TWO new Brisbane teams

[jim_57]

perth to Sydney is only half hour more than Auckland to Sydney, without the international hassle at the airport. in 2016 I flew it 38 times for work in 10 months. It’s no great hardship.

Also depends on the lifestyle people prefer. Playing in Perth you could afford a lot nicer/bigger living and probably less time in traffic to/from training compared to Sydney & Melbourne. Players also wouldn’t be living in the spotlight like Sydney & Brisbane, whilst not having the problems regional clubs have being a large capital city.

Weigh that up against 8-10 hours on a plane 12-15 times a year, I’d look long and hard at it.

 

[Jamberoo]

At the very least, the NRL needs to immediately just schedule say 4 games in Perth and 4 in Adelaide every year nonstop for years to come just to keep promoting the game, setting up a fanbase, pathways, etc....like how the NFL schedules London games, and soon venturing to Getmany etc.

Yes this is the obvious and easy first step. If crowds are strong, ratings are increasing and there is some corporate, community and grassroots support, then you will have a better understand of whether a team is feasible five to ten years down the track.

 

[MugaB]

Yes this is the obvious and easy first step. If crowds are strong, ratings are increasing and there is some corporate, community and grassroots support, then you will have a better understand of whether a team is feasible five to ten years down the track.

Who plays there? Random 8 home clubs, missing out their own home games, or should the NRL offset some monetary sum to gift the home club to play there against one of their lower rated sides

 

[Perth Red]

Yes this is the obvious and easy first step. If crowds are strong, ratings are increasing and there is some corporate, community and grassroots support, then you will have a better understand of whether a team is feasible five to ten years down the track.

It’s interesting to see on social media that the fans attitude here is changing. Ten years ago when fans thought we were building towards a team and wanted to show the nrl the support we sold out games no problem, weather permitting. Since Vlandys waste of money comments there’s a real turn around in feeling towards the nrl here with many fans now feeling we’re just a cash cow for Sydney teams looking to boost their income. I think that frustration will only grow if we dont get the 18th spot and that could be it for RL here in years to come, especially if union ever gets its act together with a decent competition for the Force to be in.

 

[Jamberoo]

No local players, no second team in the state to allow for an extra week not having to travel, no adelaide teams for a lesser flight time occasionally. My friend in perth told me a lot of the non western australian afl players leave after a few years fed up with the travel and so now the clubs mostly only draft w.a born players. Not sure if it's right or not but there will be next to no local players to choose from for a perth nrl site.

This is not right. There are 90 AFL players based in Perth. About half from WA. Each year, maybe one or two players originally from the east want to return, but there might be one or two players playing in the east who want to return to WA. So it evens out and is not a factor.

A Perth NRL team would be successful off field in terms of crowds, etc, but whether that would lead to biggers ratings (maybe) or an increase in participation (maybe) is unknown. Melbourne has had only slight increases in that regard despite 23 years as one of the top clubs. But Perth only has two AFL clubs, Eagles by far the biggest. You play most home games the weekends that the Eagles are not playing. With a half decent team I reckon you would sell out 20K most weeks. Playing the first game of the season and any finals @ Optus Stadium you would have crowds averages in the top four.

If you actually want to grow participation and the talent pool, you need both a top down (NRL club) and bottom up (volunteer driven community based programs) approaches. That is where RL has struggled in Melbourne - there are limited opportunities for kids to try/play RL. E.g. there is not a RL club within 15 - 20kms of AAMI Park. You need hundreds of passionate volunteers, and/or tens of millions of dollars to grow grass roots footy in a new market. Unfortunately for RL in NSW & Qld, the AFL has both, and you could argue that the NRL has neither (outside of NSW/Qld).

So, it depends on what you are trying to achieve. If it is a national profile, more eyeballs, bigger TV deal, more money in the game and a chance to compete on level footing with AFL, then Perth, and possibly Adelaide to follow, are where you expand. If you are simply aiming to protect participation and grass roots, you take the safe option of Brisbane 3. But whilst this may lock in RL as easily the number one football code in NSW/Qld, it probably also locks in forever being the number two football code in Australia.

Team 18 must be Perth.

 

[Colk]

Brilliant overview Jamberoo.

As a Storm supporter, can you explain the reason why there is such low participation rates in Vic. Is it because the Storm have concentrated exclusively on the Sunshine Coast? Do they need to have the NRL step in and fund the development (which I think the NRL should do for all junior development in any case)?

 

[Perth Red]

Brilliant overview Jamberoo.

As a Storm supporter, can you explain the reason why there is such low participation rates in Vic. Is it because the Storm have concentrated exclusively on the Sunshine Coast? Do they need to have the NRL step in and fund the development (which I think the NRL should do for all junior development in any case)?

Tbh if you took away league club funding how many traditional nrl clubs would be spending big on jnr development at a grass roots level? pretty much none. It shouldn’t be the job of an nrl club to be getting kids to play rugby league in large numbers (other than promotion), that is the job of the ARL commission and state bodies. It’s the job of an nrl club to pick the very best of those kids and turn them into professional players. If you added the money afl spends on increasing awareness and participation rates in qlnd and nsw compared to money nrl spends in vic, wa and sa it would be around $100 million a year compared to $3million a year. There in lies the problem!

for Storm there simply isn’t enough kids playing rugby league in melbourne for them to be able to find enough talent to develop, hence why they have to partner with a qlnd area who do have lots of kids.

we need to stop thinking it’s the nrl clubs job to grow participation rates, it’s much much more complicated and expensive than an nrl club can do on their own.

 

[xe_kilroy]

WA is a different breed of Aussie to Victorians imo. Vics are very touchy about their game and theres always been a bias. Whereas WA'ans are more inclusive. Aren't juniors numbers rising in WA due to RU? That would show theres hope for a Perth development and expansion plan. Dunno about SA, they also seem a bit like Vics to me, touchy about their game, but probably the last 30-40 yrs of the downfall of the SANFL as the VFL dominated SA'ans probably more ok to have a RL team to call their own too

 

[Perth Red]

WA is a different breed of Aussie to Victorians imo. Vics are very touchy about their game and theres always been a bias. Whereas WA'ans are more inclusive. Aren't juniors numbers rising in WA due to RU? That would show theres hope for a Perth development and expansion plan. Dunno about SA, they also seem a bit like Vics to me, touchy about their game, but probably the last 30-40 yrs of the downfall of the SANFL as the VFL dominated SA'ans probably more ok to have a RL team to call their own

part of that is perth has a large % of people from other places originally and that leads to being more open minded about sport and also more parochial about supporting all perth teams. There’s only soccer that doesnt get great crowds and that’s largely due to the owner and performance of the club over the years.

 

[Colk]

Tbh if you took away league club funding how many traditional nrl clubs would be spending big on jnr development at a grass roots level? pretty much none. It shouldn’t be the job of an nrl club to be getting kids to play rugby league in large numbers (other than promotion), that is the job of the ARL commission and state bodies. It’s the job of an nrl club to pick the very best of those kids and turn them into professional players. If you added the money afl spends on increasing awareness and participation rates in qlnd and nsw compared to money nrl spends in vic, wa and sa it would be around $100 million a year compared to $3million a year. There in lies the problem!

for Storm there simply isn’t enough kids playing rugby league in melbourne for them to be able to find enough talent to develop, hence why they have to partner with a qlnd area who do have lots of kids.

we need to stop thinking it’s the nrl clubs job to grow participation rates, it’s much much more complicated and expensive than an nrl club can do on their own.

Exactly and which goes to my point about a seperate independent body running development instead of having the clubs do so; which is what happens in most other sports. The idea that you would leave it in the hands of the stakeholders most unlikely to be able to pay for the development or to which is counterproductive to them as a club and their immediate on field success (Storm in Vic) defies logic.

 

[Perth Red]

I

Exactly and which goes to my point about a seperate independent body running development instead of having the clubs do so; which is what happens in most other sports. The idea that you would leave it in the hands of the stakeholders most unlikely to be able to pay for the development or to which is counterproductive to them as a club and their immediate on field success (Storm in Vic) defies logic.

it’s supposed to be the states leagues that hold responsibility for amateur RL under the watch and funding of the nrl. Problem is there is little accountability, funding or strategy driving it so in a vacuum everyone is off doing there own things.
couple of things that has happened which helps is all of the DO’s and their programs were brought under the nrlhq and the launch of league stars which is supposed to be our version of aus kick, but in true half arsee rl fashion gets only a fraction of the resources Afl put into theirs.
other problem I’ve got with league stars is it doesn’t reflect that it’s linked to the nrl. The mech pack, website etc doesn’t have any nrl branding, unlike Auskick which not only has afl branding all over it but includes a jnr membership to your local afl club!

 

[Jamberoo]

Who plays there? Random 8 home clubs, missing out their own home games, or should the NRL offset some monetary sum to gift the home club to play there against one of their lower rated sides

Eight clubs give up home games for Magic Road. Another eight do same to grow the game. The price has to be right of course.

 

[Jamberoo]

Brilliant overview Jamberoo.

As a Storm supporter, can you explain the reason why there is such low participation rates in Vic. Is it because the Storm have concentrated exclusively on the Sunshine Coast? Do they need to have the NRL step in and fund the development (which I think the NRL should do for all junior development in any case)?

I will give you one example of how AFL help their participation grow. If a half a dozen passionate AFL fans decide to form a football club in a NSW or Qld town (say, Nowra), it is as simple as this. They contact Hawthorn, say they are happy to be known as the Nowra Hawks, and Hawthorn will send them 20 sherries, 20 playing kits, their logo, and sometimes, send players for clinics. In my local part of Melbourne the local girls teams was just sent the same by Gold Coast. They are now the Whitehorse Suns. If you want to start up an Auskick Centre, the AFL send a bunch of gear, and usually players visit most clubs. It is why there are hundreds of Auskick centres across NSW and Qld - the AFL makes it really , really easy.

I read on here that the entire budget for Junior RL development in Victoria is $1m. The AFL spends more than 30 times that north of the Murray, not including what their clubs also spend (probably more given the four academies and dozens of full time staff).
So you need a combination of dozens and dozens of passionate volunteers, and millions and millions of dollars each year. This the NRL does not have. It is why ex Storm players who stay in Melbourne post career, their kids play AFL, because, unless you live in a budget outer suburb, kids simply have no access to rugby league.

The NRL is not even trying.

 

[The Great Dane]

It’s interesting to see on social media that the fans attitude here is changing. Ten years ago when fans thought we were building towards a team and wanted to show the nrl the support we sold out games no problem, weather permitting. Since Vlandys waste of money comments there’s a real turn around in feeling towards the nrl here with many fans now feeling we’re just a cash cow for Sydney teams looking to boost their income. I think that frustration will only grow if we dont get the 18th spot and that could be it for RL here in years to come, especially if union ever gets its act together with a decent competition for the Force to be in.

Who could have predicted that...

Rent-a-teams are a cancer that aren't good for anybody in the long run.

 

[Dragonwest]

This is not right. There are 90 AFL players based in Perth. About half from WA. Each year, maybe one or two players originally from the east want to return, but there might be one or two players playing in the east who want to return to WA. So it evens out and is not a factor.

A Perth NRL team would be successful off field in terms of crowds, etc, but whether that would lead to biggers ratings (maybe) or an increase in participation (maybe) is unknown. Melbourne has had only slight increases in that regard despite 23 years as one of the top clubs. But Perth only has two AFL clubs, Eagles by far the biggest. You play most home games the weekends that the Eagles are not playing. With a half decent team I reckon you would sell out 20K most weeks. Playing the first game of the season and any finals @ Optus Stadium you would have crowds averages in the top four.

If you actually want to grow participation and the talent pool, you need both a top down (NRL club) and bottom up (volunteer driven community based programs) approaches. That is where RL has struggled in Melbourne - there are limited opportunities for kids to try/play RL. E.g. there is not a RL club within 15 - 20kms of AAMI Park. You need hundreds of passionate volunteers, and/or tens of millions of dollars to grow grass roots footy in a new market. Unfortunately for RL in NSW & Qld, the AFL has both, and you could argue that the NRL has neither (outside of NSW/Qld).

So, it depends on what you are trying to achieve. If it is a national profile, more eyeballs, bigger TV deal, more money in the game and a chance to compete on level footing with AFL, then Perth, and possibly Adelaide to follow, are where you expand. If you are simply aiming to protect participation and grass roots, you take the safe option of Brisbane 3. But whilst this may lock in RL as easily the number one football code in NSW/Qld, it probably also locks in forever being the number two football code in Australia.

Team 18 must be Perth.

Increase in participation rate is far from an unknown. We already have a case study of what happened in Perth in the 90s. Junior and senior clubs were popping up every year. Established clubs were fielding multiple teams in the same age group in juniors. Relaunch Perth and the male participation rate in the state will double back to the levels in 95 and beyond within 2 years. Instantly 90% of the talent we lose to union will rejoin league straight away. It's an absolute no brainer.

 

[Perth Red]

Yes I th

Increase in participation rate is far from an unknown. We already have a case study of what happened in Perth in the 90s. Junior and senior clubs were popping up every year. Established clubs were fielding multiple teams in the same age group in juniors. Relaunch Perth and the male participation rate in the state will double back to the levels in 95 and beyond within 2 years. Instantly 90% of the talent we lose to union will rejoin league straight away. It's an absolute no brainer.

I think people seem to think perth and melbourne are the same in regards to rl presence and interest. WA won the affiliated states comp for over two decades, in the early 90’s the grassroots number here was massive. Just because the presence of the Storm has not led to a significant boost in rl participation in Victoria doesn’t mean WA would be the same.

 

[MugaB]

Yes I th

I think people seem to think perth and melbourne are the same in regards to rl presence and interest. WA won the affiliated states comp for over two decades, in the early 90’s the grassroots number here was massive. Just because the presence of the Storm has not led to a significant boost in rl participation in Victoria doesn’t mean WA would be the same.

No shit they won, they're playing against NT, SA and VIC, but i agree they are more than capable of becoming a 1st grade side soon, the western reds was proof, just unfortunate timing with the ending of the SLwar

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Excellent point. As others have said also it's incomprehensible that only the NRL does not have a WA or SA team. Regardless of AFLs long history in those states, nothing to fear, other sports all have a true national comp with a team from each major city and/or region. Only RL doesn't. And while they may have not needed to, can survive being East Coast centric, the ARLC / NRL ought to realize they do need to plonk a team in WA and SA not only for mere representation, but to expand the game if genuine about growth and expansion, and fighting off RU, pushing against AFL and their expansion east, etc.

At the very least, the NRL needs to immediately just schedule say 4 games in Perth and 4 in Adelaide every year nonstop for years to come just to keep promoting the game, setting up a fanbase, pathways, etc....like how the NFL schedules London games, and soon venturing to Getmany etc.

A couple of Sydney teams should remove the geographic name from their brand and promote themselves to Adelaide and Perth. Bulldogs should keep their geographic location in their name so they can market themselves to Canterbury County in NZ.

Manly could become The Sea Eagles and market itself to the Northern Beaches and Perth. Both regions have lovely beaches and the relationship could guarantee Manly's survival after the Penns stop funding the joint.

Cronulla to become The Sharks and take some games to Adelaide. That will leave three beach-based clubs called "The". There could be an annual competition between the three for the prestigious "The Championship". Only in RL.

 

[MugaB]

A couple of Sydney teams should remove the geographic name from their brand and promote themselves to Adelaide and Perth. Bulldogs should keep their geographic location in their name so they can market themselves to Canterbury County in NZ.

Manly could become The Sea Eagles and market itself to the Northern Beaches and Perth. Both regions have lovely beaches and the relationship could guarantee Manly's survival after the Penns stop funding the joint.

Cronulla to become The Sharks and take some games to Adelaide. That will leave three beach-based clubs called "The". There could be an annual competition between the three for the prestigious "The Championship". Only in RL.

Here we go, this garbage again...
Might aswell, just call yourself the "Bears" and play in Wagga, Perth and Terrigal...
Must be slow news day

 

[Colk]

I think GROTD was joking on that last point. Although why not - we could have 17 clubs representing “The”