merely pointing out the folly of laying all of the blame on the coach. We are where we are as a result of both the coach and the players.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,480
I agree we aren't a smart team, and it's all about the brains we have (or don't have) on the field. I said as much less than a week ago:
You also said earlier this year -

Croft was good enough to play in a grand final. He's better than plenty of halves.

Hughes hasn't 'stepped up', he has been playing fourth fiddle to Smith/Munster/Papenhuyzen. Now with Smith gone, Hughes is still the least important member of the Melbourne spine. Do you think he would do anything to solve Brisbane's problems? He's at the Storm because he's good enough and cheap enough to fit into the rest of the team.

Which is still better then what Croft was for Melbourne or do you think you know better then Bellyache?

What? Bellyache has a salary cap to deal with, same as every other coach. Sometimes you don't sign/keep the best player at every position, because they don't all fit under the cap. Do you think he let Cronk go because he didn't rate him? ffs merkin

Like I said at the time the reason he let Cronk go was because Cronk wanted to move up to Sydney to be with his Fiancé now wife at the time, which everyone knew about but you apparently. In the end though Bellamy made the right call and kept the better player in Hughes. He then brought the best out of him within a couple of seasons of intense training and focus. He now is a player that can execute a desired game plan even when Munster or Grant are not there to help him.

Like I said, you have no idea. Ask Bellamy if Hughes has stepped up or not? Oh that's right he only heaped massive praise on him a few weeks ago and that he is close to the best half in the game only behind Cleary. I wonder why he let Croft go and kept Hughes?

Like I said, with the right coaching you can get the talented players who need the right guidance and direction to fulfill their inner talent and reach its upper limits. We have so many players that fall under this category it isn't funny. We need better coaches. BA needs to realise his limitations and surround himself appropriately.
 
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TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,480
Can we just clarify something? The first position that was put forward by many people including yourself is that we don’t do something because of bad coaching.

I am not taking the reverse position and suggesting that it is all down to the players. I am merely pointing out the folly of laying all of the blame on the coach. We are where we are as a result of both the coach and the players.
Of course it's not all the coaches fault, but he hasn't addressed our obvious limitations with the ball and the buck stops with him. We have very good players that I believe if were coached better would then be able to execute different plays when the main base structure and game plan isn't working.
 
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