The Bears

[T-Boon]

Newcastle is a pretty good study now for generational change/take over. The club is now 30 odd years old. There are still a heap of fans of other clubs here but they are mostly over the age of 45 and the kids for the most part support Newcastle unless their dads were passionate enough about their sydney club to convince them to support that club.

 

[MugaB]

In my opinion Manly taking 3 games there is not as optimal as the Knights taking the area over (unless Manly plan to gradually relocate entirely). The problem with Manly trying to incorporate the CC is that they are obviously different places, there are massive suburbs of sydney and then also wilderness separating the two locations. Nobody from CC would travel to Manly to watch games (certainly not vise versa) where as its only about 45 minutes by train from Gosford to Broadmeadow and if the Knights played a game or 2 at Gosford I would imagine Knights fans would travel on mass.
I guess I am coming from it from the perspective of wanting the Knights to get from 20k crowds to 30k crowds and bigger TV and corporate support which adding a 300k population would do.

Well the current A-league Mariners are currently at brookvale, a partnership between the parties, would maybe get folks to travel, its not exactly ideal, since brookvale isnt on a train line, but a game day express Chatswood/Linfield to Brookvale service could help with that..
I'm more in favour of cultivating a ManlyCC rivalry with the Knights, then a full NewcastleCC take over that may take away crowds from newy, instead of boosting crowds in CC and brooky

 

[T-Boon]

Well the current A-league Mariners are currently at brookvale, a partnership between the parties, would maybe get folks to travel, its not exactly ideal, since brookvale isnt on a train line, but a game day express Chatswood/Linfield to Brookvale service could help with that..
I'm more in favour of cultivating a ManlyCC rivalry with the Knights, then a full NewcastleCC take over that may take away crowds from newy, instead of boosting crowds in CC and brooky

I don't agree but is still solid points and worthy of debate.
With the new north connect I think Newy v Parra should be a great rivalry as Parra to Gosford is less than an hour I believe.

 

[MugaB]

I don't agree but is still solid points and worthy of debate.
With the new north connect I think Newy v Parra should be a great rivalry as Parra to Gosford is less than an hour I believe.

And I have no problems if knights do end up taking it over, i just see an opportunity to push out a bit of sydney into that area ala stgeorge/illawarra doing the 1/2 &1/2, manly could end up doing the same over a decade, they seem to be the right club to do such a thing...
Also being realistic, none of the clubs are going anywhere, so the more sydney clubs spread out the better... i mean i cant justify having the bears reemerge in NSO or NSW for that matter, if they went interstate or NZ then fine..

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Seems like it is the Roosters that are looking to own the CC, not Newcastle or Manly. Problem is though, the Roosters will have one of the best RL grounds in the country so they aren't moving any more than one game a year up there. I think it is more sensible that Manly do with the North and CC what the Dragons are doing with the South and Wollongong.

 

[mongoose]

Newcastle is a pretty good study now for generational change/take over. The club is now 30 odd years old. There are still a heap of fans of other clubs here but they are mostly over the age of 45 and the kids for the most part support Newcastle unless their dads were passionate enough about their sydney club to convince them to support that club.

Similar thing happened in Canberra - before 1982 and for most of the 80s you had mostly fans of Sydney clubs or AFL supporters. Many Kids who grew up there (like myself) in the late 80s and early 90s became Raiders fans. Probably a lot of kids who were in "AFL families" and "Rugby families" too, to the detriment of those codes. Even my own dad wasn't much into League, he followed the SANFL.

 

[T-Boon]

Seems like it is the Roosters that are looking to own the CC, not Newcastle or Manly. Problem is though, the Roosters will have one of the best RL grounds in the country so they aren't moving any more than one game a year up there. I think it is more sensible that Manly do with the North and CC what the Dragons are doing with the South and Wollongong.

Yes. The Roosters attempts in the CC are stupid except for their own benefit in terms of getting the juniors. I doubt their efforts have converted a single fan on the CC to Roosters fans.
As others have said now that they have a great stadium and improving transport in the inner city they should expand to North Sydney and take that area over. Do the trams go to North Sydney? What if you could get on a tram in North Sydney and stay on until Moore Park. Neat.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Yes. The Roosters attempts in the CC are stupid except for their own benefit in terms of getting the juniors. I doubt their efforts have converted a single fan on the CC to Roosters fans.
As others have said now that they have a great stadium and improving transport in the inner city they should expand to North Sydney and take that area over. Do the trams go to North Sydney? What if you could get on a tram in North Sydney and stay on until Moore Park. Neat.

I don't know anything about the tram line in Sydney mate.

 

[Colk]

The trams don’t go from North Sydney (I work in North Sydney). Notwithstanding it is not that hard to go hard to go from North Sydney to the CBD (as there is a direct line) The whole North Sydney will connect even easier once the trains are updated further - there is a fairly comprehensive train infrastructure build in which several new link (limited stop services I guess you want to call them) lines are going to be built. A new one connecting Parra to the Central, one connecting I think Bankstown and that area to Central, one from the North West to North Sydney and the CBD and a line that’ going through the new airport and an area between Parramatta and Penrith (the name of the suburb escapes me unfortunately although it is a good reason for a good Liverpool Station as the new service should go through there if they plan it well)

 

[Perth Red]

The trams don’t go from North Sydney (I work in North Sydney). Notwithstanding it is not that hard to go hard to go from North Sydney to the CBD (as there is a direct line) The whole North Sydney will connect even easier once the trains are updated further - there is a fairly comprehensive train infrastructure build in which several new link (limited stop services I guess you want to call them) lines are going to be built. A new one connecting Parra to the Central, one connecting I think Bankstown and that area to Central, one from the North West to North Sydney and the CBD and a line that’ going through the new airport and an area between Parramatta and Penrith (the name of the suburb escapes me unfortunately although it is a good reason for a good Liverpool Station as the new service should go through there if they plan it well)

Have they finished the one down the main street in the city yet down to the rocks? That seemed to be taking forever when I was regular visitor pre covid!

if all these alleged Bears fans became Swans and Warratahs fans then i guess they didn't find it hard getting to the SFS/SCG!

 

[MugaB]

Yes. The Roosters attempts in the CC are stupid except for their own benefit in terms of getting the juniors. I doubt their efforts have converted a single fan on the CC to Roosters fans.
As others have said now that they have a great stadium and improving transport in the inner city they should expand to North Sydney and take that area over. Do the trams go to North Sydney? What if you could get on a tram in North Sydney and stay on until Moore Park. Neat.

Nope tram only runs from Circular Quay to South Sydney

 

[Colk]

Have they finished the one down the main street in the city yet down to the rocks? That seemed to be taking forever when I was regular visitor pre covid!

if all these alleged Bears fans became Swans and Warratahs fans then i guess they didn't find it hard getting to the SFS/SCG!

Yeah it is finished now. Typical Australian transport decisions - you have a light rail, you get rid of the light rail line and then you build it again at a massively inflated price. Anyway if the Roosters/Manly wanted to attract supporters from North Sydney there shouldn’t be a massive problem to get to SCG/SFS, Brookvale is a lot harder of course. In reality, the Bears should have done this and if they had, they might be still around

 

[RedVee]

Don’t forget that the trams on the Central to Dulwich Hill line are all sidelined due to carriages developing fractures

 

[The Great Dane]

I never said it was unique.

Yet, whether you intend it or not, you're effectively asserting that Cronulla is...

You're saying that because of things that we agree aren't unique that Cronulla would react in a unique way, when they simply wouldn't. That's just wishful thinking on your part.

You obviously do not understand the area or its people.

There's nothing particularly special about Cronulla or it's people.

Generational change is inevitable, and no matter where you are from there's no stopping it. So you can throw as many barbs and talk all the delusional power of the people BS as you like, but if the Sharks went they'd become irrelevant within a generation or two.

It's really no different to music styles, fashion trends, etc, etc.

Souths didn't lie down and they fought their way back.

Pfft they didn't fight their way back in, they got lucky and were saved by a very dodgy court ruling that was instantly overturned and the utter weakness of the NRL in being too scared to kick them straight back out.

It was pretty typical of RL actually, everybody is full of hard talk of letting failed clubs die, then when push comes to shove they all back down. I mean how many times have the Sharks been bailed out when the league supposedly had a "survival of fittest" model? Half a dozen times, maybe more?!

I give them credit, none have changed their rugby league team support. That is more weak than anything, changing teams.

You simply don't know what weakness is if you think that being capable of carrying on after tragedy is weak...

You can put your hypotheticals out there as much as you want, you do not know the Sharks area or its people, they are not like Bears supporters thats for sure.

There're literally hundreds of examples from across the world of how markets react after a beloved sports team folds. There're many examples from RL it's self, roughly half a dozen (depending on how you want to measure it) from the NSWRL/ARL/SL/NRL, and all of those fanbases and markets reacted to losing their teams in roughly the same way.

So if anybody is playing in hypotheticals it's you with your emotional driven BS.

 

[bad boy bubby]

Yet, whether you intend it or not, you're effectively asserting that Cronulla is...

You're saying that because of things that we agree aren't unique that Cronulla would react in a unique way, when they simply wouldn't. That's just wishful thinking on your part.

There's nothing particularly special about Cronulla or it's people.

Generational change is inevitable, and no matter where you are from there's no stopping it. So you can throw as many barbs and talk all the delusional power of the people BS as you like, but if the Sharks went they'd become irrelevant within a generation or two.

It's really no different to music styles, fashion trends, etc, etc.

Pfft they didn't fight their way back in, they got lucky and were saved by a very dodgy court ruling that was instantly overturned and the utter weakness of the NRL in being too scared to kick them straight back out.

It was pretty typical of RL actually, everybody is full of hard talk of letting failed clubs die, then when push comes to shove they all back down. I mean how many times have the Sharks been bailed out when the league supposedly had a "survival of fittest" model? Half a dozen times, maybe more?!

You simply don't know what weakness is if you think that being capable of carrying on after tragedy is weak...

There're literally hundreds of examples from across the world of how markets react after a beloved sports team folds. There're many examples from RL it's self, roughly half a dozen (depending on how you want to measure it) from the NSWRL/ARL/SL/NRL, and all of those fanbases and markets reacted to losing their teams in roughly the same way.

So if anybody is playing in hypotheticals it's you with your emotional driven BS.

You're just trying to assert some type of authority that doesn't exist., and still posting as your own thoughts are truths. That's an issue that you"ll have to deal with, I can merely just point it out. And stop trying to decipher everything I say, you obviously have no idea, so stop trying to put your own mental spin on everything.
Let me straight with you.
If the Sharks collapse from their own faults, then I have no problem with what the NRL do with that licence. This is how the competition is now structured. I also feel that the supporters should not direct their anger at the NRL if this happens, as it will have been the club's fault.
However, if the NRL decides to move Cronulla for no other reason other then that they just deem it, then the NRL deserves what they get in the area.
That goes for every other team as well, on both accounts.
The fact is the Sharks seem to be getting their shit in order, a great deal more than some other clubs. Am I confident that this will be permanent? Hell no. But after following them for 50 years, something definitely feels different to how it has always been. That I cannot explain.
So to put it straight, I am fully aware of my clubs situation. Its only with others who have no idea about the club itself speak shit that I will retort.
Oh, and Norths the are gone from first grade. They I'll never return.

 

[siv]

the only explanation for Central Coast not being rabid Knights fans is laziness an

I beg to differ

As CC resident you do not go to Newcastle, in fact I might go to winneries of the Hunter Valley more

What you gave seen is more of a Greater Sydney feel where people in areas if the city slowly move out. Eg SE inner Sydney move to the Gong, inner west move to Southern highlands, west move to Penrith/Blue Mountains, Ryde ot to Hills, north shore to the coast

Everyone still has strong ties to parents, social, study and work back in Sydney

But as transport improves you are seeing the next generation of moving north to buy a house. But not in Newcastle but west in the Hunter Valley

 

[The Great Dane]

You're just trying to assert some type of authority that doesn't exist., and still posting as your own thoughts are truths. That's an issue that you"ll have to deal with, I can merely just point it out.

I'm not claiming any authority except for having the backing of recorded history, and though I have presented some facts (and if they aren't feel free to refute them) I haven't presented any of my opinions as facts.

And stop trying to decipher everything I say, you obviously have no idea, so stop trying to put your own mental spin on everything.
Let me straight with you.

Let me be straight with you. I think the reason you're so annoyed with me is that you are totally incapable of responding to what I'm saying with a rational argument, hence why you are lashing out emotionally without directly addressing the points I've made.

If the Sharks collapse from their own faults, then I have no problem with what the NRL do with that licence. This is how the competition is now structured. I also feel that the supporters should not direct their anger at the NRL if this happens, as it will have been the club's fault.
However, if the NRL decides to move Cronulla for no other reason other then that they just deem it, then the NRL deserves what they get in the area.
That goes for every other team as well, on both accounts.

Do you honestly believe that Cronulla fans would except the Sharks folding under any circumstances?

I highly, highly, doubt it for two reasons-

1. The vast majority of fans of other clubs that fold don't. Including Bears fans BTW.

2. I saw no evidence that most Cronulla fans would accept it the multiple times the club should have folded if not for being bailed out.

The fact is the Sharks seem to be getting their shit in order, a great deal more than some other clubs. Am I confident that this will be permanent? Hell no. But after following them for 50 years, something definitely feels different to how it has always been. That I cannot explain.
So to put it straight, I am fully aware of my clubs situation. Its only with others who have no idea about the club itself speak shit that I will retort.

The only person whom has been talking 'shit' about clubs is you, and you haven't actually retorted any point that has been made, just gone on emotional rants that have little to nothing to do with anything.

The funny thing is that all my main arguments have nothing to with Cronulla specifically. The Sharks were only the example used because Cronulla was the example used in the post I was initially responding to, and the only reason Cronulla continues to be brought up is because you keep bringing them up.

Oh, and Norths the are gone from first grade. They I'll never return.

Nor should they return!

 

[Foreign Legion]

‘Never say never’: Inside the Bears’ unique expansion push — where nothing is off the table

‘Never say never’: Inside the Bears’ push for NRL return — where nothing is off the table

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[MugaB]

‘Never say never’: Inside the Bears’ unique expansion push — where nothing is off the table

‘Never say never’: Inside the Bears’ push for NRL return — where nothing is off the table

www.foxsports.com.au

They'd be better off going to Adelaide, as Perth could very well get themselves a license of their own, in around another 5-10 years, Adelaide is where the Bears could own without a rival bid or RL presence would upset the applecart, also having a link to sydney would help SANRL even more, to me its a no brainer, they can still have their 4 NSO games, the rest in Adelaide... but even 4 seems too much

 

[Perth Red]

Poor old Bears, just desperate to get a seat at the table. I'd suggest them saying there is a ton of corporate support but then saying the LC will be main sponsor for ten years is not a great strategy! Maybe the NRl needs to sit down with them and the Perth backers to see if its feasible, though I suspect it would go the same way as the last conversation the Bears had with the West. The main problem will be ownership. Bears will no doubt want majority and the WA backers would as well, I can see that being the big stumbling block.

I guess the measure of value of a partnership rather than a stand alone WA club would be:

1. Is it likely to generate significant membership and merch sales in Sydney
2. Is it going to attract more corporate interest from WA and NSW
3. Will it add to the pot of investor money to establish the club and see it through any hard times


Dont really see the Jnr thing as that important as in reality we could partner with any Qlnd cup or NSW cup club for that without taking on their branding.